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    The Champions League Winners & Losers

    Batman
    Batman


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    The Champions League Winners & Losers Empty The Champions League Winners & Losers

    Post by Batman Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:03 pm

    Winners

    The Premier League
    The incredible statistic raised in the wake of Arsenal and Manchester United's progression wasn't the guarantee of a fifth successive year in which a Premier League side would play in the Champions League final but the reminder that it is two years since one of the Big Four lost a game in the knock-out stage to any club outside of their English elite.

    Just like last year, when Barcelona joined three Premier League sides in the last four, the only English side to have fallen before the semi-finals is the loser in an all-Premier League encounter. With Arsenal out to Liverpool, Liverpool out to Chelsea, and Chelsea finally losing out to Manchester United, it then followed that the English side that prevailed to win the competition was the only English side not to lose to another domestic foe. What odds on a repeat? Theirs is a dominance unprecedented and, from a European perspective, disconcertingly unequal.


    Chelsea
    Goals make for unreliable witnesses. The story being peddled in the aftermath of an extraordinary encounter at Stamford Bridge - so fun to border on farcical - was that Chelsea's comeback was the consequence of a half-time rollicking from an enraged Guus Hiddink. The problem with that particular account is that, before Pepe Reina's 53rd-minute misjudgment, Chelsea had appeared just as clueless and nervy in the opening minutes of the second half as they had in the first. It was the slight touch of Drogba's toe that changed the tie, not the lash of Hiddink's tongue.

    Which makes it all the stranger that Hiddink has been lauded for his half-time fury. What else could have been expected? What difference his anger to that of the Chelsea fans? A more salient matter to consider, surely, is what the Dutchman said before the tie to explain why his side began in such tepid, defensive and complacent fashion. They dug themselves a hole from which they were lucky to escape.

    If the interim Chelsea manager is to be applauded then it is for his swift introduction of Nicolas Anelka and his post-match refusal to defend the wretched Petr Cech. Told that his own manager had bemoaned his lack of confidence, the keeper's first response was to check whether Hiddink "really had said that?" He had.

    That Cech is a shadow of the goalkeeper he was before suffering a fractured skull in October 2006 is not in dispute. His performances have deteriorated to such an extent that he is in jeopardy of losing his place and he would most probably be omitted for Saturday's FA Cup semi-final if only Chelsea still possessed a reliable and recognised alternative.

    A penny, then, for Carlo Cudicini's thoughts. Having sat on the Chelsea bench for four seasons while Cech established a reputation as the world's best keeper, Cudicini departed Stamford Bridge three months ago for first-team football at Tottenham but has made just four appearances and has given way to the rejuvenated Heurelho Gomes since February. Coming soon on F365: The Worst Career Choices In The History of Sport.

    Cech, too, may well be at a crossroads in his own career. His decision-making has become unreliable and he has ceased to provide any sort of comfort to his defence. One step towards remedy may to be remove the skull cap that he has worn since his collision with Stephen Hunt. Its use has always been an unexplained curiosity: If he requires it as protection then he ought not to be playing, and if it does provide valuable protection then every goalkeeper in the land ought to wear a replica. None do. Instead, its most meaningful contribution is to provide a stark visual reminder of the difference between the Petr Cech of then and now.


    Manchester United
    For United, victory in Porto was 2007/08 revisited, with Cristiano Ronaldo delivering the dramatics and Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic providing the security. Ronaldo's fantastic thunderbolt lit up the night but the key to victory in the Stadio do Dragao was the reunion of United's first-choice central defenders. Two myths were thus destroyed on Wednesday: the first that United are a one-man team, because Ronaldo is not a defender and United's defence has been the best in Europe for the past two years; and the second that Ronaldo has ceased to be worth the hassle.

    Where would United be without him? Out of Europe, that's where. The preening, petulant, posturing prattishness was all forgiven and forgotten with a single swipe of his right foot that no other player on the pitch would have considered. "It was fantastic," he proclaimed afterwards. "I think it's the best goal I've ever scored. I can't wait to see it again on DVD."

    You don't have to like him, but it's difficult not to admire his refusal to countenance false modesty.

    As against Roma last April, Ronaldo was deployed as a centre-forward, a position that he continues to claim is not his favourite despite its provision of centre stage. The main reason for the tactical shift was most probably the greater trust Sir Alex has in Wayne Rooney over Ronaldo in a defensive role, but it proved inspired because Ronaldo remains a special talent with a special capacity to turn games. Big games too, and for a player who allegedly only delivers when it doesn't matter he has a strange habit of regularly scoring in matches of significance. Since last March, United have scored 11 goals in 11 knock-out matches in Europe and Ronaldo has claimed five of them.


    Arsenal
    The personification of Arsenal's turnaround this season has to be Alex Song. Reviled and ridiculed earlier in the campaign, the midfielder has grown in stature since the turn of the year to become an integral player at the Emirates. A different type of player to the runaholic Mathieu Flamini, Song's discipline and bite has been a salient factor in Cesc Fabregas' return to form since his own comeback and he will have a vital role to perform in two weeks' time at Old Trafford as a defensive protector. Excellent against Villarreal, the 21-year-old was also, not incidentally, the only available cover for a defence so stretched by a glut of injuries that Arsene Wenger could only name midfielders and forwards in addition to a reserve goalkeeper as substitutes against the Spaniards.

    It is a dangerous game to play and one more casualty would spell calamity. Injuries, as ever, remain the cloud on Arsenal's horizon, although their hopes of progressing to their second Champions League final in four years would be greatly advanced if only Andrei Arshavin was eligible for European competition. The reawakening of the title race has distracted from the Russian's brilliance in his first ten games on English soil but it is not difficult to appreciate how costly his enforced absence in the Champions League could be for the Gunners.

    Whereas Arshavin has been credited with five assists in his last five games in addition to a couple of goals, Samir Nasri's total contribution over the entire season has been just two assists and seven goals. Pathetically lame in Spain two weeks ago, the Frenchman was anonymous in the second leg with Arsenal's right flank providing all the danger and their left nothing but an untracked Villarreal right-back. On Wednesday's evidence, even a 35-year-old Robert Pires would be a superior alternative to a player who continues to provide a convincing impression of a luxury player with no dividend.


    Losers

    Liverpool
    If there's such a thing as the perfect exit from the Champions League then this must have been it. Ousted though they were - and despite what some delusionists seem intent on implying, the reality is that Liverpool didn't actually win the match at Stamford Bridge - Liverpool will have left Stamford Bridge in perky mood, with confidence restored, if not momentum.

    That's the easy bit. The difficult part is gauging whether their title prospects have been hindered or helped by an early European exit. Even Liverpool themselves seem unsure.

    "You never know what the effect will be," Xabi Alonso told The Times. "Logically, we should have more time to rest, but sometimes you prefer to keep playing games. We are not happy because we are out."
    Rewind a week and Rafa Benitez's observation ran contrary: "If we are not in this competition [the Champions League], then he knows we will be a bigger threat in the Premier League."

    No prizes for realising that the aforementioned 'he' occupies the manager's office at Old Trafford or that the backdrop to the help-or-hinder debate is Sir Alex's prediction that "the winner of the Champions League tie between Liverpool and Chelsea will be the biggest threat to us".

    But there are just as many reasons and historical pointers arguing against Sir as there are supporting his viewpoint. Moreover, Ferguson himself made a pertinent counter-argument to his own prediction in the press conference the followed United's win in Portugal. "There were two main reasons for our improvement when compared with the first game," he mused. "We had some important players back in the team [after resting six of Wednesday's starting line-up from Saturday's trip to Sunderland] and we had four days to rest instead of the two we had one week ago. That's very important."

    Spot the importance of that statement? Liverpool will have a week's rest before facing an injury-ravaged Arsenal side playing their third game in six days on Tuesday night, then another four days' recuperation before travelling to Hull on Saturday and a full week between their remaining four games. Manchester United, in contrast, will have to play ten games before May 24 with a midweek match scheduled in each of the next four weeks.

    Pete Gill
    Six
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    Post by Six Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:05 pm

    The only thing that will help our title chances are the teams playing against United.
    Romford Pele
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    Post by Romford Pele Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:07 pm

    Dark Knight wrote:Winners

    The Premier League
    The incredible statistic raised in the wake of Arsenal and Manchester United's progression wasn't the guarantee of a fifth successive year in which a Premier League side would play in the Champions League final but the reminder that it is two years since one of the Big Four lost a game in the knock-out stage to any club outside of their English elite.

    Just like last year, when Barcelona joined three Premier League sides in the last four, the only English side to have fallen before the semi-finals is the loser in an all-Premier League encounter. With Arsenal out to Liverpool, Liverpool out to Chelsea, and Chelsea finally losing out to Manchester United, it then followed that the English side that prevailed to win the competition was the only English side not to lose to another domestic foe. What odds on a repeat? Theirs is a dominance unprecedented and, from a European perspective, disconcertingly unequal.


    Chelsea
    Goals make for unreliable witnesses. The story being peddled in the aftermath of an extraordinary encounter at Stamford Bridge - so fun to border on farcical - was that Chelsea's comeback was the consequence of a half-time rollicking from an enraged Guus Hiddink. The problem with that particular account is that, before Pepe Reina's 53rd-minute misjudgment, Chelsea had appeared just as clueless and nervy in the opening minutes of the second half as they had in the first. It was the slight touch of Drogba's toe that changed the tie, not the lash of Hiddink's tongue.

    Which makes it all the stranger that Hiddink has been lauded for his half-time fury. What else could have been expected? What difference his anger to that of the Chelsea fans? A more salient matter to consider, surely, is what the Dutchman said before the tie to explain why his side began in such tepid, defensive and complacent fashion. They dug themselves a hole from which they were lucky to escape.

    If the interim Chelsea manager is to be applauded then it is for his swift introduction of Nicolas Anelka and his post-match refusal to defend the wretched Petr Cech. Told that his own manager had bemoaned his lack of confidence, the keeper's first response was to check whether Hiddink "really had said that?" He had.

    That Cech is a shadow of the goalkeeper he was before suffering a fractured skull in October 2006 is not in dispute. His performances have deteriorated to such an extent that he is in jeopardy of losing his place and he would most probably be omitted for Saturday's FA Cup semi-final if only Chelsea still possessed a reliable and recognised alternative.

    A penny, then, for Carlo Cudicini's thoughts. Having sat on the Chelsea bench for four seasons while Cech established a reputation as the world's best keeper, Cudicini departed Stamford Bridge three months ago for first-team football at Tottenham but has made just four appearances and has given way to the rejuvenated Heurelho Gomes since February. Coming soon on F365: The Worst Career Choices In The History of Sport.

    Cech, too, may well be at a crossroads in his own career. His decision-making has become unreliable and he has ceased to provide any sort of comfort to his defence. One step towards remedy may to be remove the skull cap that he has worn since his collision with Stephen Hunt. Its use has always been an unexplained curiosity: If he requires it as protection then he ought not to be playing, and if it does provide valuable protection then every goalkeeper in the land ought to wear a replica. None do. Instead, its most meaningful contribution is to provide a stark visual reminder of the difference between the Petr Cech of then and now.


    Manchester United
    For United, victory in Porto was 2007/08 revisited, with Cristiano Ronaldo delivering the dramatics and Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic providing the security. Ronaldo's fantastic thunderbolt lit up the night but the key to victory in the Stadio do Dragao was the reunion of United's first-choice central defenders. Two myths were thus destroyed on Wednesday: the first that United are a one-man team, because Ronaldo is not a defender and United's defence has been the best in Europe for the past two years; and the second that Ronaldo has ceased to be worth the hassle.

    Where would United be without him? Out of Europe, that's where. The preening, petulant, posturing prattishness was all forgiven and forgotten with a single swipe of his right foot that no other player on the pitch would have considered. "It was fantastic," he proclaimed afterwards. "I think it's the best goal I've ever scored. I can't wait to see it again on DVD."

    You don't have to like him, but it's difficult not to admire his refusal to countenance false modesty.

    As against Roma last April, Ronaldo was deployed as a centre-forward, a position that he continues to claim is not his favourite despite its provision of centre stage. The main reason for the tactical shift was most probably the greater trust Sir Alex has in Wayne Rooney over Ronaldo in a defensive role, but it proved inspired because Ronaldo remains a special talent with a special capacity to turn games. Big games too, and for a player who allegedly only delivers when it doesn't matter he has a strange habit of regularly scoring in matches of significance. Since last March, United have scored 11 goals in 11 knock-out matches in Europe and Ronaldo has claimed five of them.


    Arsenal
    The personification of Arsenal's turnaround this season has to be Alex Song. Reviled and ridiculed earlier in the campaign, the midfielder has grown in stature since the turn of the year to become an integral player at the Emirates. A different type of player to the runaholic Mathieu Flamini, Song's discipline and bite has been a salient factor in Cesc Fabregas' return to form since his own comeback and he will have a vital role to perform in two weeks' time at Old Trafford as a defensive protector. Excellent against Villarreal, the 21-year-old was also, not incidentally, the only available cover for a defence so stretched by a glut of injuries that Arsene Wenger could only name midfielders and forwards in addition to a reserve goalkeeper as substitutes against the Spaniards.

    It is a dangerous game to play and one more casualty would spell calamity. Injuries, as ever, remain the cloud on Arsenal's horizon, although their hopes of progressing to their second Champions League final in four years would be greatly advanced if only Andrei Arshavin was eligible for European competition. The reawakening of the title race has distracted from the Russian's brilliance in his first ten games on English soil but it is not difficult to appreciate how costly his enforced absence in the Champions League could be for the Gunners.

    Whereas Arshavin has been credited with five assists in his last five games in addition to a couple of goals, Samir Nasri's total contribution over the entire season has been just two assists and seven goals. Pathetically lame in Spain two weeks ago, the Frenchman was anonymous in the second leg with Arsenal's right flank providing all the danger and their left nothing but an untracked Villarreal right-back. On Wednesday's evidence, even a 35-year-old Robert Pires would be a superior alternative to a player who continues to provide a convincing impression of a luxury player with no dividend.


    Losers

    Liverpool
    If there's such a thing as the perfect exit from the Champions League then this must have been it. Ousted though they were - and despite what some delusionists seem intent on implying, the reality is that Liverpool didn't actually win the match at Stamford Bridge - Liverpool will have left Stamford Bridge in perky mood, with confidence restored, if not momentum.

    That's the easy bit. The difficult part is gauging whether their title prospects have been hindered or helped by an early European exit. Even Liverpool themselves seem unsure.

    "You never know what the effect will be," Xabi Alonso told The Times. "Logically, we should have more time to rest, but sometimes you prefer to keep playing games. We are not happy because we are out."
    Rewind a week and Rafa Benitez's observation ran contrary: "If we are not in this competition [the Champions League], then he knows we will be a bigger threat in the Premier League."

    No prizes for realising that the aforementioned 'he' occupies the manager's office at Old Trafford or that the backdrop to the help-or-hinder debate is Sir Alex's prediction that "the winner of the Champions League tie between Liverpool and Chelsea will be the biggest threat to us".

    But there are just as many reasons and historical pointers arguing against Sir as there are supporting his viewpoint. Moreover, Ferguson himself made a pertinent counter-argument to his own prediction in the press conference the followed United's win in Portugal. "There were two main reasons for our improvement when compared with the first game," he mused. "We had some important players back in the team [after resting six of Wednesday's starting line-up from Saturday's trip to Sunderland] and we had four days to rest instead of the two we had one week ago. That's very important."

    Spot the importance of that statement? Liverpool will have a week's rest before facing an injury-ravaged Arsenal side playing their third game in six days on Tuesday night, then another four days' recuperation before travelling to Hull on Saturday and a full week between their remaining four games. Manchester United, in contrast, will have to play ten games before May 24 with a midweek match scheduled in each of the next four weeks.

    Pete Gill

    lol! Bollocks.
    Cesc Soler
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    Post by Cesc Soler Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:40 pm

    I said last week that he only just recovered from a virus so he should be given some slack for his game at Villarreal. By no means was he spectacular in any way last night but he still contributed well to a fantastic team performance.

    Are there more losers or did Batman cut them out to make Liverpool look worse?
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:50 pm

    Dark Knight wrote:Winners

    The Premier League

    Woo hoo, aren't we lucky.
    Six
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    Post by Six Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:52 pm

    Cesc Soler wrote:I said last week that he only just recovered from a virus so he should be given some slack for his game at Villarreal. By no means was he spectacular in any way last night but he still contributed well to a fantastic team performance.

    Are there more losers or did Batman cut them out to make Liverpool look worse?

    I don't think the article is interested in the foriegn teams.
    avatar
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    Post by L r dd Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:52 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    Dark Knight wrote:Winners

    The Premier League

    Woo hoo, aren't we lucky.

    The extra UEFA place is due to the cl teams since the uefa ones rarely do fuck all ok
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:55 pm

    L-r d wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    Dark Knight wrote:Winners

    The Premier League

    Woo hoo, aren't we lucky.

    The extra UEFA place is due to the cl teams since the uefa ones rarely do fuck all ok

    Oooh, more waffa cup places, woop dee woo. Another place for some no mark shithouse manager like Harry Redknapp to fill and waste.
    avatar
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    Post by L r dd Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:57 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    L-r d wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    Dark Knight wrote:Winners

    The Premier League

    Woo hoo, aren't we lucky.

    The extra UEFA place is due to the cl teams since the uefa ones rarely do fuck all ok

    Oooh, more waffa cup places, woop dee woo. Another place for some no mark shithouse manager like Harry Redknapp to fill and waste.

    If you wasn't so shit you'd be thankful ok
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:01 pm

    L-r d wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    L-r d wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    Dark Knight wrote:Winners

    The Premier League

    Woo hoo, aren't we lucky.

    The extra UEFA place is due to the cl teams since the uefa ones rarely do fuck all ok

    Oooh, more waffa cup places, woop dee woo. Another place for some no mark shithouse manager like Harry Redknapp to fill and waste.

    If you wasn't so shit you'd be thankful ok

    * Weren't

    When addressing a non-cockney use proper English. <Ale>

    I've no reason to be thankful, so we have more waffa cup spots, so what? We have 2 more CL spots than we should and it has ruined the competitiveness of our league. More spots isn't necessarily a good thing.
    Rosicky
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    Post by Rosicky Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:03 pm

    Six wrote:
    Cesc Soler wrote:I said last week that he only just recovered from a virus so he should be given some slack for his game at Villarreal. By no means was he spectacular in any way last night but he still contributed well to a fantastic team performance.

    Are there more losers or did Batman cut them out to make Liverpool look worse?

    I don't think the article is interested in the foriegn teams.

    F365 never include non english teams ok
    Six
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    Post by Six Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:09 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    L-r d wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    L-r d wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    Dark Knight wrote:Winners

    The Premier League

    Woo hoo, aren't we lucky.

    The extra UEFA place is due to the cl teams since the uefa ones rarely do fuck all ok

    Oooh, more waffa cup places, woop dee woo. Another place for some no mark shithouse manager like Harry Redknapp to fill and waste.

    If you wasn't so shit you'd be thankful ok

    * Weren't

    When addressing a non-cockney use proper English. <Ale>

    I've no reason to be thankful, so we have more waffa cup spots, so what? We have 2 more CL spots than we should and it has ruined the competitiveness of our league. More spots isn't necessarily a good thing.

    So Leeds and Newcastle are completely blameless for no longer being competitive?
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:10 pm

    No.
    Tom
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    Post by Tom Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:19 pm

    Yes.
    Luis
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    Post by Luis Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:49 pm

    We were losers because we went out but as it says it was the best possible way to go out - showing we are never dead and buried, giving neutrals a game they'll remember for ever and scoring 4 goals at a ground that you would of thought it impossible a few months ago.

    I don't buy into this advantage Liverpool in the premier league so much. United had 2 games most weeks last season and still won the double so it's not important. Liverpool will have more time to keep Gerrard and Torres fit which is a big advantage sure. It's all well and good for United to be slightly tired and maybe with a few injuries but as Six said it's the teams they face that have to step up to them. Portsmouth are fighting for their lives and go to Old Trafford on wednesday after they have played a no doubting physical, tough match against Everton only 3 days before. You would think that they will be ecstatic by this fact and will be optimistic about their chances but only time will tell.
    Deluded F*ck™
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:56 pm

    That bit about Cudicini did make me chortle though.
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    Post by toon h Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:46 pm

    Rosicky wrote:
    Six wrote:
    Cesc Soler wrote:I said last week that he only just recovered from a virus so he should be given some slack for his game at Villarreal. By no means was he spectacular in any way last night but he still contributed well to a fantastic team performance.

    Are there more losers or did Batman cut them out to make Liverpool look worse?

    I don't think the article is interested in the foriegn teams.

    F365 never include non english teams ok

    so the winners are the ones that went through and the loser is the one that went out. Ground-breaking investigative journalism this.
    Allez les rouges
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    Post by Allez les rouges Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:58 am

    What an extraordinary and unprovoked attack on Nasri. So he isn't as good as the much older Arshavin, what a useless twat then.
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    Post by Parks lives Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:32 pm

    Fair assessment on us at least.

    Manchester United
    For United, victory in Porto was 2007/08 revisited, with Cristiano Ronaldo delivering the dramatics and Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic providing the security. Ronaldo's fantastic thunderbolt lit up the night but the key to victory in the Stadio do Dragao was the reunion of United's first-choice central defenders. Two myths were thus destroyed on Wednesday: the first that United are a one-man team, because Ronaldo is not a defender and United's defence has been the best in Europe for the past two years; and the second that Ronaldo has ceased to be worth the hassle.

    Where would United be without him? Out of Europe, that's where. The preening, petulant, posturing prattishness was all forgiven and forgotten with a single swipe of his right foot that no other player on the pitch would have considered. "It was fantastic," he proclaimed afterwards. "I think it's the best goal I've ever scored. I can't wait to see it again on DVD."

    You don't have to like him, but it's difficult not to admire his refusal to countenance false modesty.

    As against Roma last April, Ronaldo was deployed as a centre-forward, a position that he continues to claim is not his favourite despite its provision of centre stage. The main reason for the tactical shift was most probably the greater trust Sir Alex has in Wayne Rooney over Ronaldo in a defensive role, but it proved inspired because Ronaldo remains a special talent with a special capacity to turn games. Big games too, and for a player who allegedly only delivers when it doesn't matter he has a strange habit of regularly scoring in matches of significance. Since last March, United have scored 11 goals in 11 knock-out matches in Europe and Ronaldo has claimed five of them.


    To Rio, Vidic & Ronaldo. ok

    Rooney & Fergie too.
    Romford Pele
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    Post by Romford Pele Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:33 pm

    Allez les rouges wrote:What an extraordinary and unprovoked attack on Nasri. So he isn't as good as the much older Arshavin, what a useless twat then.

    <Ale>

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