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    A blog entry re: plastic fans

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    Post by The-Frank-Tavern Thu May 22, 2008 4:33 pm

    Thought id post the blog entry from a Reading fan and a trainee journo:



    The 2007-2008 Premier League season came to a gripping end this past
    Sunday with crucial decisions over Championships and relegation both
    being decided on the final day. It was once again Manchester United,
    the world's most powerful football club who retained their crown with a
    team who can almost certainly claim to be one of the finest in the
    modern era. The saddest thing about it is the soulless, hollow
    celbrations which will be mirrored throughout the world. From Brixton
    to Beijing, Durbanville to Dublin there will be scores of 'fans'
    pretending to get excited about yet another title. The problem is I
    don't believe them anymore. I think that they are all fakes. How can
    you take pleasure in something which you played no part in? For the
    vast, vast majority of United 'fans' (surveys have showed that over 90%
    of the club's 'support' have never been to Old Trafford) the United
    players are just figures on a television screen. Nothing more. To be a
    Manchester United 'fan' is to indulge in a fantasy that you are
    actually part of something.

    Ferguson, Charlton and Kenyon have all talked of being part of the
    'great United dynasty' on numerous occasions in the past. To a great
    extent this is undoubtedly true as many great players have lifted many
    important trophies in their illustrious history. However, my overiding
    feeling for the vast majority of their fans will forever be sympathy.
    Sympathy for their situation. Their soulless, empty, hollow existence.
    For there will always be a limit to the joy which they can extract from
    football. There will always be a limit to the joy they can get from
    Cristiano Ronaldo's latest free kick or the most recent shiny piece of
    silverware. This is because of the simple fact that the vast, vast,
    vast, vast (lets just say vast x25 and leave it at that) majority of
    them are viewing such events from armchairs, pubs and living rooms
    worldwide in general. It is beacuse of this that I don't believe them.

    However, your main feeling towards them must always be one of sympathy.
    Just 24 hours before Ryan Giggs held aloft the Premier League title for
    the 10th time in 16 seasons, Ebbsfleet United competed with Torquay for
    the F.A Carlsberg trophy. It was in this game that a fantastic
    illustartion of the symapthy I have for Manchjester United 'fans'
    everywhere can be put into a much needed context. Helen Chamberlain,
    television personality and a devoted Torquay supporter was spotted by
    the Sky Sports cameras reacting to goalkeeper Martin Rice saving a
    penalty for the Conference outfit. It really was something to behold as
    her facial contortions were matched by the unusual shapes her body
    attempted to make as she lived through the epic drama of the drawn out
    save. The reason her emotion was so believable? Because why would
    anyone, anywhere fake emotion about a Torquay penalty save. The reason
    it meant so very much to her? Because success for a Torquay supporter
    can probably be measured on a similar scale to that which is used to
    measure how many people feel George Bush's presidency has been an
    effective one.

    I do not now, and never will feel that it is possible to underplay the
    importance of the issue of locality when measuring somebodys attachment
    to any sporting team. To be born and bred in an area is to know that
    place, for all it's flaws, better than anywhere else in the world. You
    feel attachemnt for buildings that other people would feel revulsion,
    and you feel empathy for people that others would feel pity. Therefore,
    if you are particularly inclined, your association with the your local
    football, rugby, tennis, croquet or tiddlywinks club is something
    equally inexplicable. You feel part of it because you have lived
    through the good and deplorable periods in equal measure. You can also
    probably remember the names of obscure players from obscure times at
    the club and your enthusiasm has been as untempered by your 1993
    mediocre joe bloggs cup win as it was by your 2008 relegation to the
    'who gives a toss' division. The many, many, many, many (again we'l
    just use the many x25 rule) Mnchester United fans can never have such a
    connection because the vast majority of them weren't there for the bad
    times. They can't remember any bad times. They cant name you obscure
    players from obscure periods because the didn't suffer through the
    eternal misery of looking at his fecking name every single home fixture.

    As much as it sounds like bitterness or jealousy, I can assure you that
    is not the overiding feeling which exists at time like this. Yesterday
    Reading Football Club were relegated from the Premier League and the
    pain caused by that event is reasssuringly real. Do you really think
    that all the Manchester United 'fans' can say the same? Or, is it more
    accurate to suggest that as the United juggernaut surges to one trophy
    after another, the feelings are strangely underwhelming. Reminiscent of
    Christmas morning without the toy garage you requested from Ma and Pa.
    Good Luck to you all, United fans of the world. You will never know my
    pain, just as you will never know my joy!
    Rasiak-9
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    Post by Rasiak-9 Thu May 22, 2008 5:05 pm

    Its so so true.

    The bullshit "heartbreak" by Chelsea "fans" who watched the CL final adds insult to the still smarting injury of us losing the shootout to Derby last year (still the most painful moment i've had in football - most definately worse than being relegated, definately)
    Sgoater1
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    Post by Sgoater1 Thu May 22, 2008 5:14 pm

    Brilliant article, very ture imo.
    Fey
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    Post by Fey Thu May 22, 2008 6:11 pm

    It's the truth to a certain extent. I go to Feyenoord for years now, but if im dead the club wont miss me...so am I really part of that club then? 10 plastic fans, who never visit the stadium but buy a shirt every once in a while are much more useful to them.

    Its a bit bitter towards Utd though Laughing
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    Post by SuperMario Thu May 22, 2008 7:18 pm

    Don't think where you're born can prevent you from being a real fan. There are countless Feyenoord fans from all over the country (or abraod, England, Belgium), who sacrifice far more than me to go to every match.

    For me it's only about how gutted you are when you lose & what you sacrifice for your club.

    Don't care about those nationwide support polls (always amazed Feyenoord does so well, we're nearly as popular as Ajax). What's significance of someone, who prefers hockey, saying Ajax is his favourite footy club?

    Imo it's bloody obvious most of those millions of fans are plastics.
    Fey
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    Post by Fey Thu May 22, 2008 7:29 pm

    Well I remember that documentary that was about a couple of Arsenal fans that were just hanging out around Highbury because they didnt have the money to enter the stadium. For me such kind of people are better fans then lets say people who get a seasonticket through their work.

    Feyenoord is by far the biggest club in our country when it comes to support. Ajax and PSV dont come close, ajax is too many gloryhunters and PSV is just too local.
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Thu May 22, 2008 7:36 pm

    Fey wrote:Well I remember that documentary that was about a couple of Arsenal fans that were just hanging out around Highbury because they didnt have the money to enter the stadium. For me such kind of people are better fans then lets say people who get a seasonticket through their work.

    Feyenoord is by far the biggest club in our country when it comes to support. Ajax and PSV dont come close, ajax is too many gloryhunters and PSV is just too local.
    Very true.

    Second part too, even Ajax fans say so.
    Rasiak-9
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    Post by Rasiak-9 Thu May 22, 2008 9:10 pm

    This is the tragically sad thing, its getting to the point where you quite simply don't need fans for the wellbeing a football club.

    Gone are the days when the terraces were the main source of income through the ticket gates and the heart and soul of the club, nowadays you can do what the MK Dons founder did, buy the website for the club 4 years before Wimbledon became the MK Dons (true story by the way) safe in the knowledge that fans, true fans, simply do not matter in todays football world.

    THAT; not the fact that a team like Chelsea can buy their way to success without any footballing ethic or tradition, THAT, is the real tragedy caused by just how much money there is in football.
    Khadrim
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    Post by Khadrim Thu May 22, 2008 9:48 pm

    Think this is just tripe if you ask me. Sounds like the old 4 yorkshiremen sketch to me. You're not a real fan because you haven't suffered like I have. Oh please. Who the f@ck is he to say whetherthe emotional attachment of someone who has never been lucky enough to go to a game is deemed second rate and fake. We get plenty of this at American Fulham supporters (some who actually have been to games when here as a tourist) . The so-called true fans who abuse them are a bunch of tossers and so is the author.
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    Post by Dwarf Thu May 22, 2008 10:13 pm

    It all breaks down when you realise what he's actually saying.

    He's criticising fans that have no real attachment for a club and praising fans that have no real attachment to a club. Every fan can develop a real attraction to a club, while every club has fans with a plastic attachment towards, it's entirely dependent on there up bringing.

    I have no attachment to my home City and I have no real attachment to my Country. The only time I have an allegiance is on forum like this, where my mind has been sufficiently corrupted for me not to remain neutral on just about every sport.
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    Post by forza_rossi Thu May 22, 2008 10:35 pm

    Khadrim wrote:Think this is just tripe if you ask me. Sounds like the old 4 yorkshiremen sketch to me. You're not a real fan because you haven't suffered like I have. Oh please. Who the f@ck is he to say whetherthe emotional attachment of someone who has never been lucky enough to go to a game is deemed second rate and fake. We get plenty of this at American Fulham supporters (some who actually have been to games when here as a tourist) . The so-called true fans who abuse them are a bunch of tossers and so is the author.
    Ale
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    Post by Bashmachkin Thu May 22, 2008 11:01 pm

    I think Dwarf makes a valid and interesting point.

    I certainly don't think that, to be or to be classed a true fan, you have to live in or know well the area which your team represents, or that you have to regularly attend your team's games. There's another thread on here, by Oleguer, asking everyone how many times they've seen their team play - from 1992 until the end of 2005, when I moved to Sweden, I went to around 15 Newcastle matches a season, so I've been to well over 100 of their games in my time - now I only go to a couple a season - yet I'd say that I follow the team more closely, and certainly just as if not more passionately now than I did during periods in which I regularly attended the games. And whilst I was born near Newcastle, and my Father and Grandfather lived in Newcastle for a significant part of their lives, I don't know every detail or nuance of the city by any means. I don't think such knowledge is required of a true supporter, because I'm not sure how many clubs really do share a temperament with the city in which they're based - and besides, what is shared is shared via the fans, so knowledge of a club, of its history, and of its fans is all that is needed.

    On the issue of fans, I do think spending time, at matches, in pubs, wherever, with other fans of the club can help you to understand the club more fully, to understand its history and the ideals of its supporters. Of course, you're only ever going to come into contact with a minority of views. And ultimately, everyone will understand their club in a slightly different way - a person who doesn't have much direct contact with the club or with the supporters, provided they're interested, and watch the games, will still be able to genuinely care about the club in a particular, but still in a strong way. I think how important it is to attend games and meet other fans, how much this helps a person identify with and feel for a club, will depend on the type of person, the type of fan involved. I enjoy going to games, but I'm not the type who really feeds off other supporters.

    On Dwarf's point, I am similar, in that I feel no real allegiance to my city or my country. I think I was probably fortunate with Newcastle, and Newcastle fortunate with me, in that I started following them when I was very young, and that young support coincided with Keegan's first period managing the club. I started attending games regularly in the 1992/93 promotion season, with everyone optimistic, with a manager who had us playing excellent football - and though I'm sure I would still support the club if things hadn't coincided like this, still I imagine that it helped make me really passionate and really interested in the club.
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    Post by L.r.d Thu May 22, 2008 11:46 pm

    Only quickly browsed through the blog. Another one of those you're a real fan because you support a $h!te team things again Laughing
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    Post by Luso Fri May 23, 2008 4:04 am

    First point, Fey's avatar... won't say anything else about that.

    I do see a big case for this 'fans' theory; there are plenty of them all over the world - those that simply start following a club just because they're the flavour of the month.

    Suddenly, where there had previously never been any, I find Chelsea fans around my city. These kids don't even watch football, they don't even call it football for that matter, but they're Cheslea 'fans'... Manchester United/Real Madird are the same thing just older.

    You can tell me people on the other side of the world, from diferent cultures, that have absolutely no contact with England or Manchester 'love' Utd... but I just don't buy it.

    You need to feel the club.. you need to feel the pain in your heart when things go bad... you need to have trouble speaking about losses years after they've happened ... you need to have sleepless nights in anticipation to matches... and dispair once everything's gone to $h!t and your dreams are crushed - you need all that in oreder to truly feel a victory and all it's glory.

    There really is no feeling like being able to push your club on to victory and sing along with the other supporters once the 3pts are yours...


    Last edited by Luso on Fri May 23, 2008 12:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by forza_rossi Fri May 23, 2008 5:48 am

    Luso i agree with you but then why are all the fans who are loyal get painted with the same brush just because they cannot make it to games due to geographical/financial reasons? You fall in love with a football team. Its just one of those things.
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    Post by Luso Fri May 23, 2008 12:22 pm

    forza_rossi wrote:Luso i agree with you but then why are all the fans who are loyal get painted with the same brush just because they cannot make it to games due to geographical/financial reasons? You fall in love with a football team. Its just one of those things.

    That's my point specifically; I can't make it to games because I'm simply not in the country. That said, when I do find myself in Portugal... I get myself to a stadium Very Happy

    However, even those in the country can't always go to the matches due to the high prices as you've mentioned, still I believe those make an effort as much as they can, and even though they don't always (or really never) go they do feel the club just as much... they would go if they could.

    As for these guys that don't know a thing about 'their' club, and yet parade around in expensive jerseys, TBH I don't consider them real supporters.

    Rule of thumb - if you don't feel like punching a guy that makes a smart-ass comment about your club in the head, then you have no business calling yourself a fan. Ale
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    Post by Luso Fri May 23, 2008 12:35 pm

    @Bash

    I understand your point abut feeling the club more now that you're far away; it's like you crave it now, when before it was all around you and as such you didn't need to 'try' so hard to have news/information about the club and its situation.

    It's like that with patriotism too , if you are patriotic, with many people outside their countries of origin displaying nationalisitc ferver to a far higher degree than those still in the country.
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan!
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Fri May 23, 2008 3:03 pm

    I live in Canada, and I, for one, will not question that a person living in Milan, who goes to at least 12 games a season, has a far more enriching experience than I ever will (unless I move to Italy).

    Everyone has a different attachment to their club. I have supported Milan since I was about 9. That is a long time. What galls me is not global support for a club, but rather fickle support for a club.

    I know someone who supported Southampton. When they were relegated he started supporting Arsenal because of Thierry Henry. Since Henry left, he now supports Manchester United. On Wednesday, he was "celebrating" with a Manchester United jersey. If that is not indecent and nauseating, then I don't know what is. It's an abomination, and we should not shy away from calling it thus.
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    Post by Bashmachkin Fri May 23, 2008 3:25 pm

    Luso wrote:@Bash

    I understand your point abut feeling the club more now that you're far away; it's like you crave it now, when before it was all around you and as such you didn't need to 'try' so hard to have news/information about the club and its situation.

    It's like that with patriotism too , if you are patriotic, with many people outside their countries of origin displaying nationalisitc ferver to a far higher degree than those still in the country.

    Yes, I think that's certainly a large part of it - to make up for not being able to attend the games, I more actively keep up to date with any news involving the club. I'm also able to watch more games live on the television here in Sweden than I was able to watch in England - Swedish digital television often has around seven live Premiership games each weekend - and I think I'm more keen to watch every game here than I would be back in England, again because this makes up for not being able to attend the games in person. Like I say, I have attended games regularly in the past, and I'm sure that doing so can help when it comes to forming an attachment with a club, when it comes to understanding the club - but at the same time, I imagine that even someone who has never been to a match can, by watching games on TV, by informing themselves as regards the club's traditions, players, fans, whatever, form a specific and meaningful relationship with a club.

    Again, I'm not patriotic at all, but football is one of the things I miss when I'm not in England. I find it a little sorry to consider someone living away from their home country, and pining for it and displaying much nationalistic fervour - yet I've lost count of the number of times when, staggering out of a Swedish pub, or cafe, or konditori, or Ikea, snorting and bellowing such songs as 'Toon Toon Army Army!' and 'Walking in a Keegan Wonderland', I've engaged in brawls with passers-by who have looked at me funnily, questioning my club and my pride, before stumbling off into the night as my final, drawn-out, emboldened wail of 'Newcastle!' echoes across the town square.
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    Post by Super Progress Fri May 23, 2008 3:45 pm

    Even if i lived in Madrid im not so sure that i would go to games. I never really enjoyed games that much the few times i have been to stadiums here. i just prefer to see it at home or in a bar. i like that there is alot of noise when i watch the games but i prefer to be quiet when im in the stadium so i would prob fit in well with the types of people that golsud hates.
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    Post by Luso Sat May 24, 2008 5:34 am

    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I live in Canada, and I, for one, will not question that a person living in Milan, who goes to at least 12 games a season, has a far more enriching experience than I ever will (unless I move to Italy).

    Everyone has a different attachment to their club. I have supported Milan since I was about 9. That is a long time. What galls me is not global support for a club, but rather fickle support for a club.

    I know someone who supported Southampton. When they were relegated he started supporting Arsenal because of Thierry Henry. Since Henry left, he now supports Manchester United. On Wednesday, he was "celebrating" with a Manchester United jersey. If that is not indecent and nauseating, then I don't know what is. It's an abomination, and we should not shy away from calling it thus.

    ok
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    Post by Luso Sat May 24, 2008 5:47 am

    Bashmachkin wrote:
    Luso wrote:@Bash

    I understand your point abut feeling the club more now that you're far away; it's like you crave it now, when before it was all around you and as such you didn't need to 'try' so hard to have news/information about the club and its situation.

    It's like that with patriotism too , if you are patriotic, with many people outside their countries of origin displaying nationalisitc ferver to a far higher degree than those still in the country.

    Yes, I think that's certainly a large part of it - to make up for not being able to attend the games, I more actively keep up to date with any news involving the club. I'm also able to watch more games live on the television here in Sweden than I was able to watch in England - Swedish digital television often has around seven live Premiership games each weekend - and I think I'm more keen to watch every game here than I would be back in England, again because this makes up for not being able to attend the games in person. Like I say, I have attended games regularly in the past, and I'm sure that doing so can help when it comes to forming an attachment with a club, when it comes to understanding the club - but at the same time, I imagine that even someone who has never been to a match can, by watching games on TV, by informing themselves as regards the club's traditions, players, fans, whatever, form a specific and meaningful relationship with a club.

    Again, I'm not patriotic at all, but football is one of the things I miss when I'm not in England. I find it a little sorry to consider someone living away from their home country, and pining for it and displaying much nationalistic fervour - yet I've lost count of the number of times when, staggering out of a Swedish pub, or cafe, or konditori, or Ikea, snorting and bellowing such songs as 'Toon Toon Army Army!' and 'Walking in a Keegan Wonderland', I've engaged in brawls with passers-by who have looked at me funnily, questioning my club and my pride, before stumbling off into the night as my final, drawn-out, emboldened wail of 'Newcastle!' echoes across the town square.

    I agree with that. I think it goes back to the idea that one's direct contact with the club is limited not by choice, but by sitaution. I know this was/is my case... and yet nobody questions my club loyalty.

    As for the drunken chants Ale Always a fun time when you can rile the locals with foreign serenads brought on by the consumption of a few dark pints.
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    Post by L.r.d Sat May 24, 2008 6:28 am

    Luso wrote:
    Rule of thumb - if you don't feel like punching a guy that makes a smart-ass comment about your club in the head, then you have no business calling yourself a fan. Ale

    Guess the concept of banter is not one you're familiar with. Rivalry and banter with other fans is a big part of being a football fan. Think it would be a bit pathetic not to see the funny side of some harmless jokes or smart ass retorts about your club.
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    Post by Luso Tue May 27, 2008 3:15 pm

    L.r.d wrote:
    Luso wrote:
    Rule of thumb - if you don't feel like punching a guy that makes a smart-ass comment about your club in the head, then you have no business calling yourself a fan. Ale

    Guess the concept of banter is not one you're familiar with. Rivalry and banter with other fans is a big part of being a football fan. Think it would be a bit pathetic not to see the funny side of some harmless jokes or smart ass retorts about your club.

    Based on your remark I'd have to say the concept of humour is lost on you.

    Banter between freinds is normal and expected. Smart-ass remarks from people we're not familiure with doesn't have the same effect; it's much more likely to cause problems.

    It's interesting that a Man Utd 'fan' (from London) should find the idea of punching someone in the head an absurd proposition. Considering the fact that Mancs, along with the Liverpool suporters, are among the most trouble-making hooligans in Europe, you'd think it would be a sentiment you're quite familure with. Perhaps you're out of touch with your clubs true supporters?

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      Current date/time is Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:30 pm