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    United = 1 man team

    Chocolate Thunder
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    Post by Chocolate Thunder Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:42 pm

    Finally some in the press are starting to comment on the one man team Utd are. For too long our 2 best players have been used as a stick to beat us as a 2 man team, while Ronadlo is seen as brilliant because he is "leading utd so well"

    Ronaldo's brilliance masks United's problems

    A combination of conservative tactics and poor forward play could yet cost United dearly

    Paul DoyleMarch 19, 2008 9:55 PM

    Manchester United may have gone three points clear at the top of the table and been boosted by Chelsea's failure to beat Spurs, but they are still far from certain to be champions of England, let alone of Europe.

    Many big games await Sir Alex Ferguson's men and each will present challenges that they have previously failed. There's the forthcoming clashes with Liverpool, Arsenal, Roma and Chelsea, of course. But the trips to Blackburn, where United have lost in three of the last five seasons, and to Middlesbrough, the most perverse team in the country in that no matter how deep the rut they appear to be in they're always apt to upset the big four, will also be seriously hazardous - remember how impotent United looked when flopping at humdrum sides such as Manchester City, West Ham and, of course, Bolton earlier in this campaign? And the last-day-of-the-season trip to Wigan's bog promises to be just as unpleasant.

    Why have United at times looked feeble away to beefy and well-drilled underdogs? For the same reason that Bolton controlled much of the play tonight - ie because United's midfield often struggles to assert itself. Darren Fletcher is patently not part of the manager's first-choice central pairing, but Anderson might be and he was bypassed for long periods tonight.

    It will be fascinating to see who Ferguson fields in the centre against Liverpool on Sunday and in the remaining major matches this season. The choice isn't obvious. Paul Scholes' influence has inevitably waned as his mobility has declined. Owen Hargreaves has been hampered by injury and frequently looked less than fully fit (presumably the decision to deploy him at right-back tonight was designed to give him a relatively easy work-out ahead of the bigger games in store). Michael Carrick's passing often compensates for his relative lack of dynamism but, like the other options, he rarely offers a goal threat: while Steven Gerrard, Cesc Fabregas and Frank Lampard bang in the goals elsewhere, United's five central midfielders have between them mustered three league goals this season.

    Few would expect those players to score more. Few goals from central midfield is, then, part of the manager's plan. Their job is exclusively to feed the forwards. The problem is United's forward are not reliable.

    Wayne Rooney has been particularly profligate, and in particularly unforgivable fashion. He has exquisite skills, instinctive ingenuity and natural warrior spirit; but that instinct has become infected and his spirit soiled - the result is awful finishing. The wonky shooting could be borne of sloppiness. But his demeanour, the creeping strut in his game, suggest something even less excusable - a penchant for the stupidly ostentatious. It seems he overcomplicates things not because of an idealistic, Arsenalesque commitment to artistic purity, but because of a grubby lust to inflate the hype around him, to soup up his image. The botched lobs at home to Newcastle or the foiled attempts to saunter into the net with the ball during the Cup defeat by Portsmouth suggested that to him a clear sight of the net are not so much a chance to score a goal as an opportunity to fatten his reputation. Ronaldo, for one, is much more focused; much less arrogant. The irony, then, is that Rooney's lack of humility accounts for his modest goal tally this season.

    Industrious Carlos Tevez's focus doesn't look blurred. His aim and touch just seem to be unsure, as was evident as early as the eighth minute tonight when he chested down a ball six yards from goal then swiped at fresh air. The coolness that Rooney radiates when at his best is a quality bestowed on a chosen few - and Tevez isn't one of them. Louis Saha is a far sharper striker. When fully fit. But when, and for how long, will that be?

    Out wide Nani is, understandably, immature. The 21-year-old's decision-making on the ball needs fine-tuning (witness his choice to shoot from 30 yards in the 83rd of tonight's game when he had two team-mates in far better positions) and his propensity to disappear for long periods in games, such as tonight's, is another symptom of his youth.

    The upshot of all this, as was demonstrated again tonight, is that defensively solid United are over-reliant for goals on Ronaldo, whose brilliance has regularly rescued them this season, masking the shortcomings of both the manager and some of his team-mates. Twenty-four league goals so far represents a stupendous return for the Portuguese; if he were to get injured or suspended or simply have a couple of off-days during the run-in, however, a more pertinent statistic may be his number of league assists - a paltry three, which shows how often his team-mates have spurned the chances he's created for them.

    United have spoken much recently of how their experience could help them in the run-in. But the fact is attitude adjustment is needed at Old Trafford. Not least from Ferguson, whose passive formations against the big teams, particularly away in the Champions League, and apparent tolerance of slackness up front, encourage a Ronaldo-dependency that could yet sabotage their quest for trophies.


    Ronaldo's brilliance masks United's problems | Sport | Guardian Unlimited

    and please remember, don't hate the playa, hate United......Thank You wave
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:46 pm

    imagine if Carra broke his leg on Sunday! Wouldn't that be awesome.
    Chocolate Thunder
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    Post by Chocolate Thunder Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:47 pm

    Glenn With The Wind™️ wrote:imagine if Carra broke his leg on Sunday! Wouldn't that be awesome.

    Why would I imagine that doofus geek
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    Post by Glenarch of the Glen Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:48 pm

    Broke Ronaldo's leg you doofus Very Happy
    Chocolate Thunder
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    Post by Chocolate Thunder Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:49 pm

    Glenn With The Wind™️ wrote:Broke Ronaldo's leg you doofus Very Happy

    self pwned Crying or Very sad
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    Post by COTR Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:51 pm

    It's a very fair reflection on the game last night

    bolton (yes bolton) outplayed united for long periods

    united have been playing 'poor' football most of the season. It is a very ugly brand to watch which is why it is a shock to see some people refer to it as being good.

    they are defensively solid with rio and vidic having great seasons. when ronaldo can chip in with set pieces or one moment in a game this explains why they are where they are in the league.

    They remind me of the mourinho chelsea team, defensively relentless and just bludgening teams to death going forward rather than playing football


    Has anyone other than ronaldo actually scored for united recently ?


    elephant


    Last edited by COTR on Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Chocolate Thunder Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:51 pm

    and yes it would be fairly sweet, hopefully Riise will take a free kick again.............Alan Smith Laughing cheers
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    Post by Machiavel Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:12 pm

    COTR wrote:It's a very fair reflection on the game last night

    bolton (yes bolton) outplayed united for long periods

    united have been playing 'poor' football most of the season. It is a very ugly brand to watch which is why it is a shock to see some people refer to it as being good.

    they are defensively solid with rio and vidic having great seasons. when ronaldo can chip in with set pieces or one moment in a game this explains why they are where they are in the league.

    They remind me of the mourinho chelsea team, defensively relentless and just bludgening teams to death going forward rather than playing football


    Has anyone other than ronaldo actually scored for united recently ?


    elephant

    Fletcher and Anderson did not work yesterday, that had to be the worst game I’ve seen Fletcher play for a long time, back to the dark ages when people were calling for his head … should only play against Arsenal, Says I !

    Carrick who lets be honest has been the most inform CM should have played, maybe SAF rested him for the Liverpool game. I’ve said this past month, Carrick should be the 1st name on the team sheet (after Ronaldo Very Happy) being a DLP and especially last season when he played with Scholes, it’s rare for him to venture forward and get a goal his only option is from long range .. But he has shown he is capable of managing. But I would never question his passing ability in recent weeks, really effective.

    All great teams are built from the back .. Manchester United have created plenty of chances in their last 3 games, it’s a question of finishing them. If they are to win the league they must do this on a consistent basis in their last 8 games, starting against Liverpool this Sunday.
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    Post by shazlx Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:24 pm

    Some correct comments particularly about the central midfielders but the idea that the forwards have missed countless opportunities created by FRonaldo is just incorrect. Most of FRonaldo's goals have come from other people genius specifically Rooney and Evra who have been providing most of ManU's creativity and drive whilst Giggs has been MIA, FRonaldo has been the greedy Lampard wannabe and Tevez doing whatever he does. The comment about Rooney and ego non-Arsenal type of over elaboration is also incorrect. I see no reason why such an unselfish player would do what he has been accused of doing. Maybe, just maybe, he's a $h!t finisher?

    It's not possible for a non-creative poacher to be a one man team. If anything he is performing worse than last season and is being carried by others, particularly the defence.

    Also comparing Lampard with Gerrard's and Cesc's goal contributions is quite ridiculous considering a some what large chunk of his goals have come in a few games.
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    Post by Chocolate Thunder Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:34 pm

    Just reading back on the article and did some research.
    I had no idea that United's central midfield players only scored 3 goals the whole season.

    It's weird too, if you look at United's wingers and strikers, they are superior to ours in nearly every way but they don't seem to be hitting the back of the net either:

    League Goals - United:

    Ronaldo 24
    Tevez 11
    Saha 5
    Giggs 2
    Nani 2
    Park 1
    Scholes 1

    Compared to the 'pool:

    Torres 20
    Gerrard 10
    Babel 4
    Kuyt 3
    Benayoun 3
    Voronin 3
    Crouch 2
    Pennant 1
    Aurelio 1

    A major part of what seperates both clubs is how solid United are at the back as which has been already mentioned. We have made so many bad mistakes this season that have cost anything up to 10 points. United just have not done that and credit to them in the regards.

    As well I came across the goal totals for both teams and I found the totals and the general outline of who has scored to be pretty astonishing.

    United :
    Ronaldo 33
    Tevez 15
    Rooney 13
    Saha 5
    Ferdinand 3
    Giggs 3
    Nani 3
    Fletcher 2
    Pique 2
    Carrick 1
    Hargreaves 1
    Park 1
    Scholes 1
    Vidic 1
    (own goals) 2
    Total 84 goals

    Liverpool:
    Torres 27
    Gerrard 19
    Benayoun 10
    Kuyt 9
    Babel 8
    Crouch 8
    Voronin 4
    Hyypia 3
    Xabi Alonso 2
    Aurelio 1
    El Zhar 1
    Lucas 1
    Mascherano 1
    Pennant 1
    Sissoko 1
    (own goals) 3
    Total 99 goals
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    Post by Machiavel Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:40 pm

    Only in the League ‘which matters’. Manchester United (thanks to 39% of goals from CR7) outscores Liverpool. To be fair how many games has each individual CM have played..Carrick, Hargreaves & Scholes have had their fair share of injures + at times when all available one or two would be rested. I’ve talked about the limitations to Carricks ( whom is the most inform of the central midfielders in the team) game as a DLP I'm not expecting goals but as the team plays free flowing football he can get forward and contribute. Goals will always be looked upon as the final stat.


    Last edited by the Bojan identity on Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
    shazlx
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    Post by shazlx Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:41 pm

    Ade Alves wrote:Just reading back on the article and did some research.
    I had no idea that United's central midfield players only scored 3 goals the whole season.

    It's weird too, if you look at United's wingers and strikers, they are superior to ours in nearly every way but they don't seem to be hitting the back of the net either:

    League Goals - United:

    Ronaldo 24
    Tevez 11
    Saha 5
    Giggs 2
    Nani 2
    Park 1
    Scholes 1

    Compared to the 'pool:

    Torres 20
    Gerrard 10
    Babel 4
    Kuyt 3
    Benayoun 3
    Voronin 3
    Crouch 2
    Pennant 1
    Aurelio 1

    A major part of what seperates both clubs is how solid United are at the back as which has been already mentioned. We have made so many bad mistakes this season that have cost anything up to 10 points. United just have not done that and credit to them in the regards.

    As well I came across the goal totals for both teams and I found the totals and the general outline of who has scored to be pretty astonishing.

    United :
    Ronaldo 33
    Tevez 15
    Rooney 13
    Saha 5
    Ferdinand 3
    Giggs 3
    Nani 3
    Fletcher 2
    Pique 2
    Carrick 1
    Hargreaves 1
    Park 1
    Scholes 1
    Vidic 1
    (own goals) 2
    Total 84 goals

    Liverpool:
    Torres 27
    Gerrard 19
    Benayoun 10
    Kuyt 9
    Babel 8
    Crouch 8
    Voronin 4
    Hyypia 3
    Xabi Alonso 2
    Aurelio 1
    El Zhar 1
    Lucas 1
    Mascherano 1
    Pennant 1
    Sissoko 1
    (own goals) 3
    Total 99 goals
    These are a set of very misleading stats. What they don't take into account is that Liverpool have racked up their goal count by 6-0/ 8-0.. scorelines and have had more 0-0 scores than ManU. ManU do rely heavily on their defence but they still manage to get the 1-0 scoreline whether its through GDP, cheating, or ref's help or even magic Shocked.
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    Post by Batman Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:48 pm

    COTR wrote:It's a very fair reflection on the game last night

    bolton (yes bolton) outplayed united for long periods

    We were playing in 2nd gear because we a got a big game coming up against you guys on sunday.

    united have been playing 'poor' football most of the season. It is a very ugly brand to watch which is why it is a shock to see some people refer to it as being good.

    I'll take your word for it. as a liverpool fan, you will know what its like to watch poor football.

    they are defensively solid with rio and vidic having great seasons. when ronaldo can chip in with set pieces or one moment in a game this explains why they are where they are in the league.

    Best defense and best attack in the league.

    F:61, A:15


    ok

    They remind me of the mourinho chelsea team, defensively relentless and just bludgening teams to death going forward rather than playing football

    What type of team did we remind you of last season?

    Mourinho's chelsea team played with full backs that didn't go past the halfway line. their attack consisted of knocking long balls to Drogba.

    Against Man Utd you will find that opposition teams will create chances to score(but won't) because of our style of play.


    Has anyone other than ronaldo actually scored for united recently ?

    Hargreaves, Park

    elephant

    This season has been a bit of transitional one.

    Two key players from last season, Giggs and Scholes are a year older and not as good.

    Anderson and Nani, two young players in their first season in the Prem.

    Rooney and Tevez upfront, a new strike partnership.

    Rooney and Ronaldo adjusting their style of play for the good of the team.
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    Post by L.r.d Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:48 am

    Ade Alves wrote:and yes it would be fairly sweet, hopefully Riise will take a free kick again.............Alan Smith Laughing cheers

    Well it's funny because it was Alan Smith. But if it were a Liverpool player you would be crying if anyone made a post like that Rolling Eyes


    The article to me seems like it simply wants to buck the trend rather than offer any real insight. it and COTR talk about Bolton having a fair share of possession on wednesday. Well it was 2-0 after 20 minutes. With a team making 8 changes from the last game and with a huge game on sunday. It made perfect sense to take it easy and not go all out to make it 4 or 5. And in the first half it could have been a few more anyway.

    I notice he made no mention of the 1-4 win at villa and 4-0 win against Arsenal without Ronaldo.

    People called Liverpool a one man team because Liverpool had a bunch of really average to good players and one very very good this was not one of the best teams in the world at any stage. This Man Utd team is rated as the best team around right now, thats not just because of one player.

    Best defence in the league and scored the most goals in the league these are some stats again left out.....
    Vidic and Rio both two of the best defenders around. Evra possibly the best left back in the world. Rooney is a wc player. Fail to see how this translates into a one man team.

    The bad away days is simply explained by who was missing in a few of them. Away to Bolton Rooney and Saha were out leaving Tevez who cant play upfront on his own having to do just that. Same thing at man city away. Not really to do with anything else. The lack of goals from central midfield is actually a problem but in time most likely Anderson will begin to score more regularly.

    @ shalx. Of course they are not the 'Arsenal type of player' they are winners who win things cheers
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:17 am

    L r d wrote:
    Ade Alves wrote:and yes it would be fairly sweet, hopefully Riise will take a free kick again.............Alan Smith Laughing cheers

    Well it's funny because it was Alan Smith. But if it were a Liverpool player you would be crying if anyone made a post like that Rolling Eyes

    As with Glenn's comment about Carragher breaking Ronaldo's leg - if I'd said that about an Arsenal player then the peanut gallery would be demanding a ban. Says something about bias on this board.

    As to the article, this gem stood out:
    Wayne Rooney has been particularly profligate, and in particularly
    unforgivable fashion. He has exquisite skills, instinctive ingenuity
    and natural warrior spirit; but that instinct has become infected and
    his spirit soiled - the result is awful finishing. The wonky shooting
    could be borne of sloppiness. But his demeanour, the creeping strut in
    his game, suggest something even less excusable - a penchant for the
    stupidly ostentatious. It seems he overcomplicates things not because
    of an idealistic, Arsenalesque commitment to artistic purity, but
    because of a grubby lust to inflate the hype around him, to soup up his
    image.

    If Arsenal were so committed to 'artistic purity' then why would they have scored so many goals this season from set pieces, long balls and long range shots?

    Gotta love the desperate need to get some Arsenal hype into any anti-ManYoo article. Arsenal are all about image, and couldn't care less about artistry. Being the dirtiest side in England for 10 years running proves that...
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:23 am

    Ade Alves, you are a strange person.
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    Post by Nightwing Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:30 pm

    COTR wrote:It's a very fair reflection on the game last night

    bolton (yes bolton) outplayed united for long periods

    united have been playing 'poor' football most of the season. It is a very ugly brand to watch which is why it is a shock to see some people refer to it as being good.

    they are defensively solid with rio and vidic having great seasons. when ronaldo can chip in with set pieces or one moment in a game this explains why they are where they are in the league.

    They remind me of the mourinho chelsea team, defensively relentless and just bludgening teams to death going forward rather than playing football


    Has anyone other than ronaldo actually scored for united recently ?


    elephant

    You are talking utter Cr@p sir...you envy has blinded ye to such a degree!!! Doh
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    Post by robert Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:48 pm

    Nothing new in this article. Ronaldo is not playing as well as last season, we know this. Partly because of the profligacy of others partly because he's doing a lampard impression.

    Goals from midfield have been a constant concern of most man utd fans on this board ever since 2 seasons ago quite frankly. Article writer needs to update himself.
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:04 pm

    Nightwing wrote:
    COTR wrote:It's a very fair reflection on the game last night

    bolton (yes bolton) outplayed united for long periods

    united have been playing 'poor' football most of the season. It is a very ugly brand to watch which is why it is a shock to see some people refer to it as being good.

    they are defensively solid with rio and vidic having great seasons. when ronaldo can chip in with set pieces or one moment in a game this explains why they are where they are in the league.

    They remind me of the mourinho chelsea team, defensively relentless and just bludgening teams to death going forward rather than playing football


    Has anyone other than ronaldo actually scored for united recently ?


    elephant

    You are talking utter Cr@p sir...you envy has blinded ye to such a degree!!! Doh

    N18wing just wondering how many time you have gone to see United play at Old Trafford sir. Is it once or twice?
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    Post by Chocolate Thunder Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:40 pm

    The Easter Bunny wrote:Ade Alves, you are a strange person.

    You call me strange Laugh Ouch Sad

    Punty isn't it, I have never actually said anything to you and you to me so why all of a sudden, actually on second thought I just don't care what you think of me ok

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