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    F$%^ Jose, Roman Made Chelsea!

    TM
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:03 am



    Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez yesterday cranked up his bitter war of words with Jose Mourinho by questioning his role in Chelsea's emergence as a European super-power.



    Benitez, who reacted tetchily during pre-season when Mourinho suggested he needed to justify a massive summer spending spree at Anfield, let the Stamford Bridge boss have it with both barrels, claiming that Chelsea owed their recent success to Roman Abramovich's wealth rather than Mourinho's wisdom.

    "He said he will not talk about other teams, so maybe his memory is playing up," Benitez said of Mourinho. "But it is about who spent the most money in the last five years, not one.

    "I would say the players are more important than the managers. If you analyse the last five years, it's clear Abramovich has done a fantastic job."

    Though spoken with a mischievous smile, those provocative words were chosen deliberately by Benitez to get under the skin of his most bitter rival.
    And they add fuel to what already promised to be a firecracker showdown between the two title-chasing clubs at Anfield tomorrow.

    Mourinho loves to trumpet his two title successes in his first two seasons at Stamford Bridge. Only last week Chelsea broke Liverpool's record for the longest unbeaten league run on home soil. But the Spaniard's intention to belittle Mourinho's achievements by attributing them purely to Abramovich's billions will have seriously wound up his Portuguese counterpart.

    Yet Liverpool players seem more anxious to let their football do the talking amid a genuine feeling on Merseyside that the title is there to be won. Dirk Kuyt, the man whose shoot-out penalty dumped Chelsea out of last season's Champions League semi-final, says Liverpool are desperate to send a message to their title rivals that they mean business.

    "I think it is very important for us to beat Chelsea on Sunday," he said. "If we do that, it shows not only them but also Manchester United that we are serious.

    "We showed last season that we were close to them and hopefully we will prove we're even better this time.

    "We don't only want to do it in the big games but in the others as well - but first we need to win against Chelsea because that will make the perfect statement at this stage of the season."

    And Kuyt believes if Liverpool can do that, then they have the strength in depth this season to launch a serious assault on the title at the business end of the campaign.

    "I think we have many more than 11 good players and that shows the strength of the team this year. We have at least two men for every position," he said.

    "Maybe we have a deeper squad than the rest, and that can only be good for us. At the end of the season that is what will make the difference between winning a trophy and losing one."

    Kuyt will return to the starting line-up tomorrow after being rested in midweek, partnering Fernando Torres in a forward line Benitez is convinced will bring goals.

    But while Benitez wants to send the same emphatic message to Chelsea as Kuyt, he believes it will not take 89 points to win the title, as it did last term.

    "I don't think you will see the top sides winning so many games in a row this time," he said.

    "Many teams have bought better quality and that will see them taking points off the top sides."

    Rafa v JOSE: HEAD TO HEAD

    Rafa Benitez 5 Jose Mourinho 7 (3 Draws)

    Oct 2004 Prem: Chelsea 1 - 0 Liverpool

    Jan 2005 Prem: Liverpool 0 - 1 Chelsea

    Feb 2005 Prem: Liverpool 2 - 3 Chelsea

    Apr 2005 Prem: Chelsea 0 - 0 Chelsea

    May 2005 Prem: Liverpool 1 - 0 Chelsea

    Sep 2005 Prem: Liverpool 0 - 0 Chelsea

    Sep 2005 Prem: Liverpool 1 - 4 Chelsea

    Dec 2005 Prem: Liverpool 0 - 0 Chelsea

    Feb 2005 Prem: Chelsea 2 - 0 Chelsea

    Apr 2006 FA Cup Chelsea 1 - 2 Liverpool

    Aug 2006 Ch Shield: Chelsea 1 - 2 Liverpool

    Sep, 2006 Prem: Chelsea 1 - 0 Liverpool

    Jan 2007 Prem: Liverpool 2 - 0 Chelsea.

    Apr 2007 Ch Lge: Chelsea 1 - 0 Liverpool

    May 2007 Ch Lge: Liverpool 1 - 0 Chelsea

    WHY THEY DISLIKE EACH OTHER

    The Chelsea boss refused to shake hands with his Anfield rival following their FA Cup simi-final meeting at Old Trafford in April 2006, and Mourinho branded Liverpool a "small club" before their Champions League semi-final clash last season, which the Reds won.

    Mourinho claimed that if he had done the same at Chelsea as the Spaniard had done at Anfield, he would have been sacked. He also said Rafa was ungracious in efusing to accept that Luis Garcia's Champions League semifinal winner against the Blues in 2005 had not crossed the line.

    Live on Sky Sports 1 KO: 4pm


    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:07 am

    Well... its a bit of both I guess. Mourinho's talents cannot be doubted though. Any manager to get Chelsea into the top four every season but it takes a very good manager to get the consistency that Chelsea showed in the 04-05 and 05-06 seasons
    TM
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:11 am

    Really suprised Rafa has been engaged in the war of words, he should have rather spent the 5 mintues on shaving that horrible mess on his face.

    Liverpool will be looking for a win today, anything but, would could open the gap between Chelsea and MU and Liverpool, depending on how MU do against Citeh, and how Liverpool do with their game in hand..

    It will be a tough task for Jose & co to get a result at Anfield not to mention their injury problems.
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    Post by Tweesus Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:13 am

    *tomorrow

    Chelsea's defence has looked shaky in the last couple of games but paradoxically, their attack has looked a lot better than in the last three or so seasons.

    It could be a great game, although I sincerely doubt it
    TM
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:14 am

    Will Liverp0-0l's anti football tactics it may well be.
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    Post by robert Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:16 am

    Well not really fair to call liverpool that. They've played attacking football thus far, well both teams have, let's hope they stay the course in that game, unlikely though.
    TM
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:43 am

    I only saw the Villa game, where Gerrard decided it was a free kick and scored it ok Wink
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    Post by Luis Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:46 am

    It's too early for this match to be a 'title decider' or anything like that, it's important to win though and show we can compete this year.

    As for Rafa's words, he was asked about Mourinho and he answered, Jose deserves a bit of stick from his oppisite number, he's been dishing it out enough.
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:13 pm

    Chelsea with Abramovich but without Mourinho - could have still won 2 leagues and a bunch of other stuff.

    Chelsea without Abramovich but with Mourinho - would be in administration winning nothing.
    TM
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:47 pm

    If you take into consideration at Leiria and FC porto, Mourinho didn't have buckets of cash, he still accomplished a hell of alot.


    He got Leiria a team that would be expected to fight relegation to 4th place, whilst we all know what he did at Porto winning the UEFA Cup, CL, All domestic titles etc, all without spending millions.

    So to say Chelsea would be in administration is a joke, i'm pretty sure they would have won something out of the 4 titles available
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:52 pm

    TM wrote:If you take into consideration at Leiria and FC porto, Mourinho didn't have buckets of cash, he still accomplished a hell of alot.

    I'm not denying that.

    He got Leiria a team that would be expected to fight relegation to 4th place, whilst we all know what he did at Porto winning the UEFA Cup, CL, All domestic titles etc, all without spending millions.

    I'm pretty sure he did spend millions at Porto, just not very many millions.

    So to say Chelsea would be in administration is a joke, i'm pretty sure they would have won something out of the 4 titles available

    Chelsea had massive debts when Abramovich took over. They had no way of servicing this debt due to a small(ish) stadium and Arsenal being the popular London club of the time. There's no question that they would have gone into administration sooner or later.

    Try looking into a topic before spouting off on it.
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:54 pm

    I'm fully aware of that Chelsea were a week away from going into administration before Roman came. But from what i read at the time it wasn't Roman who was the only one who was interested in buying Chelsea, although others didn't may have not had as much cash as he did.

    Besides on the pitch the squad Jose inherited wasn't a bad one, likes of Crespo, Cole, Duff, Lamps, Terry etc, he would have something, even if that had been the Carling Cup.
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:05 pm

    TM wrote:I'm fully aware of that Chelsea were a week away from going into administration before Roman came. But from what i read at the time it wasn't Roman who was the only one who was interested in buying Chelsea, although others didn't may have not had as much cash as he did.

    Right, so administration wasn't a 'joke' as you suggested.

    Besides on the pitch the squad Jose inherited wasn't a bad one, likes of Crespo, Cole, Duff, Lamps, Terry etc, he would have something, even if that had been the Carling Cup.

    Crespo was always unhappy in England, Duff had only one good season for Chelsea (under Ranieri), Lampard has always been average, Terry and Cole wouldn't, on their own, have won anything. They didn't win anything before Abramovich.

    Hell, West Ham had Cole, Ferdinand, James, Lampard, Carrick, Sinclair and Defoe and they got relegated...
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    Post by golsud Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:12 pm

    Both of them are c**ts <Ale>
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:18 pm

    Carlo Cudicini
    Ed de Goey
    3 Celestine Babayaro
    7 Winston Bogarde
    6 Marcel Desailly
    19 Valerio Di Cesare
    18 Albert Ferrer
    13 William Gallas
    29 Robert Huth
    36 Joe Keenan
    33 Joel Kitamirik
    14 Graeme Le Saux
    15 Mario Melchiot
    26 John Terry
    Gabriele Ambrosetti
    21 Enrique De Lucas
    30 Jesper Grønkjær
    8 Frank Lampard
    20 Jody Morris
    17 Emmanuel Petit
    12 Mario Stanic
    11 Boudewijn Zenden
    39 Carlton Cole
    22 Eidur Gudjohnsen
    9 Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink
    28 Filipe Oliveira
    Robert Wolleaston


    The squad JM would have inherited before a penny spent.

    There are some class players there for that time..

    Cudicini, Le Saux, Terry, Desailly, JFH (goal scoring machine), Eidur, Lamps, Petit, Gallas.

    Maybe not a championship winning squad, when you look at what MU had at the time, but with what JM had done at Porto and Leiria, i think he would have got the best out of the squad and won something.


    Roger Hunterrific wrote:They didn't win anything before Abramovich.

    League



    • First Division/Premier League[63]: 3
      1954-55,
    • Second Division/Championship: 2
      1983-84, 1988-89

      Cups
    • FA Cup: 4
      1970, 1997, 2000,
    • League Cup: 4

      1965, 1998,
    • FA Charity Shield/Community Shield[64]: 3
      1955, 2000,

      Full Members Cup: 2
      1986, 1990

      [edit] European
    • UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 2
      1971, 1998
    • European Super Cup: 1
      League
    • First Division/Premier League[63]: 3
      1954-55,
    • Second Division/Championship: 2
      1983-84, 1988-89

      [edit] Cups
    • FA Cup: 4
      1970, 1997, 2000,
    • League Cup: 4
      1965, 1998,
    • FA Charity Shield/Community Shield[64]: 3
      1955, 2000,

      Full Members Cup: 2
    • 1986, 1990

      [edit] European
    • UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 2
      1971, 1998
    • European Super Cup: 1
      1998


    Last edited by on Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by Sheffield gunner Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:22 pm

    I'm with Saints on this one, Abramovich made Chelsea what they are today. It's all well and good saying Mourinho would have done well with the squad that Chelsea had, but would a manager of his calabre have gone to Chelsea without Abramovich's presence? If Chelsea had gone into administration then they would have had to sell many of their better players as well. Mourinho is a very good manager, who has done a great job at Chelsea, but I would expect most genuine, top-class managers to do well with the resources he has had at his disposal.
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    Post by Zack Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:26 pm

    Yes Mourinho would have won something with that squad, however they would unlikely to be a title winning side...

    They would challenge the top 4 and probably do well in the CL...

    But it takes more than that to win the title, you need that extra class, like a drogba...Whom if it wasn't for him last year and the season b4 , they wouldn't have come close to winning the title..

    Thats the difference, Roman made Chelsea a title winning side...I think thats what Benitez is getting at...
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:26 pm

    TM wrote:
    Roger Hunterrific wrote:They didn't win anything before Abramovich.

    I was referring to Terry and Cole...
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:27 pm

    Sheffield gunner wrote:I'm with Saints on this one, Abramovich made Chelsea what they are today. It's all well and good saying Mourinho would have done well with the squad that Chelsea had, but would a manager of his calabre have gone to Chelsea without Abramovich's presence? If Chelsea had gone into administration then they would have had to sell many of their better players as well. Mourinho is a very good manager, who has done a great job at Chelsea, but I would expect most genuine, top-class managers to do well with the resources he has had at his disposal.

    I think that RA money has made Chelsea's success quicker than it could ever be, the cash injection allowed Chelsea to bring in various class players and challenge for major honours, i think it's obvious tha RA is more important than Jose in their success, but to say that all the success is due to the money is wrong, Jose had to mould the players into a winning formula.
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    Post by Parks lives Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:27 pm

    It's not rocket science. Mourinhio would not of even moved to Chelsea if it wasn't for Roman.
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:28 pm

    Zack_thfc wrote:
    Thats the difference, Roman made Chelsea a title winning side...I think thats what Benitez is getting at...

    That would be right.
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    Post by Deano Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:28 pm

    Chelsea would have had to sell some of their players. Wasn't so long ago they were knocked out of the UEFA Cup two seasons running by Hapoel and Vålerenga?

    They were in financial crisis. Could have easily turned into another Leeds.
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:29 pm

    Sheffield gunner wrote:I'm with Saints on this one, Abramovich made Chelsea what they are today. It's all well and good saying Mourinho would have done well with the squad that Chelsea had, but would a manager of his calabre have gone to Chelsea without Abramovich's presence? If Chelsea had gone into administration then they would have had to sell many of their better players as well. Mourinho is a very good manager, who has done a great job at Chelsea, but I would expect most genuine, top-class managers to do well with the resources he has had at his disposal.


    A very fair assessment. Mourinho has used about half a billion pounds to produce a squad who play consistent but unentertaining football. He's done well, but not spectacularly well (like he did at Porto, for example). I mean, if I spent 145 million just on forwards and wingers then I'd expect a little more in terms of product.
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:30 pm

    Chelsea's peformance in the transfer market can always be question paying £24M for Drogba, when no other club was intersted and selling players at half the price they've brought them for etc. But clubs do seem to infilate their prices when the big clubs come sniffing.
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:32 pm

    TM wrote:Chelsea's peformance in the transfer market can always be question paying £24M for Drogba, when no other club was intersted and selling players at half the price they've brought them for etc. But clubs do seem to infilate their prices when the big clubs come sniffing.

    Nonetheless, Chelsea have spent more in the last four or five years than any other club in the history of football, even Man U, Madrid, Lazio...
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    Post by Deano Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:33 pm

    In the last season before Roman took over, Chelsea made Enrique De Lucas their only summer signing (on a free). What would have changed? Nothing. I don't see where they could have moved forward being about £80m in debt and not being able to sign top class/many players.
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    Post by Parks lives Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:35 pm

    I don't know what point TM is trying to make. They had crippling debts and only a man willing to spend half a billion could of saved them. Luckily for them he did. <Ale>
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:35 pm

    Roger Hunterrific wrote:
    TM wrote:Chelsea's peformance in the transfer market can always be question paying £24M for Drogba, when no other club was intersted and selling players at half the price they've brought them for etc. But clubs do seem to infilate their prices when the big clubs come sniffing.

    Nonetheless, Chelsea have spent more in the last four or five years than any other club in the history of football, even Man U, Madrid, Lazio...

    Yep, and it's a fair point that they should be playing more aesthetically pleasing football. And maybe that's the reason why RA is getting a grip of the spending too.
    TM
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    Post by TM Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:38 pm

    Parks lives wrote:I don't know what point TM is trying to make. They had crippling debts and only a man willing to spend half a billion could of saved them. Luckily for them he did. <Ale>

    The point is, that JM has had a hand in Chelsea's success to two EPL titles and other stuff.

    But if it wasn't for RA we all know they would never have been challenging, yes.

    But it takes millions to buy all the stars in the world, but it also takes a good manager to mould them into a team and get them to win titles.
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    Post by Zack Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:38 pm

    The whole point is really irrelvent, Mourinho would never come to a club sinking into Administration...and with no money to spend...

    Fact is, chelsea should see Roman as their saviour, more so than the players and Manager...

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