Underrated Managers

We were discussing the work of Miguel Angel Lotina (Deportivo) and Gregorio Manzano (Mallorca) earlier and have been mentioning it throughout the season. Both of these managers have absolutely zero budget and seem to be forced into selling their best players every year.

Deportivo finished 9th in 07-08, 7th in 08-09, and are 4th so far this season (with no player scoring more than two goals! Super Solari, I checked and you were right about that).

In three seasons with Mallorca, Manzano has gotten them to finish 12th, 9th, and 7th despite losing players like Dani Guiza, Juan Arango, Fernando Navarro, Jose Manuel Jurado, etc.

They both know how to squeeze the absolute last bit of football out of their players and I've really come to admire both.

Anyone else want to chip in with some other very good managers that don't get talked about too often?

Sven-Goran Eriksson before he took over En-ger-land.

Well there you have Lotina's secret Jaime. Not exactly hard to motivate players when every player, including those on the bench, have a real chance of becoming the topscorer.

What makes these two managers really special is that apart from low budgets and having mostly average players they have also despelled the myth that institutional crisis will lead to sporting crisis.

Cesare Prandelli.

Marco Giampaolo. Francesco Guidolin.

Steve McClaren.

Rather then just mention managers that you think are underrated one could perhaps make a case why they are underrated?

Just a thought

Oh.

Well..in retrospect he did a very good job here. He said from the beginning he had a 5 year plan.

He said he wanted to rid the club of the dead wood players..get big earners off the wage bill if they werent good enough. He did that pretty well. He said he wanted to make us a solid hard to beat team..he did that with us going unbeaten at home for most of one season with Southgate and Ugo at the centre of defence..

Said he wanted to make us a comfortable premiership side..and he did pretty much get us to be a midtable team..and eventually a top 10 team..highest finish being 7th which is our highest ever finish in the premiership.

Won us our first ever trophy..got us into Europe twice. Got us to a European final.

Down sides..there was some very boring football at times..but we were still top flight.

As soon as he went, things really did go down hill. Clearly, looking at where we are now.

Then, England job..hmm. This turned him into a man who looked like a clueless mong, who was more worried about his teeth and getting wet during games than he was with good tactics.


Now he's doing a great job with Twente and proving himself againt to be a good club manager.

The England job rightly fucked his reputation, but prior to that he was good for us, and now he's doing well again but alot of people still talk about him like a useless twat. So yeah..underrated.

daum
rehagel
magath

Managers lazily get referred to as tacticians if they do well but being successful nowadays is about having a big tranfer budget, big wage bill and a manager who the players will play for because they like/respect/fear him.

Mourinho is a motivator but gets called a tactician - Robert Huth up front anyone


So I like to see managers who can change a game with subs or a change of shape rather than subs for subs sake therefore I've chosen as follows.

I like what I've seen of Valery Gazzaev (UEFA Cup and Russian Premier League winner with CSKA now at Dynamo Kiev).

CSKA played beautiful football under him.

IMO Dynamo Kiev were by far the worst group of players in a very tough CL group and easily the least athletic team too but he got a 2-2 away to Inter and ran them so close in Kiev, they weren't disgraced v Barca and he changed the game brilliantly v Rubin by bringing on Ghioane and changing to a back 3 so he could get an extra man in midifeld.

They were 1-0 down but once he mad the change they went from dominated to dominating a turned it to 3-1 in the last 20 mins.


Henk Ten Cate seems too old school personality to be a success but is another one who looks a great tactician based on Panathinaikos' big games in last season's CL and he smashed PSV 5-1 away for Ajax didn't he - hope he gets another job soon.

Black Magic wrote:Cesare Prandelli.

Well, I don't know maybe he is underrated, but I think a lot of people seem to recognise the good work he does.

Pirlo wrote:Marco Giampaolo. Francesco Guidolin.

Don't know either of these. Can you elaborate Pirlo?

Without doing the research im going to go out on a limb and say that Francesco Guidolin is probably the most fired coach of Palermo's history with a record breaking 4 sackings.

A noteworthy season was when Palermo were surprising everyone by challenging Inter in 06/07 til winter and then got fired because he couldn't keep that streak going. Doing a great job with Parma at the momemt after having promoted them and now they lie on 8th place with just 5 points to CL places.

Zamparini

Marco Giampaolo is rather young (42) and has a tiny pedigree, just coached minnows Ascoli, Cagliari and Siena in Serie A - but he's already shown quality. His teams were quite poor but he managed to make them play pretty good football and keep them all in top flight.
He's already been sacked twice, in his second years at Cagliari and Siena, but the former is because Cellino is a small scale Zamparini, and the latter is because this year Siena squad is frankly too poor.


Guidolin is a veteran, he's got his first taste of fame when coaching minnows Vicenza fifteen years ago, he kept them in Serie A top ten for 4 seasons (he even enjoyed some good weeks at first place once), playing a fast and stubborn game. He won a Coppa Italia and reached a Cup Winners Cup semis losing out to Chelsea.
That was the time when Zaccheroni impressed with Udinese and Spalletti with Empoli, they were considered somewhat the new wave of italian coaches, but unlike them he never ended up getting a big club job. Anyway he managed Udinese, Bologna, Palermo, and even Monaco in France with overall decent results.

He's deftly not the most charismatic coach around, he's a shy man with somewhat priest-like manners - here in Florence they call him Tremolin because his voice always trembles when speaking to the press =D
Anyway he knows his business and he's a very pragmatic and versatile coach, he's been playing almost any system in his career.

Anne Frank wrote:Henk Ten Cate seems too old school personality to be a success but is another one who looks a great tactician based on Panathinaikos' big games in last season's CL and he smashed PSV 5-1 away for Ajax didn't he - hope he gets another job soon.

Billy Davies possibly.

Got Derby promoted to the EPL, and was then in my opinion, wrongfully sacked by them having made a poor start in the EPL. They made a poor start because they were shite! Now he's at Nottingham Forest adn they're 2nd in the Championship unbeaten in 17.

David Jones is another one.

His reputation has been tinged by the child molestation allegations (unfounded of course) He did a very good job at Stockport, gett themmto the Carling Cup Semi Final and prmoted to the championship, then went to Southampton and did very well there too. Doing a good job at Cardiff now too. IMO if it wasn't for the earlier mentioned allegations he'd be a mid-table EPL manager now.

I think all negative managers whose main tactics is to stiffle the opposition are generally seen as great tacticians eg Benitez, Mourinho, Hiddink etc They are all overrated IMO.

It's far easier to stop someone playing than trying to make the play yourself whilst neutralising your opponents main strengths at the same time. It's the same for footballers; it'easier to look a great defender in a team that sits deep, plays very compact and disciplined than in team like Barca or Arsenal that plays an open game, with the lines sometimes stretched. Your ability to read the game as a defender can be more tested in the sort of situations.

The two best are Bruckner and Van Gaal IMO.

The Professor wrote:I think all negative managers whose main tactics is to stiffle the opposition are generally seen as great tacticians eg Benitez, Mourinho, Hiddink etc They are all overrated IMO.

It's far easier to stop someone playing than trying to make the play yourself whilst neutralising your opponents main strengths at the same time. It's the same for footballers; it'easier to look a great defender in a team that sits deep, plays very compact and disciplined than in team like Barca or Arsenal that plays an open game, with the lines sometimes stretched. Your ability to read the game as a defender can be more tested in the sort of situations.

The two best are Bruckner and Van Gaal IMO.

Yeah, I love Lotina. He doesn't exactly have the most funds nor does he have the most talented group of players, but thanks to him the players tend to walk on the pitch with the right mentality or come back from half-time with the right mentality to really beat the odds. He has apparently been working with a psychologist and perfecting his own craft to make a real difference for the side. He's awesome def one of the reasons Deportivo have been pushing the Champions League this season. I always liked Deportivo since I can remember, Mauro Silva and Fran being my favorites.

Ron Jans. Although there could be some case for the fact that this man is a little insane, but I think he has done an amazing job over the years. I remember going to see Groningen play when I was a kid, and always feeling terrible for them with their lack of funds, and capabilties being so limited. But he has changed this club so much, managed to bring in players and change tactics to improve this side. Underrated managers are those that can manage to stick around for a long time, and gain the respect of fans and general observers alike and that is this man.

Over the years, I have also thought Thomas Schaaf, Felix Magath, Gasperini and the likes of Redknapp/Moyes were quite underrated. They might not be the managers that everyone talks about every week, but they have all done so well over the years and should really be recognized more for their respective contributions to the game.

OrangeSky wrote:
Ron Jans. Although there could be some case for the fact that this man is a little insane

Insane ?!

He's one of the sanest and most normal football managers...

He's one of the best people managers and motivators out there (also one of the few that understands that a management *team* is stronger than a sole manager), but he's seriously lacking in the tactics and making changes for the good during a match -department.

I'd say that he would be awesome as a co-manager, like Ten Cate did for Rijkaard.

As head manager I'm very much afraid he won't ever do better than he did at FC Groningen....I hope I'm wrong though, wish him all the best : he's deserved it

Axeslammer wrote:

OrangeSky wrote:
Ron Jans. Although there could be some case for the fact that this man is a little insane

Insane ?!

He's one of the sanest and most normal football managers...

He's one of the best people managers and motivators out there (also one of the few that understands that a management *team* is stronger than a sole manager), but he's seriously lacking in the tactics and making changes for the good during a match -department.

I'd say that he would be awesome as a co-manager, like Ten Cate did for Rijkaard.

As head manager I'm very much afraid he won't ever do better than he did at FC Groningen....I hope I'm wrong though, wish him all the best : he's deserved it

I was being sarcastic with the insane, but def a hilarious personality. He is always overreacting and getting a little into things.

Where do you think he will end up? I have heard some crazy rumors when the news was first announced, but personally I think he will head to SCH. He likes living in the region, and I don't think there are any bigger clubs to consider in this scenario. I just hate SCH and their fans so much, and it would make me so happy if this happened.

OrangeSky wrote:personally I think he will head to SCH. He likes living in the region, and I don't think there are any bigger clubs to consider in this scenario. I just hate SCH and their fans so much, and it would make me so happy if this happened.

Heerenveen have the perfect Verbeek replacement in Jan de Jonge, they would be insane to let him go.

Can't see Ron going over to the enemy, he knows that if he goes to Heerenveen he'll never ever be welcome anywhere in Groningen again...

Axeslammer wrote:

OrangeSky wrote:personally I think he will head to SCH. He likes living in the region, and I don't think there are any bigger clubs to consider in this scenario. I just hate SCH and their fans so much, and it would make me so happy if this happened.

Heerenveen have the perfect Verbeek replacement in Jan de Jonge, they would be insane to let him go.

Can't see Ron going over to the enemy, he knows that if he goes to Heerenveen he'll never ever be welcome anywhere in Groningen again...

The enemy is a bit much. They wouldn't even bother with your lot if Cambuur were around more, so it always felt a little fake to me.

He will go wherever the opportunity presents itself, he won't care about hurting your feelings and he will always be welcomed by the FCG staff IMO. Anyway I always thought he was better than people give him credit, and underrated in every sense of the word.

OrangeSky wrote:
The enemy is a bit much. They wouldn't even bother with your lot if Cambuur were around more, so it always felt a little fake to me.

You have no idea what you're talking about

You obviously never have heard a full stadium sing Het Grunnings Laid and that gobbledygook thingy the Frysians call their anthem before a Northern Derby.

Axeslammer wrote:

OrangeSky wrote:
The enemy is a bit much. They wouldn't even bother with your lot if Cambuur were around more, so it always felt a little fake to me.

You have no idea what you're talking about

You obviously never have heard a full stadium sing Het Grunnings Laid and that gobbledygook thingy the Frysians call their anthem before a Northern Derby.

I'm grew up in Leeuwarden and Drachten for a little bit as well. So I'm not some random Southern talking about things that I have no idea about.

This is the impression SCH fans have left on me, that they hate you guys but at the end of the day-that they hate the teams in Fryslan more and would care more about those match ups if the opportunity presented itself.

OrangeSky wrote:
This is the impression SCH fans have left on me, that they hate you guys but at the end of the day-that they hate the teams in Fryslan more and would care more about those match ups if the opportunity presented itself.

I don't know much about the Frysian side of things...and don't care much for it either : it's very clear in Groningen that it's *not* done.

Jans can go anywhere but there, I expect that it's going to be a low ranked German team.

abundance wrote:Marco Giampaolo is rather young (42) and has a tiny pedigree, just coached minnows Ascoli, Cagliari and Siena in Serie A - but he's already shown quality. His teams were quite poor but he managed to make them play pretty good football and keep them all in top flight.
He's already been sacked twice, in his second years at Cagliari and Siena, but the former is because Cellino is a small scale Zamparini, and the latter is because this year Siena squad is frankly too poor.


Guidolin is a veteran, he's got his first taste of fame when coaching minnows Vicenza fifteen years ago, he kept them in Serie A top ten for 4 seasons (he even enjoyed some good weeks at first place once), playing a fast and stubborn game. He won a Coppa Italia and reached a Cup Winners Cup semis losing out to Chelsea.
That was the time when Zaccheroni impressed with Udinese and Spalletti with Empoli, they were considered somewhat the new wave of italian coaches, but unlike them he never ended up getting a big club job. Anyway he managed Udinese, Bologna, Palermo, and even Monaco in France with overall decent results.

He's deftly not the most charismatic coach around, he's a shy man with somewhat priest-like manners - here in Florence they call him Tremolin because his voice always trembles when speaking to the press =D
Anyway he knows his business and he's a very pragmatic and versatile coach, he's been playing almost any system in his career.

Absolutely right,

What most impressed me with Guidolin is how he prolonged Corini and used him to get Palermo to play some really intricate good plays but also didn't expose him even though they played with a lot of width.

Giampaolo is a really nice guy as well, he's an outstanding tactician, you look at Siena's performances against the top 5 sides in his years in charge, they laways put in performances and his defensive organisation is brilliant, he's lose games to individual errors that can be out of his control, but he's very very intelligent and did an incredible work with a really rubbish squad.

Zdenek Zeman