Lets all hail Wenger

He signs lots of young good players, maybe too many?

Forwards: Henry + Adebayor > Baptista, Van Persie, Aliadiere, Walcott, Bendtner, Lupoli*, Vela, Fonte.

Centre Midfield: Gilberto + Fabregas > Baptista, Flamini, Diaby, Denilson, Song, Muamba, Merida, Barazite.

How many of these players will still be at Arsenal in 3/4 years time?

Is it that difficult to sign lots of young, sometimes foreign, players from other clubs and then hope one or two turn out to be good?

Do you think we will see more and more clubs doing this? Liverpool have recently signed a lot of young players.

* leaving in the summer.

I'm starting to think Wenger prefers praise to trophies.

Batman wrote:He signs lots of young good players, maybe too many?

Forwards: Henry + Adebayor > Baptista, Van Persie, Aliadiere, Walcott, Bendtner, Lupoli*, Vela, Fonte.

Centre Midfield: Gilberto + Fabregas > Baptista, Flamini, Diaby, Denilson, Song, Muamba, Merida, Barazite.

* leaving in the summer.

I don't see the problem with signing lots of youngsters. Its about having a good first team with a strong youth team behind it to choose from in case of injury, suspensions or resting players. With regards to our strikers Lupoli and Aliadiere will leave this summer for pastures new. Bendtner will become fourth choice. I imagine Vela will spend another season in Salamanca. Rui Fonte is only 16, he is nowhere near the first team. Wenger likes having young strikers in the hope they turn out to be a Nicolas Anelka.

Midfield is the area that is heavily congested. Gilberto, Cesc, Baptista, Flamini, Diaby and Denilson are all fighting for two places. However saying that Denilson has played a lot on the flanks for us this season. Alex Song was out of favour here but on his first game at Charlton he was awesome - That underlines our strength. Muamba and Merida look to have strong futures. But only one will make it. Nacer Barazite has played as a winger for us this season in the reserves, his idol is Robert Pires.

The bottom line is that the strongest survive.

Batman wrote:How many of these players will still be at Arsenal in 3/4 years time?

Gilberto and possibly Henry will be replenished by a youngster in four years or so. As I said previously, the strongest survive. No one knows who will shine. I think Merida, Bendtner and Muamba are the most likely to have a future though.

Batman wrote:Is it that difficult to sign lots of young, sometimes foreign, players from other clubs and then hope one or two turn out to be good?

A lot harder than it sounds. You have to nuture these players, they don't become good straight away. Anelka and Cesc didn't become sensations overnight. Obviously you get lots that don't make it but you get the odd diamond.

Batman wrote:Do you think we will see more and more clubs doing this? Liverpool have recently signed a lot of young players.

Possibly.

Our Carling Cup team showed Liverpools failings in their backup team. Peltier and Guthrie looked nothing on there foreign counterparts. Benitez has gone foreign recently with lots of 16-18 year olds. Maybe it will be a thing that all big clubs will do in the future. A smaller club couldn't afford to do it.

Parks lives wrote:I'm starting to think Wenger prefers praise to trophies.

He seems to prefer records to trophies, the unbeaten season they won just the prem. Think the 98 team was a lot better, the double was better than that but he would disagree

The 1998 team was better IMO. English heart at the back and foreign flair further up the pitch.

The unbeaten season means more to Wenger not only beause going unbeaten through a season is amazing. But because everyone laughed at him the previous season when he said we would do it. (We lost to a last minute Rooney goal at Everton)

Parks lives wrote:I'm starting to think Wenger prefers praise to trophies.

the youngsters got us to the final, so don't you think it would be unfair to then drop them all and play the regular first teamers?

Its not like its the Champs league, its the Carling Cup and in my opinion the decision to play the kids was the right one

Tweedle wrote:

Parks lives wrote:I'm starting to think Wenger prefers praise to trophies.

the youngsters got us to the final, so don't you think it would be unfair to then drop them all and play the regular first teamers?

Its not like its the Champs league, its the Carling Cup and in my opinion the decision to play the kids was the right one

I agree..they were the ones who got you there...they gave a good account of themselves against Chelsea anyway...

in a year or two i think Diaby and Denilson will be ready to be first team regulars, if they aren't already, but Fabregas is only 19 and then you have Flamini, Song, Muamba. These players won't be happy on the bench. Arsenal have a lot of players of the same age.

Tweedle wrote:

Parks lives wrote:I'm starting to think Wenger prefers praise to trophies.

the youngsters got us to the final, so don't you think it would be unfair to then drop them all and play the regular first teamers?

Its not like its the Champs league, its the Carling Cup and in my opinion the decision to play the kids was the right one

Not disputing that.

I can just see what Maureen means though, Wenger this season has probably got more praise than any Manager. Even though your fourth, possibly out of the Champions league and a really difficult FA cup game to get into the quarter finals.

All because he's signed loads of kids.

Will Wenger be remembered as a manager that was good at signing young players and making his team play good football?

what about winning back to back titles and the champions league? although Wenger still has time to achieve this.

We're in transition though - we've got the new stadium and rather than buying older players we've had to buy in young ones to replace the older players that have left.

Remember that we have lost Vieira, Edu, Campbell, Cole, Bergkamp and Pires all in the past one and a half seasons.... they're big players and very difficult to replace and a lot of them left for nominal fees because of their age.

We've probably spent about as much as we got from the transfers of Cole and Vieira, maybe a few million extra, but these are difficult players to replace, yet we're still in with a very good shout of a CL spot, we got to the final of the CC, we're still in the FA cup, and with a bit of luck we could still progress in the champs league

Parks lives wrote:

Tweedle wrote:

Parks lives wrote:I'm starting to think Wenger prefers praise to trophies.

the youngsters got us to the final, so don't you think it would be unfair to then drop them all and play the regular first teamers?

Its not like its the Champs league, its the Carling Cup and in my opinion the decision to play the kids was the right one

Not disputing that.

I can just see what Maureen means though, Wenger this season has probably got more praise than any Manager. Even though your fourth, possibly out of the Champions league and a really difficult FA cup game to get into the quarter finals.

All because he's signed loads of kids.

The press have a vested interest in keeping Arsenal high-profile, even after a trophyless run considerably longer than Ferguson went through. And they were saying for ages that Ferguson had lost it, his team was old and knackered, he'd lost his touch etc. But Wenger - no, he's untouchable, because he provides us with easy stories about statistics...

And doesn't spend £28m+ on players like Veron, Ferdinand and Rooney

Arsenal whinging about lack of money to spend is like the Queen complaining she's not as rich as Bill Gates...

I have to say that I also get annoyed about Wenger's 2 sets of excuses he seems to use all the time. First, there's the "we don't spend as much as other teams excuse". That's true, but it's been reported by the press that on several occasions, Wenger has had the chance to spend more money, and he decided not to. It's as if Wenger underspends to have an excuse ready in case he fails. And with the kids thing, he's the one who decides to star a day care center for little kids instead of forming a balanced football team. He could have bought an established player instead of spending 16 million Euros on Walcott and he decided not to. He should not cry about it then.

I don't think Muamba will make it as he lacks the technical ability to play at the highest level. Will be a good midfielder for a mid table side though.

Batman wrote:Will Wenger be remembered as a manager that was good at signing young players and making his team play good football?

I'm sure Wenger will be remembered for many things. The first of which will be modernising the modern game in England. He changed players diets and educated players how to live of the pitch for a better and longer career. Secondly will be breaking the Man Utd monopoly in England. Thirdly will be his playing style and success over the years. Finally he will be remembered as having a shrewd eye for a diamond youngster.

Batman wrote:what about winning back to back titles and the champions league? although Wenger still has time to achieve this.

Yes - He has almost achieved both. I see no reason why he can't go on and do this.

Tweedle wrote:We're in transition though - we've got the new stadium and rather than buying older players we've had to buy in young ones to replace the older players that have left.

Remember that we have lost Vieira, Edu, Campbell, Cole, Bergkamp and Pires all in the past one and a half seasons.... they're big players and very difficult to replace and a lot of them left for nominal fees because of their age.

It's easy to dismiss that fact - I'd totally forgotten that Arsenal had lost so many of their first team players, important ones as well. That's probably equivalent of United losing Giggs, Scholes, Neville and Saha in a season, and then people expecting them to continue to play at the high standards which they set with them. Fair play to Wenger, this is Arsenals transitional period, and things can only improve from now on.

Vieria and Edu were two seasons ago. They got a great replacement for Cole anyway in Gallas. Bergkamp and Pires weren't first teamers last season anyway.

Not to mention we've lost Keane and Van Nistelrooy in the last year as well.

Last season. The season before that they were our best players. You can't relly make that argument as they will still need replacing. Just like Giggs will, even if next season he doesnt play every match.

Parks lives wrote:Vieria and Edu were two seasons ago. They got a great replacement for Cole anyway in Gallas. Bergkamp and Pires weren't first teamers last season anyway.

Not to mention we've lost Keane and Van Nistelrooy in the last year as well.

The playing side of it is only part of it. The influence that these players bring is another thing.

Bergkamp, Pires and Campbell would have been huge characters around the club to other players. Just imagine having them around the changing rooms before a game, it would have been a huge lift. They possessed great experience and must have inspired. Much more than the likes of Senderos, Hleb or van Persie anyway. But these guys are learning quick so the transition should be over soon.

No excuses next season for me.

ironic to see out of all the kids, adebayor, eboue, and toure all will be banned from this match. Adebayor for a long time.

i dont get why people are judgning arsenal in a period when they dont really have the players to win the league imo.of course on the other hand few thought that man utd had a team to win. none the less wenger has tried to compensate for letting his experinced players go by getting youngsters. but instead of buying so many players and unproven players like hleb he should have gotten fewer youngsters and a player or two who could lead them through this period. as it has been said you can only play lets say two centre midfielders but they have alot in that area and only place will be open for the futre since cesc is so young.

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:i dont get why people are judgning arsenal in a period when they dont really have the players to win the league imo.of course on the other hand few thought that man utd had a team to win. none the less wenger has tried to compensate for letting his experinced players go by getting youngsters. but instead of buying so many players and unproven players like hleb he should have gotten fewer youngsters and a player or two who could lead them through this period. as it has been said you can only play lets say two centre midfielders but they have alot in that area and only place will be open for the futre since cesc is so young.

Frankly, this is bullshit. Hleb cost about 10 million quid and was an established player when Arsenal signed him. To be honest, I don't think you've got a clue.


Apparently the sort of response I just gave is the best way to refute an argument - dismiss someone's footballing knowledge without actually dealing with what they said. To an Arsenal fan, I must look really smart.

Saintsarama MBE wrote:Frankly, this is bullshit. Hleb cost about 10 million quid and was an established player when Arsenal signed him. To be honest, I don't think you've got a clue.

Hmm don't know how to take this one. He did cost a lot of money and was 23 when we signed him so he obviously had a lot of pedigree. I think the previous poster was trying to suggest that he was untried at a higher league and wasn't really a household name at the time outside Germany.

Saintsarama MBE wrote:To an Arsenal fan, I must look really smart.

You're a smart guy no doubting that.

Saintsarama MBE wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:i dont get why people are judgning arsenal in a period when they dont really have the players to win the league imo.of course on the other hand few thought that man utd had a team to win. none the less wenger has tried to compensate for letting his experinced players go by getting youngsters. but instead of buying so many players and unproven players like hleb he should have gotten fewer youngsters and a player or two who could lead them through this period. as it has been said you can only play lets say two centre midfielders but they have alot in that area and only place will be open for the futre since cesc is so young.

Frankly, this is bullshit. Hleb cost about 10 million quid and was an established player when Arsenal signed him. To be honest, I don't think you've got a clue.


Apparently the sort of response I just gave is the best way to refute an argument - dismiss someone's footballing knowledge without actually dealing with what they said. To an Arsenal fan, I must look really smart.

well he did make an impact in stuttgart but i wouldnt have considered him a proven player. also didnt walcoot cost like 14 mil and i wouldnt call him an established player.

Saintsarama MBE wrote:
The press have a vested interest in keeping Arsenal high-profile, even after a trophyless run considerably longer than Ferguson went through. ...

I thought that Ferguson was in the job for a few years before he won a trophy with United. Indeed, they even finished below Millwall one season.

Yes - I believe Fergie's run was 5 years - 1986 until the 1991 FA Cup?

Roger Hunt wrote:Yes - I believe Fergie's run was 5 years - 1986 until the 1991 FA Cup?

Thanks Rog. We can always rely on a Liverpool supporter to be an expert on the failures of Man.United.

You know me better than I know myself.

I would point out that in 1988 they came second in the league.