Debate: Should Lippi recall Totti/Nesta??

Debate: Should Lippi request Totti & Nesta to comeback from their retirement? Or should Lippi stick with his current set of players? Or should Lippi try out some youngsters??

Italy are clearly missing something in attack, and something in defence. In attack, Italy are finding it hard to create chances, and miss a matchwinner... In defence, Italy look shaky whenever Cannavaro has a bad game or is out - Chiellini is clearly not ready to lead the defence. What options does Lippi have??

1. Stay as you are:
FOR: The current squad have qualified with a game to spare. Italy have done that only twice before in history, and both times they went on to win the world cup. No one in Italy believes in this squad, the media is aiming all their guns at them. The squad (even tho weak in quality) has played with each other for a while, are close to each other, and this can propell them to glory, just like in 2006.
AGAINST: The lack of quality in creativity and defence is apparent. This squad has enough quality to beat weaker opposition (like their qualifying group), but has little chance to outwit a strong team (like Brasil showed twice this year).

2. Recall the legends - Totti + Nesta:
FOR: Totti is just the kind of player Italy have sorely missed since his retirement. That creative sprak in attack. Ditto Nesta, a natural CB legend who can solve the defense issues immediately. Both Totti and Nesta are in good form, world class quality that Italy lack at the mo. And with the world cup so close, Italy needs a solution which does not take time to fit in - Totti & Nesta don't need adjustment time in the Azzurri, they have been there and done it all.
AGAINST: Is it a step forward and two steps back? Both of them are old & injury prone. It could mean sacrificing the likes of Rossi & Bocchetti, the future of Italy. Can Italy really survive a few more old legs??

3. Try out new players:
FOR: Italy have players who could solve some of the problems in the squad. Cassano and Foggia could solve the creative issues. Bocchetti & Santacroce could make the step up in the defence. If blended in with the squad, these players could be a long term solution for Italy.
AGAINST: Haven't they missed the boat, isn't it too late for experimentation? These youngsters (bar Cassano) haven't played at this level much, they will take some time to adapt. Throwing them into the deep end right away could be detrimental to Italy's chances (and perhaps their international careers).

So what do you reckon Lippi should do??

At least for Nesta, if it means dumping Legrottaglie then I would have thought it would be an easy decision.

And for Totti...the players you mention, Foggia and Cassano, aren't being called anyhow. So if you can have Totti over someone like Camoranesi or Di Natale I think it would still be an improvement.

Jaime wrote:At least for Nesta, if it means dumping Legrottaglie then I would have thought it would be an easy decision.

And for Totti...the players you mention, Foggia and Cassano, aren't being called anyhow. So if you can have Totti over someone like Camoranesi or Di Natale I think it would still be an improvement.

I agree. Totti over Pepe, and Nesta over Legrotaglie would be substantial improvements. I would still take Cassano and Foggia (over Di Natale & Camoranesi) but with option two, the immediate concerns would get resolved. Lippi should think seriously about it, only the best & most effectiive squad should go to South Africa, irrespective of age.

Recall the legends. Adams, Gascoigne and Shearer.

Well obviously I'm in favour of this (I always think it's very sad when top players retire from international form supposedly to prolong their careers) but is it even an option? any chance they'd say yes?

Allez les rouges wrote:Well obviously I'm in favour of this (I always think it's very sad when top players retire from international form supposedly to prolong their careers) but is it even an option? any chance they'd say yes?

Totti seems like he is interested in it, but i'm not sure Lippi would add him at this late stage.

I doubt Nesta would want to return.

Totti would improve italy for sure.
Dont know if i would like that


On the other hand: In a WC i want everyone to field the best strongest teams

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:Well obviously I'm in favour of this (I always think it's very sad when top players retire from international form supposedly to prolong their careers) but is it even an option? any chance they'd say yes?

Totti seems like he is interested in it, but i'm not sure Lippi would add him at this late stage.

I doubt Nesta would want to return.

I am sure if Lippi made a request, they both would reconsider (Totti has already sent signals that he wouldn't refuse). Coz playing a World Cup is very prestigious, and does not impact the "prolonging their career's" bit as they didn't ve to play in the qualifying.

I am not sure if Italy are playing top sides between now and the WC, but I am still not c onvinced that the current squad can compete against a top side. They can beat the minnows, and with consistency, coz they have that much quality - that part is true. But at the world cup, they will come up against top sides, and they need that extra bit of quality to compete.

At the mo in the Italy starting XI, only Buffon has that quality, while Cannavaro, Pirlo, & Grosso can also be world class on their day. Thats it. Chiellini and De Rossi are almost there. The rest are not up to the standards of top team football, and a world cup contender cannot carry so many average players.

So Italy really need to incorporate Totti, Nesta, Cassano, & Foggia, or at least 3 of them, to fight teams like Brasil on an equal footing.

This is the starting XI that I would like to see:

With the following back ups:


So this way, Italy keep the backbone of the side that has been playiong together for the last 2 years, and incorporate 4 players, most of whom will not need much time to adjust (back) into the set up.

I am afraid, the boat has sailed for the likes of Santacroce, Motta, Giovinco, Cigarini, Balotelli, etc - there is no way they can adjust into the side now.

Why should Totti and Nesta walk into the WC squad despite not contributing anything in qualifying? If I was one of the other players missing out, I wouldn't be pleased.

kas wrote:Why should Totti and Nesta walk into the WC squad despite not contributing anything in qualifying? If I was one of the other players missing out, I wouldn't be pleased.

WC squad selection should not be looked as a reward for hard work... it should be about players who give Italy the highest chances of winning!

Totti would definitely be a big positive, given that Lippi doesn't want to try out alternatives in that position (i.e Cassano).

Not so sure about Nesta...probably my favourite defender of this generation but he's now incredibly injury prone and I think he's best left to club football now. Besides, I think Italy have enough depth in that position to cope without him (Bocchetti, Gamberini, Chiellini, etc)

kas wrote:Why should Totti and Nesta walk into the WC squad despite not contributing anything in qualifying? If I was one of the other players missing out, I wouldn't be pleased.

Don't think it'd create a good team morale at all, and leave a dangerous precedent for the future.

Recall both

L r dd wrote:

kas wrote:Why should Totti and Nesta walk into the WC squad despite not contributing anything in qualifying? If I was one of the other players missing out, I wouldn't be pleased.

Don't think it'd create a good team morale at all, and leave a dangerous precedent for the future.

Don't you think the other players would prefer to have Nesta than some mug like Legrottaglie? I would have thought that dumping his a$$ would be great for team morale!

Jaime wrote:

L r dd wrote:

kas wrote:Why should Totti and Nesta walk into the WC squad despite not contributing anything in qualifying? If I was one of the other players missing out, I wouldn't be pleased.

Don't think it'd create a good team morale at all, and leave a dangerous precedent for the future.

Don't you think the other players would prefer to have Nesta than some mug like Legrottaglie? I would have thought that dumping his a$$ would be great for team morale!

Possibly but you know for one instance or an injury to someone and them coming in it can work. but to bring a few back with others missing out, then further down the pecking order im not sure.

bluenine wrote:

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:Well obviously I'm in favour of this (I always think it's very sad when top players retire from international form supposedly to prolong their careers) but is it even an option? any chance they'd say yes?

Totti seems like he is interested in it, but i'm not sure Lippi would add him at this late stage.

I doubt Nesta would want to return.

I am sure if Lippi made a request, they both would reconsider (Totti has already sent signals that he wouldn't refuse). Coz playing a World Cup is very prestigious, and does not impact the "prolonging their career's" bit as they didn't ve to play in the qualifying.

I am not sure if Italy are playing top sides between now and the WC, but I am still not c onvinced that the current squad can compete against a top side. They can beat the minnows, and with consistency, coz they have that much quality - that part is true. But at the world cup, they will come up against top sides, and they need that extra bit of quality to compete.

At the mo in the Italy starting XI, only Buffon has that quality, while Cannavaro, Pirlo, & Grosso can also be world class on their day. Thats it. Chiellini and De Rossi are almost there. The rest are not up to the standards of top team football, and a world cup contender cannot carry so many average players.

So Italy really need to incorporate Totti, Nesta, Cassano, & Foggia, or at least 3 of them, to fight teams like Brasil on an equal footing.

This is the starting XI that I would like to see:

Buffon

Santon - Cannavaro - Nesta - Grosso

De Rossi - Pirlo - Marchisio

Totti

Cassano - Iaquinta

With the following back ups:

Marchetti

Zambrotta - Bocchetti - Chiellini - Criscito

Gattuso - D'Agostino - Palombo

Foggia

Gilardino - Rossi

So this way, Italy keep the backbone of the side that has been playiong together for the last 2 years, and incorporate 4 players, most of whom will not need much time to adjust (back) into the set up.



I am afraid, the boat has sailed for the likes of Santacroce, Motta, Giovinco, Cigarini, Balotelli, etc - there is no way they can adjust into the side now.

It's still very useful for a player like Nesta to have the summer off. Totti is open to it, but Nesta doesn't seem particularly keen on it whenever it is brought up in an interview.

Then there's also the issue of whether Lippi will call them. He likes to rely on the players he used in qualifying.

I'm all for it, but i don't see it happening.

As for the starting 11s, i'm not sure about Totti playing as the 1 in a 4-3-1-2. We tried in the last WC, but it left the midfield outnumbered and the fullbacks too exposed, hence Lippi reverted to a 4-4-1-1. I think Totti should play as a 2nd striker, and considering Cassano won't be called, Totti is the next best option.

IMO the boat has sailed for pretty much everyone who wasn't used in the qualifiers. There might be some new faces if there are any injuries, but apart from that, i don't see Lippi changing anything.

L r dd wrote:

Jaime wrote:

L r dd wrote:

kas wrote:Why should Totti and Nesta walk into the WC squad despite not contributing anything in qualifying? If I was one of the other players missing out, I wouldn't be pleased.

Don't think it'd create a good team morale at all, and leave a dangerous precedent for the future.

Don't you think the other players would prefer to have Nesta than some mug like Legrottaglie? I would have thought that dumping his a$$ would be great for team morale!

Possibly but you know for one instance or an injury to someone and them coming in it can work. but to bring a few back with others missing out, then further down the pecking order im not sure.

I understand your point lrd but I think considering how poor Italy have played they would be more understanding. If it was a case of Italy playing great and all then it could be more trouble in the camp. But I think everybody knows this isn't the best Italy has to offer. Also I would figure that with the respect Nesta/Totti have plus the fact that everybody knows these players have had trouble with injuries and therefore would struggle to last an entire qualifying campaign.

No, Totti hasnt done much since 2000 for Italy. Being a starplayer at gayASs Roma doesnt mean much for me.

And Nesta well...without him they won the worldcup so they can do without him as well.

Besides its just wrong to recall them, like Kas and LRD say.

Well the point here is that bluenine and Super Cassano think Italy will improve by calling these two back. While they are good players on paper, I don't see why Lippi would think they're needed considering he's achieving winning results anyway without them. They may not be impressive performances or good football, but since when does Italy play well *and* win?

I'm not saying the players who played in qualifying deserve to go purely based on "hard work"...but if you have 2 players who quit international football to play for their clubs, you can't just say "well we're winning games and achieving our objectives, but because you guys *might* improve our football, why don't you join us for a nice holiday to South Africa"

And anyway, Nesta may not be able to play every 3 days in a World Cup. If Cannavaro stays away from dope, then the question of Legrottaglie doesn't arise (even though I personally don't rate Cannavaro).

Totti would add creativity and more attacking threat, but if Lippi really wants that in his team, then there are other players (ignoring Cassano since he obviously doesn't like him) that he can use. Or change his formation slightly.

I don't rate bluenine's proposed lineup anyway - Totti and Cassano are both '10's, while Iaquinta is hardly a prolific finishing striker that can play alone up front...he's someone who will run into channels out wide, and get involved in buildup. You would need a Gilardino up front IMO.

Also, I'd like to make a point about Camoranesi, having finally watched him quite a few times this season for Juventus - he's basically an Italian Dirk Kuyt - works hard for the team, does his job tactically, shows a few good touches but is frustrating at times from the fan's perspective. But a very useful player to have from the coach's perspective....must be something about him that he gets picked as a starter by multiple Juve and Italy coaches.

Probably the reason he gets picked on so much is his nationality issue.

I don't think it's fair to call players who haven't contributed to the qualifying phase but players like Nesta, Totti and Cassano would improve the current team immensely.

Nesta is easily better than any CB Italy have (including Cannavaro) and players like Cassano and Totti can impact games without a doubt.

In any case Nesta+Totti retired but Cassano really deserves to be in the World Cup, it's a big injustice and pure madness from Lippi.

Kas,

Italy are becoming the Fiorentina of intl football at the mo. They have no problems in "achieving results" against weaker nations, but almost always lose to top sides. That is so opposite of what Italy traditionally are. Infact in historic H2H among the "big 4", Italy come off very well. Traditionally Italy may not pull off consistent wins against weaker sides (due to not gelling together, complacency, conservativeness, etc), but against a top side in a game that matters, they woudl have the quality to compete. The current side is opposite of that... The reason for this difference between the "traditional" Italy and the "current" Italy is the quality/skill of squad. There is something clearly missing, and no amount of wins against Cyprus or even Bulgaria can hide that fact... I have been watching Italy for 25 years, and IMO this is the worst Azzurri I have ever seen in terms of quality in the squad.

Players like Cassano, Nesta, Foggia, & Totti can add that quality that Italy are missing at the mo. Yeah, I would ve prefered it if Italy had given chances to some talented youngsters and developed them over the last 4 years, instead of looking at Totti/Nesta... but that boat has sailed now, this is no time to experiment with youth. Nesta, Totti & even Cassano are proven internationals, and offer a ready solution to this problem.

As for my line-up, I hear ya... but I meant Iaquinta as a holding striker, who could free up and support the goal runs of Cassano and Totti... Totti and Cassano can score a lot of goals, definately much more than the likes of Pepe... the other option would be to go back to a 442, and play someone like Gila upfront with support from Cassano/Totti.

As for Camoranesi, yeah he does get more than his share of criticism. Another reason for that is the position the coaches use him... as the link between the deep midfield and attack. Camoranesi does not have the skills to play this role on his own. Someone like Foggia can do a much better job on the wings, even with lessor workrate. I don't mind Camoranesi in the team as long as there is someone else (much more gifted) providing the creative spark behind the strikers or from the wing.

Good point!

Fey wrote:No, Totti hasnt done much since 2000 for Italy. Being a starplayer at gayASs Roma doesnt mean much for me.

And Nesta well...without him they won the worldcup so they can do without him as well.

Besides its just wrong to recall them, like Kas and LRD say.

Totti and Nesta retired from the Nazionale at their own accord. It would be unfair to the players who they will replace in case they were to make a come-back. These players have helped Italy qualify and it would be demoralizing if they are to lose out their places to some super-stars who are having second thoughts about their retirement.

Tarun wrote:Totti and Nesta retired from the Nazionale at their own accord. It would be unfair to the players who they will replace in case they were to make a come-back. These players have helped Italy qualify and it would be demoralizing if they are to lose out their places to some super-stars who are having second thoughts about their retirement.

I doubt Nesta has any intention of coming back.... but if Lippi publically asks him, maybe he will reconsider. You gotta respect him, he has been very categorical when he retired.

Totti, I am sure he planned this all along.... he is now encouraging Lippi to ask him... its sad, and if Lippi had successfully integrated someone like Cassano in the squad, i would ve agreed with you. But at the mo, Azzurri are crying out for someone like Totti/Cassano. If Lippi has no intention of taking Cassano, then he should recall Totti. The azzurri will be better off with him.

Carlo's probably read Lippi's mind correctly... tho I am not so sure about Amauri anymore, perhaps his citizenship is coming too late for him...

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2009/10/15/1562675/world-cup-special-revealed-italys-23-players-for-the-2010

Very thoughtfully done predictions IMO.
Especially the mention of Totti and Amauri as sure shots for the 23 man squad. Also the mention of Del Piero, who I think can be a perfect answer for the creative deficiencies...or in case Totti does not make it. What I also find amusing is the author's verdict that Cassano will not make it. It's sad but it is increasingly becoming certain that Lippi will not take him

bluenine wrote:Carlo's probably read Lippi's mind correctly... tho I am not so sure about Amauri anymore, perhaps his citizenship is coming too late for him...

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2009/10/15/1562675/world-cup-special-revealed-italys-23-players-for-the-2010

Totti considers Italy return
Monday 30 November, 2009
Francesco Totti is considering a sensational return to the Italian national team after the team's veterans pleaded him to go back.

The Roma star said he will wait until April 2010 and then decide in accordance with Marcello Lippi whether he is going to join the Azzurri mission to South Africa.

“Everybody is talking about this but in the end Lippi and I will make the decision,” revealed Totti.

“I like the fact that Lippi talks well about me, we always had a great relationship on and off the pitch.

“The veterans asked me to return. March or April will be the decisive month to see how I feel.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Considering Cassano won't get called up, i'll be happy if Totti returns.

Sensational

Shocking

Totti couldn't be bothered with qualifying this time. Just stroll back when the tournament happens

What can you do when you're Italy's second best attacker and the best one wont get selected by Lippi? Without Cassano/Totti Italy wont come close at the World Cup, with the guy that has 19 goals in 14 games, they might have a shot, whether he helped them qualify or not.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if this was all pre-concieved and that his non-participation was a club (importance) + country (making the best deal) + player (age) agreement, and that the idea was he would always be selected for the finals.