Brazilian pundits are swimming in a steaming pool of $h!t

I won't say names cause you foreigners don't know them (Sheva knows of whom I'm talking about), but our pundits were humiliated by Dunga's victory.

All those pundits who, since 1990, are bashing our team because we don't play to lose anymore. In 1994, they bashed the team so much during the world cup it was ridiculous. They said that that team had not a chance of winning, that Dunga and the others were Cr@p hoofers. That great team proved they were wrong. Those old pundits were humiliated, and since then they began to hate everything related to the so-called "Dunga generation".

Then they began to say that it's better to lose like in 1982 than to win like in 1994. Bullshit. If it wasn't for 1994, if it wasn't for that change of direction, we would probably be still three times world champions right now.

One of those pundits said last year that the 1994 team was one of the worst things that could happen to Brazilain football.

Before 2002, all those critics were saying brazil would choke in the world cup, that Felipão was playing anti-football, asking the players to tackle hard, playing a non-Brazilian 3-5-2 system. Bullshit. Now they lick Scolari's balls everyday.

In the last world cup, they all said that that team would be as great a Brazil as in 1970, that Ronaldinho, Kaká, Adriano, and Ronaldo were the great magic square, that Parreira was doing an excelent job. But then they decided that a magic square wasn't enough for their sick, pitiful, archaic minds. They wanted a fucking magic pentagon!

Yes, they wanted a fucking magic pentagon with Ronaldinho, Kaká, Adriano, Ronaldo, and Little Pussy Boy Robinho, the magic kid. No joking, they began to call Parreira conservative becasue he was being "too defensive". They wanted a freak show to amuse themselves with, a bloody football-samba circus to lose with charm.

Well, we all saw what happened to that magic square. Should Parreira play with 3 DMs, we would have won that thing, cause we had by far the best players in the world.

Now they decided to bash Dunga. Dunga has been a poor coach in his choices, but he won this Copa América when he decided to play with 3 DMs.

Those pundits called Afonso "horrible", saying that Dunga was propably choosing him because there was money involved, because of the player's agent.

They insulted Dunga and most players of the team, praising only wonder boy Robinho, the guy who can only play fucking samba in group stages against poor opposition, and Diego, the club player. They insulted Gilberto Silva, our captain, they insulted Doni, Máicon, Gilberto, Mineiro, Josué, Júlio Baptista, Daniel Alves, and Afonso.

They said that playing with 3 DMs was ridiculous, that Argentina was playing in the way we should play, that Dunga was disrespecting the Brazilian tradition.

Now they should shut the f@ck up and retire, cause tghey are archaic, pathetic bastards. But no, one of those c**ts, one of the most respected sports journalists in Brazil, a guy who knows nothing about football, said that Dunga should thank those journalists for criticising and making our players play with spirit.

I was looking forward to this, because I remember you posting "I want to see Brazil win just so the pundits are humiliated", and that's exactly what happened

Great stuff. Just wanted to add that Diego was not praised by the Brazilian press, on the contrary. He was crucified for saying that "Brazil are not here to play beautifully, but to win" (or similar). Even the German press covered this.

He will convince you one day todo, I know he will. Actually, he should be a player of your liking, tremendously talented, yet very modest and never hesitant to help out in the defence. Definitely not to be taken for granted when it comes to attacking players, especially Brazilian ones.

Diego is indeed a good player. I never denied that. But I believe he's a club player. I may be wrong though. let's see.

blutgraetsche wrote::lol!:

Great stuff. Just wanted to add that Diego was not praised by the Brazilian press, on the contrary. He was crucified for saying that "Brazil are not here to play beautifully, but to win" (or similar). Even the German press covered this.

He will convince you one day todo, I know he will. Actually, he should be a player of your liking, tremendously talented, yet very modest and never hesitant to help out in the defence. Definitely not to be taken for granted when it comes to attacking players, especially Brazilian ones.

the team I would like to see now:


______________________J César______________________

Máicon_________Lúcio*________Juan___________Gilberto**

__________________Gilberto Silva_____________________

_____Dani Alves***____________________Josué_________

___________________Kaká____________________________

_______________fat Ronaldo___________Ronaldinho****




* As strange as it seems, we have one of the best group of defenders in the world: Juan, Lúcio, Alex, Naldo, Luisão. That would be my pair, but we do have many good options.

** I can't think of a better option right now. Maybe Santos's Kléber.

*** Dani Alves as a DM alongside Josué. He can mark alright for a midfielder and also attack well. That was how he played against Argentina.

**** Ronaldinho and Kaká can play in the same team if one of them play as a midfielder, as the other as an attacking winger. Kaká would be well backed up by 3 DMs.




but that wouldn't be enough for our pundits. they would all want to see Ronaldinho, Kaká, Diego, Robinho, and a striker in the same team, as if it was possible.

so you wouldnt start robinho

never. who would you drop in his favour?

Mexicanbecks wrote:so you wouldnt start robinho

Dani Alves and Maicon did link well together down the right.

Looks good. Well balanced, and strong going forward.

Diego could be a sub to Kaka (that's his ideal position, behind the strikers in a diamond midfield), or if one of Dinho or Kaka are injured / whatever, he could play there and Kaka as second striker in Dinho's position (and vice versa). Kaka has played a lot of matches for Milan in that position also, and very effectively so (Kaka is actually no 'real' playmaker in the classic sense).

The only real problem I see: Ronaldo will be almost 34 in 2010, he can't be a long term solution IMHO, as he won't get any faster in future.

I really like that idea of Dani Alves as a DM/Winger

Also Ronaldinho as a roaming "support striker". He would basically play the role Robinho did in this Copa America, but be 100x better.

that's exactly what I think. he has always played deep as a playmaker for Brazil, behind 2 strikers. if he plays as second striker, he'll get the back up to show his football. Robinho would be his sub.

@blut

yeh, that's the idea. Diego could also be a sub.

yeh, I mean I'd play Ronaldo if he was ok to play. Ronaldo is Ronaldo. period. Afonso would be his sub.

kas wrote:I really like that idea of Dani Alves as a DM/Winger :k:

Also Ronaldinho as a roaming "support striker". He would basically play the role Robinho did in this Copa America, but be 100x better.

Exactly. Even if Parreira wanted Brazil wouldn't play jogo bonito at the 94 WC. Brazil had poor offensive midfielders (rai was in very bad form, zinho, mazinho and Paulo Sérgio were decent). But some morons keep criticising that team. Brazilian full backs, defenders, defensive midfielders and strikers did an excellent job at the 94 WC.

The journalist todo have mentioned tried to do to Afonso what some journalists did to Dunga in 1990. Do you remember todo? "Era Dunga"...

yes, of course i remember. In fact, everything began in 1990.

I was a 10-year-old kid, but I remember very well. That was the begining of the Era Dunga. The begining of the winning and the bashing.

To tell the truth, I remember Copa América 1989, in Brazil. Brazil played the group stages in Salvador, the city I lived, and I went to see the games with my father.

The stadium booed our team during those 3 games because Lazaroni had not called Charles, Bahia's striker. Because of that, Brazil didn't play in Salvador again in the following 10 years, as a punishment to the city.

Well, we ended up winning that Copa América, beating Argentina in the semis (Bebeto scored this beauty in that game http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ8cT5ECMXk) and Uruguay in the final, with a great show by Romário.

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=J63NnkUdQbA

Then in the WC Lazaroni decided to play "defensive football", according to our pundits. Right, Germany won that WC deservedly, they were the best, period. But I really don't know what would happen if we had beaten Argentina.

We played so much better. We missed so many chances. We attacked so much, and the Argentines did absolutely nothing. That is, almost nothing, until the great genius (you all know who he is) made a wonderful assist to Caniggia. http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=52lvd9xLhaw

sheva7 wrote:Exactly. Even if Parreira wanted Brazil wouldn't play jogo bonito at the 94 WC. Brazil had poor offensive midfielders (rai was in very bad form, zinho, mazinho and Paulo Sérgio were decent). But some morons keep criticising that team. Brazilian full backs, defenders, defensive midfielders and strikers did an excellent job at the 94 WC.

The journalist todo have mentioned tried to do to Afonso what some journalists did to Dunga in 1990. Do you remember todo? "Era Dunga"...

I remember that everyone wanted us to beat the Argies in the final, really everyone. Argentina's 'strategy' in 1990 was to play ultra defensive anti-football (Bilardo had a free reign after winning the 1986 WC), take the teams to penalties and let Goycochea take care of the rest (was there ever a better penalty killer than him?).

Having quite a few key players playing in Italy at that time helped our popularity, but usually, it's us who everyone just wants to see losing, the team people love to hate. It was a new experience really, at least for that generation of players (it used to be different (much) earlier).

The key to everything is balance. Brasil learned that, and showed that in 1994. Why would Brasil provide all the show when Europeans like Italia and Germany would just sit back, defend, and try to catch Brasil or whomever with counters?

I'm glad Brasil went for a more balanced approach to the game. We have changed our approach as well. Why provide all the spectacle, all the entertainment to the fans when teams would just park the bus, and wait to see what they get?

Argentina must adjust their game a little as well. We South Americans will always have the best talent, but we have to be smart and not fall into the conservatives' trap. Good for Brasil!

I'd go even further than that. To show a real (means effective and fruitful) 'spectacle', you actually need balance, it's an absolute necessity, otherwise it's often just pointless showmanship.

Geniuses like Ronaldinho and Kaka need water carriers ("3 DM system") behind them to be really effective, just like Riquelme needs water carriers also.

Kaka is a special case though. He is Brazil's most scary weapon, because he is the ideal combination of European discipline and directness, and typical South American flair and technique.

mongrel hawk wrote:yes, of course i remember. In fact, everything began in 1990.

I was a 10-year-old kid, but I remember very well. That was the begining of the Era Dunga. The begining of the winning and the bashing.

To tell the truth, I remember Copa América 1989, in Brazil. Brazil played the group stages in Salvador, the city I lived, and I went to see the games with my father.

The stadium booed our team during those 3 games because Lazaroni had not called Charles, Bahia's striker. Because of that, Brazil didn't play in Salvador again in the following 10 years, as a punishment to the city.

Well, we ended up winning that Copa América, beating Argentina in the semis (Bebeto scored this beauty in that game http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ8cT5ECMXk) and Uruguay in the final, with a great show by Romário.

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=J63NnkUdQbA

Then in the WC Lazaroni decided to play "defensive football", according to our pundits. Right, Germany won that WC deservedly, they were the best, period. But I really don't know what would happen if we had beaten Argentina.

We played so much better. We missed so many chances. We attacked so much, and the Argentines did absolutely nothing. That is, almost nothing, until the great genius (you all know who he is) made a wonderful assist to Caniggia. http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=52lvd9xLhaw

sheva7 wrote:Exactly. Even if Parreira wanted Brazil wouldn't play jogo bonito at the 94 WC. Brazil had poor offensive midfielders (rai was in very bad form, zinho, mazinho and Paulo Sérgio were decent). But some morons keep criticising that team. Brazilian full backs, defenders, defensive midfielders and strikers did an excellent job at the 94 WC.

The journalist todo have mentioned tried to do to Afonso what some journalists did to Dunga in 1990. Do you remember todo? "Era Dunga"...

Now our pundits were waiting for another fiasco. Like they elected Dunga as the symbol of the 90 defeat, they wanted to elect Afonso as the symbol of a new failure. Afonso was the best brazilian striker last season and obviously he wouldn't deserve it.

@Brazilians,

Does Leanardo do any punditry back in Brazil?

He is often found on BBC and comes across very knowledgeable and down to earth. Puts a lot of the BBC pundits to shame. I liked his presence at this years WC very much on the telly. Think he's a longterm target of the BBC, after all there is only so much non-English viewers can take of the legend that is Ian Wright! ;-)

@Todo

That Maradonna run and pass for Caniggia was trully exquisite. What a stunning goal, its the first time I have seen it, that little cheating Argie could play a bit, couldnt he?!

Puro wrote:The key to everything is balance. Brasil learned that, and showed that in 1994. Why would Brasil provide all the show when Europeans like Italia and Germany would just sit back, defend, and try to catch Brasil or whomever with counters?

I'm glad Brasil went for a more balanced approach to the game. We have changed our approach as well. Why provide all the spectacle, all the entertainment to the fans when teams would just park the bus, and wait to see what they get?

Argentina must adjust their game a little as well. We South Americans will always have the best talent, but we have to be smart and not fall into the conservatives' trap. Good for Brasil!

i would prefer that we had teams that always tried to play a certain way. its the differences in tactics that make football a better sport then most. if brazil continue to play a more pragmatic style they will lose some of the respect it has gained.anyway i will be cheering for the teams that try to go the extra mile.

kas wrote:I really like that idea of Dani Alves as a DM/Winger

Also Ronaldinho as a roaming "support striker". He would basically play the role Robinho did in this Copa America, but be 100x better.

I don't think Ronaldinho has ever performed to the level for Brasil that he has for Barca. Yes, he's better than Robinho, but don't belittle Robinho's efforts. He was the sole creative spark in this Brasil side, and if it wasn't for him they wouldn't have even made out of the group stages. Wasn't just about the goals either.

I also agree that Alvez as a DM/Winger could work well - even though I'm not really a fan of his. But he's better than Elano. I've never seen him play, but I like what I hear about Lucas. It's just a shame he's gone to Liverpool, because he will get little playing time.

Calidad wrote:

kas wrote:I really like that idea of Dani Alves as a DM/Winger

Also Ronaldinho as a roaming "support striker". He would basically play the role Robinho did in this Copa America, but be 100x better.

I don't think Ronaldinho has ever performed to the level for Brasil that he has for Barca. Yes, he's better than Robinho, but don't belittle Robinho's efforts. He was the sole creative spark in this Brasil side, and if it wasn't for him they wouldn't have even made out of the group stages. Wasn't just about the goals either.

I also agree that Alvez as a DM/Winger could work well - even though I'm not really a fan of his. But he's better than Elano. I've never seen him play, but I like what I hear about Lucas. It's just a shame he's gone to Liverpool, because he will get little playing time.

lucas apparently hasn't joined us yet

it all hinges on him getting an italian passport

my view on the situation anyway is that if he's good enough he will get a good number of games next season then the following season we may lose mascherano which is why rafa went ahead and bought lucas as well as keeping sissoko. if he impresses sufficiently which I have no doubt he will he will get enough games to allow us to assess him. rafa will rotate like mad this season

but anyway... back on topic

I hope he get's some games. As I said, I've never seen him play before, but according to Vickery (and other pundits) he's a player that Brasil have not had for sometime - a true box to box player who enjoys both defending and getting forward. I actually think he has been compared to Gerrard, not sure by who though.

he's more defensive than gerrard. he's a DM who can attack.

Calidad wrote:

I hope he get's some games. As I said, I've never seen him play before, but according to Vickery (and other pundits) he's a player that Brasil have not had for sometime - a true box to box player who enjoys both defending and getting forward. I actually think he has been compared to Gerrard, not sure by who though.

no. he doesn't.

but he's very respected here.

I am Mum-Ra wrote:@Brazilians,

Does Leanardo do any punditry back in Brazil?

He is often found on BBC and comes across very knowledgeable and down to earth. Puts a lot of the BBC pundits to shame. I liked his presence at this years WC very much on the telly. Think he's a longterm target of the BBC, after all there is only so much non-English viewers can take of the legend that is Ian Wright! ;-)

I saw that alive, and that goal mad me cry in rage, cause Brazil could be already 4-0 when Cannigia scored. I wouldn't say it was unfair, cause I don't believe in unfair games (if Brazil couldn't score, they didn't deserve to win), but that's the kind of game many people would consider unfair.

But Maradona is Maradona. He won that game.

Bon voyage Rossi wrote:@Todo

That Maradonna run and pass for Caniggia was trully exquisite. What a stunning goal, its the first time I have seen it, that little cheating Argie could play a bit, couldnt he?!

I am Mum-Ra wrote:@Brazilians,

Does Leanardo do any punditry back in Brazil?

He is often found on BBC and comes across very knowledgeable and down to earth. Puts a lot of the BBC pundits to shame. I liked his presence at this years WC very much on the telly. Think he's a longterm target of the BBC, after all there is only so much non-English viewers can take of the legend that is Ian Wright! ;-)

He may be nice but he's too neutral on pretty much everything. He never spits out any actual opinions - his ass must have splinters in it.