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Ricardo Jol
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    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help

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    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Empty Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help

    Post by L r d Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:38 pm

    In the last two games Chelsea have picked up a dozen bookings and the reputation of a side that is losing control. Ashley Cole has come out to say that Chelsea are being picked on because they are successful - as Arsenal were when he was there, but is this reasonable? Most commentators would suggest the opposite - that the top clubs are favoured by the top referees. But for the clubs who need to win every game it is difficult to retain composure and a sense of proportion when there is so much pressure and attention paid to every game.

    The two incidents at Spurs that were so difficult to justify must have riled the Chelsea players, and while it is difficult to accept that Graham Poll won't discuss the incidents - it is his right.

    Firstly the disallowed Didier Drogba goal. The Chelsea players like to get physical for set-pieces even if they are not actually looking to score themselves. Drogba appeared to do nothing himself that deserved the goal not to stand, but there were other players obstructing and harrassing. Nine times out of ten this goal would have stood because Drogba did nothing wrong - but the referee was within his rights to look at the actions of other players.

    Secondly the second John Terry booking. In the last two games a number of Chelsea players have been booked for dissent, often along with this ridiculous modern affectation of arm flapping. And I think that Poll eventually lost patience with Terry after an hour or so of Terry 'discussing' every aspect of the game and making a number of niggly challenges. Like for the Drogba goal, Terry was fouling an opposition defender before being sent off. And this time he also ran into another one. None of these offences on their own warranted a booking but perhaps Poll was adding up a series of incidents and had decided on a 'one more and you're off' strategy. Given the sang froid displayed by Terry when he was sent off, perhaps Poll had even told him as much.

    Problems for Chelsea will mount if they fail to improve their discipline and the current Chelsea side is sliding towards confrontation whenever a game is tight. Such is the quality of the Chelsea side, tight games are not the norm. But still Chelsea have been fined three times under Mourinho for bad behaviour. That is not to say that other clubs have a spotless history.

    Manchester United have also had a bad reputation for surrounding referees - a reputation that probably peaked seven seasons ago on 29 January 2000 when Roy Keane, Nicky Butt, Gary Neville, Jaap Stam and David Beckham ran towards a back-pedelling Andy D'Urso after the award of a penalty to Middlesbrough. After that incident United players were fined by the club and their behaviour noticably improved.

    The allegations that Poll told Chelsea players that they "needed to be taught a lesson" and "your discipline is out of order" will soon be proven or otherwise as all referees comments during a match are recorded. If these comments prove to be bogus how will people trust what Chelsea players say is happening?

    Referees make mistakes, but if players intimidate and question everything then the additional pressure will ensure that the mistakes will increase. Perhaps we need to regress to the position where only the team captains can question a decision - and the ridiculousness of that scenario might jolt a few people.

    Perhaps Chelsea players should take a leaf out of Jose Mourinho's book. In the aftermath of defeat at Tottenham he embraced Martin Jol and wished him luck. This season Mourinho has made a sincere effort to relate to his fellow managers, hugging Martin O'Neill and even talking to Arsene Wenger. Also his obvious discomfort in criticising the referee over two decisions - which taken in isolation must have been very hard to take - showed his intelligence. Mourinho simply didn't want to be seen to criticise in defeat in case there was a whiff of sour grapes. And his reticence was applaudable.

    Mourinho will be aware that players need to get what they can from any referee - and for the moment referees will be very hard on Chelsea. Expect Chelsea to improve their discipline almost immediately - it is the clever thing to do.

    Antony Melvin
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:41 pm

    I've lost a lot of respect for Chelsea, there basically trying to sour Poll's name because they've lost a game of football and had there captain sent off, rightly in my view.

    Also its going to be hard to brush off there reputation as well. We surrounded the ref like the article says 6 years ago and we still haven't lost that tag.
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    Post by Roger Hunt Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:45 pm

    Parks Lives wrote:I've lost a lot of respect for Chelsea, there basically trying to sour Poll's name because they've lost a game of football and had there captain sent off, rightly in my view.

    Also its going to be hard to brush off there reputation as well. We surrounded the ref like the article says 6 years ago and we still haven't lost that tag.

    Every decision, every game, for years and years....
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:47 pm

    Believe what you wanna believe, Keane and Fergie both blasted the players about that and it hasn't been as bad at all.
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    Post by Roger Hunt Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:50 pm

    Parks Lives wrote:Believe what you wanna believe, Keane and Fergie both blasted the players about that and it hasn't been as bad at all.

    Was the worst culprit most of the time. It went on for years, and only got stamped on when the press finally started to make an issue of it.
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:53 pm

    'of the time' yes he was bad. However he realised from whatever means it had to stop and it did and he was one of the one's who told the players so.
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    Post by Roger Hunt Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:57 pm

    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref5
    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref4
    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref3
    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref2
    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref
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    Post by Saintsar Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:58 pm

    The principal thing for me about this tendency to whinge and moan is that it defeats the so-called siege mentality of the club. Jose tries to set up his team to believe that the world is against them, as a means to bringing out their fighting spirit. But they frequently do things like this - the Gallas accusations, tapping up Arnesen, the Obi Mikel affair, tapping up Cole - where they either create or fuel their own problems, and actively tarnish their own reputation.
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    Post by L r d Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:58 pm

    KEANO KEANO
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:00 pm

    Roger_Hunt wrote:Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref5
    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref4
    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref3
    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref2
    Chelsea: Shouting at the referee won't help Roykeaneref

    So what? A few random pictures. Every team moans at refs, I wish we did it less but we are not the worse anymore, not by a long shot.
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    Post by poiuy1 Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:02 pm

    Has anyone noticed this season how we havent really been affected by refs decisions, its a sign of how well we have been playing
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    Post by L r d Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:03 pm

    I think it's more because all the descisions have gone for you, not against Smile
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:05 pm

    That Rooney bastard is also only shouting at the ref....
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    Post by L r d Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:06 pm

    ricardojol wrote:That Rooney bastard is also only shouting at the ref....

    Not true hes shouting at loads of people
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    Post by Roger Hunt Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:06 pm

    Parks Lives wrote: So what? A few random pictures. Every team moans at refs, I wish we did it less but we are not the worse anymore, not by a long shot.

    I just typed Keane+referee into Google Images, try it.

    Moaning at a ref from 5 yards away is different from intimidating him at arms length or closer.

    As you say, you're better than you used to be. But when you did it, it was OK, now you're complaining about Chelsea doing the same thing.
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:08 pm

    I said it was ok?

    Parks Lives wrote:'of the time' yes he was bad.
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:08 pm

    ricardojol wrote:That Rooney bastard is also only shouting at the ref....

    He is our worse. ok

    & there are times I'd wish he'd shut up.
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    Post by Roger Hunt Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:09 pm

    All teams have mouthy players.

    It's different when you're captain though.
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:11 pm

    Vieira was every bit as bad and was still doing it regularly in his final season.

    Terry and Chelsea are now the worse though.
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    Post by Roger Hunt Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:13 pm

    I agree Arsenal were as bad at times.

    I guess my point is we're all partisan about it, we all think our team are right to vigorously protest about bad refereeing, the other side are just a bunch of thugs intimidating the poor officials.
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:17 pm

    Do I have to point out again, I don't think it was a good thing. My old man was a ref and I know the stick they get (more from the media than the players). I didn't like the Keane - D'Urso incident and I do wish at times Rooney would shut his mouth.

    I just think we have improved a fair bit.

    Chelsea at the moment do it far to much.
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    Post by robert Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:24 pm

    The thing that made me laugh about this whole incident was Cole. How can you start every sentence with "i'm not moaning but" then go on to say some vitriol about Poll.

    Hilarious.
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    Post by fcb Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:49 am

    I know it sounds like sour grapes, but hopefully after some of the admissions in this thread, people will stop bluntly calling Barcelona and our players cheats for similar actions.
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:57 am

    keano has every right to go up to the ref, as he's the captain. eating toast so im gonna reply latter
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    Post by Roger Hunt Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:07 am

    Keano does have every right to go up to the ref eating toast, it's when he goes up to the ref shouting uncontrollably, eyes and veins popping, and spraying spit everywhere, that he looks a tit. ok
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    Post by Saintsar Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:16 am

    As I said after the Chelsea-Barca game, the answer is to only let the captains talk to the referee, and book anyone who breaks the rule, but tell the ref not to book anyone specifically for that - do it via TV replays to see who is involved.
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:43 am

    @ Saints

    That's what they do in the U.S. Sports - Ice Hockey or Basketball for example. But they are far more stop-start than football, so I'm not keen on the TV replay during the match.

    Captains should be able to liase with the officials.
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    Post by Saintsar Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:09 pm

    TeamSpirit™ wrote:@ Saints

    That's what they do in the U.S. Sports - Ice Hockey or Basketball for example. But they are far more stop-start than football, so I'm not keen on the TV replay during the match.

    Captains should be able to liase with the officials.


    Sure sure, I meant replays after the game. If you booked every player who was involved in such incidents during the game then half of all football games would be destroyed by no one being able to tackle through fear of getting a second yellow. The referee should maintain authority during the game, but if s/he can't see everything then others can still apply the rules and just punishments after the game.

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