São Paulo State League 1st leg semi-final

at 93 minutes Corinthians score the second in the 2-1 home victory against São Paulo, and Cristian gives the finger in the direction of São Paulo fans (he may be punished, but he's already a hero):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GulB34neZq0&feature=related

and this amateur video of the same goal, filmed from the Barra Bravas angle... hear the roar of the fans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkIYnJg0bQw

the winner of the second leg will play against the winner of Santos - Palmeiras (first leg 2-1 for Santos).

What did you think of Vickerys comments about removing the state championships?

I agree 100%. he explains the thing very well.

I may add that the state leagues were the most important national championships until 1971, when the national league was finally established. now they still have some importance, especially because of the regional derbies (the derbies in Brazil are all regional, that is, of big clubs from the same state, which means that Corinthains - Flamengo, though they have the biggest fanbases here, is not a derby, cause they are from different states), but are less important than the national league (4 spots for Libertadores) or the copa do brasi (1 spot for Libertadores). they are still the most traditional leagues here though, the oldest.

Super Madrid wrote:What did you think of Vickerys comments about removing the state championships?

By removing state championships you mean soley having a national league? Would that be good or bad for the fans?

Calidad wrote:By removing state championships you mean soley having a national league? Would that be good or bad for the fans?

the national league and the copa do brasil. vickery's article explains everything pretty well.

After a couple of games without scoring, O Fenômeno is back. Ronaldo created the first goal with an amazing long pass and then scored the second. He seems recovered, though still fat. His run to score the second was amazing. He scored 6 goals in 9 matches (some of them not as a starter).


Corinthians beat São Paulo away 2-0 and now will face Santos in the final.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqHBvzIHMy0

Looks he is doing quite well. Think there is a chance of him coming back for the national team?
I mean with good performances in Brazil I can see him getting popular among the locals. Of course the question is if he is fit enough for Brazil. Wouldn't have to be a starter either unless Amauri or Fabiano doesn't deliver. Perhaps Adriano can make a similar recovery.

Was this game in the copa and has the league started yet? How do you see your chances and is it still Sao Paulo that rules?

Would be an awesome super-sub to have - imagine the thoughts of tired defenders playing against Brazil in the 2010 World Cup when they suddenly see him warming up with 10 mins to go...

@kas and supermadrid

Ronaldo had never been so much in the Brazilian media before. He's playing well and was fit enough to beat São Paulo's defence, which is an excelent defence. Therefore, there are a lot of people here who want him back in the National Team.

Corinthians have by far the biggest fanbase in the biggest economic centre of the country (São Paulo), which explains why he chose to play for us. Ronaldo + Corinthains means news everyday in every paper and TV programme. He wants to come back to the National Team, and he thought that playing for Corinthains would be the easiest way to achieve it.

He said he'll never play in Europe again, cause he wants to live in Brazil from now on; that Corinthains will be his last club; and that in the end of the year he'll think it over and maybe will end his career as a footballer. I think he'll stop playing if, in the end of the year, he sees there's no chance of playing in the WC. If Dunga tells him he'll be in South Africa, he'll certainloy play till the WC, and then retire.

Kas, if he comes back, he will certainly be a starter, not a sub. Fat, drunk and coked, he's better than Luis Fabiano and Amauri put together. And he's been playing till the end of the games.

I don't think he should come back to the National Team now. He has a history of injuries; let's see if his body can bear the load of the Brazilian season, which has the absurd amount of around 80 games (notice that our season starts on February, finishing on December without a break).

He's already surprising the media, cause they thought he would break early and wouldn't play well enough due to his physical problems.

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"Was this game in the copa and has the league started yet? How do you see your chances and is it still Sao Paulo that rules?"

this game was the semi-final of the São Paulo state championship. our league starts after the state championships finish (there are 27 states in Brazil, therefore 27 state championships, São Paulo state being arguably the most difficult to win of the 27, cause there are 6 first division teams in São Paulo state).

of course, the state championship is not as important as the Brazilian league or the Libertadores or even the Copa do Brasil (which gives the winner a spot in the Libertadores, making it more important for us then the euro national cups for the Europeans).

But it has something that makes the difference: rivalry. tough, mad, violent rivalry.

Brazilian rivalries are state based. all our clássicos (derbies) are between clubs of the same state. a loss in a clássico can mine the atmosphere of a team and their fans.

unfortunately, every clássico in São Paulo has violent clashes between barra bravas, with lots of people ending up in hospital and sometimes even dead. the fans hate each other. the managers of the clubs hate each other. it is a big public security problem here. When there is a clássico, the police has to set a special security operation in the city with helicopters and thousands of cops and shock policimen in underground stations, train stations, bus stops and around the stadium.

sad but true. I usually go to the games by underground train, but in clássicos I have to borrow a car to go, cause I'm afraid of being beaten in the way.

all this hatred between fans and rival clubs make the state championship special.

notice Cristian giving the finger to São Paulo fans after scoring the second in the last minute of the first leg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAyBYA82g58

São Paulo fans are exactly in that corner. He may be punished and out of the final because of this.


this great rivalry is the reason why São Paulo sent their B team to play a Libertadores game in Colombia on Wednesday. Can you imagine ManU, for instance, sending a B team to play a CL game because of a county championship game against Man City?

São Paulo is still the team that rules here, and that's why it was so important to kick them out of the competition. They won the last 3 national leagues (the first club to win 3 consecutive leagues ever in Brazil). And that's why Ronaldo's performance in the second leg had such an impact.


Now we'll face Santos in the final. Corinthains is the only ubeaten team in the year and have the best campaign, which means we'll play the second leg of the final at home. However, Santos is in an excelent moment. It will be a hell of a final.

Corinthians clássicos in 2009:

Qualifying Stage:

São Paulo 1 - 1 Corinthians
Palmeiras 1 - 1 Corinthians
Corinthians 1 - 0 Santos

Semi-final

Corinthians 2 - 1 São Paulo
São Paulo 0 - 2 Corinthians


Santos clássicos in 2009

Qualifying Stage:

Palmeiras 3 -1 Santos
Santos 1 - 0 São Paulo
Corinthians 1 - 0 Santos

Semi-final

Santos 2 -1 Palmeiras
Palmeiras 1 - 2 Santos

Ronaldo reached 36km/h (10 metres per second) in his run to score. Of course, this speed was the peak of the run, not the avarage speed, but it's still very fast even for a young player. He's beginning to look like the Ronaldo of 2002.

Then I remember Tim Vickery saying that Brazilian physical specialists working in Brazilian football clubs are ahead of the Europeans since the 70s, remembering that Brazil was the first country to take a team of specialists of that kind to a world cup, this in Mexico 1970. maybe it helps to explain why Ronaldo is in a better physical condition than he ever was in Milan.

What I like about Vickery's articles is that he deconstructs the myth that Brazilian football is talented samba football attack + poor defence. He's already shown that Brazil has one of the best defences in WCs, better than Germany's and Argentina's. And he also stress the fact that Brazilian football managers have always given a lot of importance to the physical condition of the players, investing a lot of money on professionals from the best Brazilian universities.

Brazil in 1994 had an excelent defensive system, a genius to attack (Romário) and an excelent physical condition, maybe the best in that world cup - Parreira, who was our coach in that WC, was responsible for the physical training of the National Team in México 1970.

In 2002, Brazil played with 3 CBs and 2 DMs + three great attacking players: Ronaldinho, Rivaldo and Ronaldo, and also had an excelent physical condition.

how was it possible for São Paulo and Internacional to beat Liverpool and Barcelona, that were for sure much more talented teams? Both São Paulo and Internacional had excelent defensive systems and were phisically better prepared.

mongrel hawk wrote:Ronaldo reached 36km/h (10 metres per second) in his run to score. Of course, this speed was the peak of the run, not the avarage speed, but it's still very fast even for a young player. He's beginning to look like the Ronaldo of 2002.

Then I remember Tim Vickery saying that Brazilian physical specialists working in Brazilian football clubs are ahead of the Europeans since the 70s, remembering that Brazil was the first country to take a team of specialists of that kind to a world cup, this in Mexico 1970. maybe it helps to explain why Ronaldo is in a better physical condition than he ever was in Milan.

What I like about Vickery's articles is that he deconstructs the myth that Brazilian football is talented samba football attack + poor defence. He's already shown that Brazil has one of the best defences in WCs, better than Germany's and Argentina's. And he also stress the fact that Brazilian football managers have always given a lot of importance to the physical condition of the players, investing a lot of money on professionals from the best Brazilian universities.

Brazil in 1994 had an excelent defensive system, a genius to attack (Romário) and an excelent physical condition, maybe the best in that world cup - Parreira, who was our coach in that WC, was responsible for the physical training of the National Team in México 1970.

In 2002, Brazil played with 3 CBs and 2 DMs + three great attacking players: Ronaldinho, Rivaldo and Ronaldo, and also had an excelent physical condition.

how was it possible for São Paulo and Internacional to beat Liverpool and Barcelona, that were for sure much more talented teams? Both São Paulo and Internacional had excelent defensive systems and were phisically better prepared.

Ronaldo has always been great when he got the chance to play 5 or so games to get into match form. Even when he was fat this counted but he rarely got that in Madrid towards the end and so people only saw him every now and then when he came back and looked unsharp. He still seems too fat and hopefully they can convince him that he has to lose weight but somehow I doubt it. I suppose that as long as he can play that well it doesn't really matter since he is still fast.

Also like that about Vickery but regarding the defence thing there is a logical explaination to that. Look at Barca for a present team that attacks alot but still doesn't conceed many goals. They have the ball more and are well organised in their pressure and make it hard for teams to cross their half. Allthough since 94, perhaps earlier, I agree that Brazil has been more focused on the defensive aspects. The focus on defensive midfielders has meant as Luxemburgo has stressed that Brazilians central midfielders are now talentless players who can no longer play in the build up.

"Ronaldo has always been great when he got the chance to play 5 or so games to get into match form."

but the thing is: why didn't he have the chance to play 5 or so consecutive games in Milan? He's alrady played 9 games for Corinthians, 6 as a starter. Also, he's lost around 10kg in Corinthians. I think he's 2 kg or something above 2002


"Look at Barca for a present team that attacks alot but still doesn't conceed many goals. They have the ball more and are well organised in their pressure and make it hard for teams to cross their half."

that may be true. but the focus on physical preperation has always been an ignored mark of Brazilian football.

"The focus on defensive midfielders has meant as Luxemburgo has stressed that Brazilians central midfielders are now talentless players who can no longer play in the build up."

that's also true. but you gotta remember that since 94 Brazil formed a style in which the right backs have the roles of DMs or wingers when attacking (jorginho/branco, jorginho/leonardo, cafu/carlos), thus the need for very defensive DMs who work as destroyers only, covering the right backs' while they go forward (dunga, mauro silva, gilberto silva, etc). This style of play has earned us 2 WC titles and 3 WC finals.

1st leg Santos 1 - 3 Corinthians

Ronaldo scored twice. His first, a nice goal. His second, a work of art.

I've already ordered my ticket for the second leg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q50mzUraRg0

THE PHENOMENON IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?


Brazil are going to win the WC, fucking hell, i wanted messi to win it.

but he is young