The Azzurini

The most successful European U21 side plans to snub local talents like Acquafresca, Rossi, Pozzi, Balotelli and Lupoli in favour of the "oriundi"... this comes as a surprise to me, Italy does not need this... or perhaps its just a strategy to tie down future talents like Osvaldo and Trejo into an Italian future... once they play for Italy, they cannot play for argentina ever...

Trejo receives Azzurrini offer
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Argentine striker Oscar Trejo has revealed an approach from Italy’s Under-21 side to represent the Azzurrini at the 2008 Olympics. Born in Santiago del Estero in April 1988 from Italian parentage, the Real Mallorca hitman admitted he could be an ‘Oriundo.’ “It is a great opportunity for me,” confessed Trejo. “I have to talk it over with my family, but for the moment I will not discard any option.”

The Boca Juniors youth product is not the first Argentine to have been approached by Under-21 boss Pierluigi Casiraghi. He had also called up Fiorentina’s Daniel Osvaldo for a European Championship qualifier, but the striker had to pull out due to an injury.

It is possible Casiraghi is planning to field an all-Argentine front pairing in the 2008 Olympics – a decision that is guaranteed to cause controversy in the peninsula. Italy have long been one of the most consistently successful Under-21 sides in the world and to turn to South America for imports would be considered a needless snub to local talent

Is this the first time its happening at youth level?

Camoranesi is an Argentine who plays for Italy. I don't see why it is necessarily a bad thing.

Nah, its not a bad thing... most nations do it in some form or shape...

The Oriundi were a big part of Italys success pre 1960 - there are so many of them. Now there is Camoranesi and soon we hope to see Amauri...

But tactically, I think Acquafresca and Rossi respresent the best strike force for the azzurini....

Cesc wrote:Is this the first time its happening at youth level?

Camoranesi is an Argentine who plays for Italy. I don't see why it is necessarily a bad thing.

Just goes to show the sheer amount of talent coming out of argentina at the moment. these players must look at the likes of messi and aguero and figure that they will never get to play for the country of their birth, or not very often anyway.
having said that the argies do desperately need a forward over 3 foot 2 for the dwarf wizards to play off.

bluenine wrote:The most successful European U21 side plans to snub local talents like Acquafresca, Rossi, Pozzi, Balotelli and Lupoli in favour of the "oriundi"... this comes as a surprise to me, Italy does not need this... or perhaps its just a strategy to tie down future talents like Osvaldo and Trejo into an Italian future... once they play for Italy, they cannot play for argentina ever...

Eeuuhm? You sure?

They are Italy are 5 time Champions. 2004 was their last triumph. Dominated for 10 years (94-2004)

Sorry, I misread it.

The best is obviously Oranje.

Since 1888 wrote:Sorry, I misread it.

The best is obviously Oranje.

You know Foppe de Haan credited Louis van Gaal for starting the current dominance , this team can beat the Italians

Raifael wrote:

Since 1888 wrote:Sorry, I misread it.

The best is obviously Oranje.

You know Foppe de Haan credited Louis van Gaal for starting the current dominance , this team can beat the Italians

Lol, they already did

The Azurinnis are a thing of the past : there's a new sheriff in town...and he's wearing Oranje

The dutch has a very good side as well, no doubt about that.

The Azzurini have under performed in the last 2 championships, their sides were quality.... infact many suggested the Azzurini of last summer were the best team to represent Italy in this competition - just that their defence screwed up, and the likes of Montolivo, Aquilani & Rosina didn't do their usual magic. Stupid Casiraghi who changed the tactics in the last minute!!

@Since1888, the azzurini have won 5 of the 9 Euro U21 championships... mathematically, there cannot be a more successful nation!!! They win it more times than they don't!!!

Axeslammer wrote:

Raifael wrote:

Since 1888 wrote:Sorry, I misread it.

The best is obviously Oranje.

You know Foppe de Haan credited Louis van Gaal for starting the current dominance , this team can beat the Italians

Lol, they already did

The Azurinnis are a thing of the past : there's a new sheriff in town...and he's wearing Oranje

if any of these players are 6'0" and half as good as any of the 3 midgets then Argentina needs to do everything in their powers to ensure that at least one of them plays for them.

Osvaldo is 6 feet, and I checked, Trejo is thereabouts. You are right, Italy should "cup tie" them immediately - you cannot let the argies have talented tall strikers, they will become unbeatable!!

Messiah wrote:if any of these players are 6'0" and half as good as any of the 3 midgets then Argentina needs to do everything in their powers to ensure that at least one of them plays for them.

I've been looking out for Aquafresca this year bluey after your hyping him in the summer and he looks nothing other than average. Same for Ginvinco

From what I have seen, both have looked very good whenever they get a chance to play for their teams... and both have done excellently for the azzurini, with giovinco outshining Rossi in the creative dept, and Acquafresca scoring more goals.

Perhaps you need to watch them a bit more. Also, they are talented, but still are "kids". I think both of them have the talent to make it big, but are at least 3-4 years away from becoming a success. Giovinco is easily the most talented Italian kid I have seen since Andrea Pirlo almost a decade ago!! But he suffers from the same problem of physical presence.

Tweedle wrote:I've been looking out for Aquafresca this year bluey after your hyping him in the summer and he looks nothing other than average. Same for Ginvinco

Ginvinco is tiny. Maybe I haven't seen enough true. I'll keep an eye out. I know there's the whole 'Italian players take longer to mature' debate, but I'm not as convinced by it. If Ginvinco is truly as talented as Del Piero, then he should be able to produce the goods, to a degree, now

bluenine wrote:Osvaldo is 6 feet, and I checked, Trejo is thereabouts. You are right, Italy should "cup tie" them immediately - you cannot let the argies have talented tall strikers, they will become unbeatable!!

Messiah wrote:if any of these players are 6'0" and half as good as any of the 3 midgets then Argentina needs to do everything in their powers to ensure that at least one of them plays for them.

even if they play for the u-21 sides argentina can still call them up so its first when they play for the senior team they can cup tie them.
anyway i dont like the idea of using foreigners in a national team. for club football fine but not for international football which still has some soul in it, which is needed for it to be relevant. surprised that italy are behind it since they always seem to be producing the talent.

1. Tho many are calling him the "new DP" or the "new pirlo", they are only talking about his potential... he is still a kid, and a lot of development is ahead of him. So you have to take that in that context. He may or may not live up to that potential, but we will only know after 5-6 years when he is a regular player for his club for a few years. Same was said of his seniors like Montolivo and Aquilani 4 years ago, and the jury is still out on them.

2. 'Italian players take longer to mature' debate is basically a "Italian players are given chances at the senior side much later than in most other countries" debate. You have to be blind if you are not convinced of that, coz its a fact. Even Rossi and Lupoli said that very clearly. Giovinco has not yet started for lowly empoli, most days he does not even get to play. But he has done very well whenever he has played, and he is the top cat for the Azzurini. Ditto with Acquafresca at Cagliari, even tho he is the current top scorer for the azzurni! I have been following Italian football for 25 years, and have only seen two teenagers to debut for Italy... Maldini and Buffon, both at 19. Even supremely gifted players debuted for Italy post their azzurini careers, like Baggio (21), Zola (25), Totti (23), Del Piero (22), Pirlo (24) - and all of these were big time prodigies!! Don't tell me that Rooney and Theo Walcott are better than all of them?? Nope, its just that in Italy, they like to let a player mature a bit before giving them a start. Not saying whether this is better or worse, just saying that its how it is.

Tweedle wrote:Ginvinco is tiny. Maybe I haven't seen enough true. I'll keep an eye out. I know there's the whole 'Italian players take longer to mature' debate, but I'm not as convinced by it. If Ginvinco is truly as talented as Del Piero, then he should be able to produce the goods, to a degree, now

bluenine wrote:1 Don't tell me that Rooney and Theo Walcott are better than all of them?? Nope, its just that in Italy, they like to let a player mature a bit before giving them a start. Not saying whether this is better or worse, just saying that its how it is.

Well, Theo is 18, that's a bit unfair. Rooney is also just starting his career. He has the potential to be one of the greatest footballers to have ever lived. He had a blip last season but still managed 15+ league goals + a few important ones in the CL.

since his return to fitness this season he's been in imperious form and looks to finally have made the step up to the top bracket of footballers

Exactly. But if Theo was an Italian in Serie A, he would still be playing the primavera or sitting at the bench of a small team like Giovinco is now. Make no mistake of that, coz thats what almost EVERY Italian (no matter how talented) at that age does these days.

Baggio was a teenage legend, a professional at 15 for Vicenza and scored his first goal at 16. At 20, he had scored 15 goals in a season (some of them brilliant) for Fiorentina in Serie A, and 17 the next season. Still the Italian coaches made him wait till 21 before he got his Azzurri debut, and inspite of a hatrick for Italy (against Belgium if I remember correctly) at the age of 22, he only became an Azzurri regular at 23 after the 1990 WC exploits. Which just makes you realise that if Rooney were Italian, he would have only just made a debut for Italy, at best. Coz thats what Italy did with even the likes of Baggio, DP, Totti & co as well. You see what I mean?

Tweedle wrote:

bluenine wrote:1 Don't tell me that Rooney and Theo Walcott are better than all of them?? Nope, its just that in Italy, they like to let a player mature a bit before giving them a start. Not saying whether this is better or worse, just saying that its how it is.

Well, Theo is 18, that's a bit unfair. Rooney is also just starting his career. He has the potential to be one of the greatest footballers to have ever lived. He had a blip last season but still managed 15+ league goals + a few important ones in the CL.

since his return to fitness this season he's been in imperious form and looks to finally have made the step up to the top bracket of footballers

I know what you're saying. I'm not talking about national teams though, am I? I'm talking about league teams, and neither Ginvinco or Aquafresca have been setting the league alight so far.

I was talking about both if you read my posts again, they go hand in hand. Giovinco and Acquafresca are NOT starters for their teams, even tho both have played well and scored in the little time they have got.

Tweedle wrote:I know what you're saying. I'm not talking about national teams though, am I? I'm talking about league teams, and neither Ginvinco or Aquafresca have been setting the league alight so far.

To be fair, Aquafresca has had a fair share of play time, and as far as I'm aware hasn't exactly been prolific. He's also missed some real sitters along the way. As I've said, I've not seen as much as Ginvinco, but at the end of the day, there must be a reason that he's not getting into the team. Players like Zapata seem capable of getting into a first team at just 19 and I'm pretty sure if you signed Messi, he would.

bluenine wrote:I was talking about both if you read my posts again, they go hand in hand. Giovinco and Acquafresca are NOT starters for their teams, even tho both have played well and scored in the little time they have got.

Tweedle wrote:I know what you're saying. I'm not talking about national teams though, am I? I'm talking about league teams, and neither Ginvinco or Aquafresca have been setting the league alight so far.

As usual, you are factually incorrect again. Acquafresca has started 3 games for his club, and 6 games for the Azzurini this season... and he has scored 5 goals. If thats not prolific, I am not sure what is.

Messi already is experienced at top level. And Messi is the most talented kid on the planet. Thats very different.

Zapata? Your whole arguement is based on one player in 20 Serie A teams?? Thats why I said almost never, not never. How many teenagers start in the EPL btw? Get the picture?

Tweedle wrote:To be fair, Aquafresca has had a fair share of play time, and as far as I'm aware hasn't exactly been prolific. He's also missed some real sitters along the way. As I've said, I've not seen as much as Ginvinco, but at the end of the day, there must be a reason that he's not getting into the team. Players like Zapata seem capable of getting into a first team at just 19 and I'm pretty sure if you signed Messi, he would.

bluenine wrote:I was talking about both if you read my posts again, they go hand in hand. Giovinco and Acquafresca are NOT starters for their teams, even tho both have played well and scored in the little time they have got.

Tweedle wrote:I know what you're saying. I'm not talking about national teams though, am I? I'm talking about league teams, and neither Ginvinco or Aquafresca have been setting the league alight so far.

Under 21 doesn't count! Else we'd all be hailing Darren bent and Francis Jeffers as world class! 9 games for Cagliari, 1 goal. Its nothing at all special, in fact its poor!!!

He's 20 as well - Agbonlahor pisses all over him - scored more goals playing in a better team and younger to boot.

He has started 3 games for Cagliari this season, Tweedy. 1 goal.

Tweedle wrote:Under 21 doesn't count! Else we'd all be hailing Darren bent and Francis Jeffers as world class! 9 games for Cagliari, 1 goal. Its nothing at all special, in fact its poor!!!

He's 20 as well - Agbonlahor pisses all over him - scored more goals playing in a better team and younger to boot.

bluenine wrote:He has started 3 games for Cagliari this season, Tweedy. 1 goal.

Tweedle wrote:Under 21 doesn't count! Else we'd all be hailing Darren bent and Francis Jeffers as world class! 9 games for Cagliari, 1 goal. Its nothing at all special, in fact its poor!!!

He's 20 as well - Agbonlahor pisses all over him - scored more goals playing in a better team and younger to boot.

3 starts, 6 sub appearances - what it says on the two statistics sites I've looked at anyway.

Lets come back to the topic. So you wanna compare the number of teenagers playing in EPL and Serie A regularily?? That should give you an good idea of what I am talking about...

By teenagers do you mean 19 and under? Because Acquafresca is 20.

Sounds similar to Bojan. One goal in four games, but in truth Bojan has only started one game, and had brief cameos in the others. Gio has yet score and he's now featured 5/6 times, but only one start also.

yeah, that will give you a telling statistic of how in Italy young players are not given a chance till much later, as compared to most other leagues... does not matter how good or talented they are, they are allowed to mature a bit before they become regulars. That was the point you were argueing about, right?

Tweedle wrote:By teenagers do you mean 19 and under? Because Acquafresca is 20.