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    Comparing Individuals

    Cheb Hamouda
    Cheb Hamouda


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    Post by Cheb Hamouda Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:03 pm

    I read somewhere that they miss threads where they compare players, and I have many great comparisons in my mind and I look forward to reading what others think regarding who is the better individual player.



    1- Pavel Nedved vs Clarence Seedorf:

    Try to ignore the last few matches you have seen of Seedorf and remember the earlier seasons he had at Milan when he played as LCM in the diamond formation or as 2nd AM in the Xmass tree formation in 2007, he moved around smartly and linked the lines and had a great understand with Kaka that was lethal, he also had an amazingly poweful shot and unlike today he had a bigger role defensively. His nemesis during those years was Nedved who was an all round midfielder capable of playing in many roles, the czech was electric on the field, I dont think I have ever seen anyone cover so much of the field during a match and he scored and assisted. For me both are equally good the difference is that Nedved is more mobile but Seedorf is your big game player and has 4 CL under his name.


    2- Jaap Stam vs Lilian Thuram:

    Another comparison between Juve and Milan during the same era (eventhough you can also track back to Stams career at Lazio and Man Utd and Thuram at Parma). Both players are the tough and physical type of defender, both are strong in the air, quick on the ground and very intelligent players and leaders for their teamates, and both have been very effective when used as right backs. so who is the better player out of the two? I cannot make up my mind.


    3- Andrea Pirlo vs Xabi Hernandez

    Very often these two are given the nickname El Maestro for their ability to set the tempo of the match with their quick decision making and incredible pass accuracy rates. They are incredibly important to their club and national sides because of these assets but they differ from each other in my opinion in the sense that Xavi plays a quicker tempo and usually plays short passes (naturally because of the Spanish style of play) while Pirlo is extremely precise in delivering long balls from deep in his area. I think this comparison is the one most open for debate because these two differ in their style but their role is very much the same, for me Pirlo is better (he is the best player for me) when it comes to his natural ability but I think that Xavi is more versatile tactically because in order to see the best out of Pirlo you must have teamates that compliment his game more so than Xavi (Pirlo needs a Gattuso like ball winner, and an Inzaghi like Poacher).




    so we can use this thread to discuss these comparisons and every now and then I can list a new set of players to compare.
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    Post by Guest Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:30 pm

    I'd giving it to Seedorf and Xavi as i think they are more complete midfielder and players in general, than the two they are being compared with.

    Xavi is just boss and the best midfielder of his generation bar none, one of the best ever, the man is the embodiment of consistency, it doesn't matter if its the CL final, The classico or a game in the dead of winner against the worst team in the league, he is doing work, he is the midfield personified.

    Seedorf is a player that is hugely underrated, he has everything a midfielder needs to have and his movement around the pitch is so intelligent, a pity he didn't do better at international level.

    Thrum Vs stam, i can't really comment on.
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    Post by A & K Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:21 am

    Thuram and Stam didn't play at the same position, Stam was CD and Thuram Right back. Both great defenders.


    Stam
    Club
    [edit] PSV Eindhoven

    * KNVB Cup: 1995–96
    * Johan Cruijff-schaal: 1996, 1997, 1998
    * Eredivisie: 1996–97

    [edit] Manchester United

    * Premier League: 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01
    * FA Cup: 1998–99
    * UEFA Champions League: 1998–99
    * Intercontinental Cup: 1999

    [edit] Lazio

    * Coppa Italia: 2003–04

    [edit] Milan

    * Supercoppa Italiana: 2004

    [edit] Ajax

    * Johan Cruijff-schaal: 2006, 2007
    * KNVB Cup: 2006–07

    [edit] Individual

    * Dutch Footballer of the Year: 1997
    * Dutch Golden Shoe: 1997
    * UEFA Champions League Best Defender: 1998–99, 1999–2000
    * PFA Team of the Year: 1999, 2000, 2001
    * Overseas Team of the Decade - Premier League 10 Seasons Awards (1992/3 - 2001/2)

    Thuram

    AS Monaco FC

    * Coupe de France: 1991

    Parma F.C.

    * Coppa Italia: 1999
    * Supercoppa Italiana: 1999
    * UEFA Cup: 1999

    Juventus F.C.

    * Serie A: 2001-02 2002-03
    * Supercoppa Italiana: 2002, 2003

    FC Barcelona

    * Spanish Super Cup: 2006

    [edit] International Playing Honours

    French national team

    * FIFA World Cup: 1998, runner-up 2006
    * UEFA European Football Championship: 2000
    * FIFA Confederations Cup: 2003

    [edit] Individual Playing Honours

    * Guerin d'Oro: 1997
    * FIFA World Cup Bronze Ball: 1998
    * FIFA World Cup All-Star-Team: 1998, 2006
    * Légion d'honneur: 1998
    * UEFA Euro All-Star-Team: 2000
    * FIFA 100: 2004
    * FIFPro World XI: 2006

    Both won lots of trophies: Stam won the champions league with Man utd and Thuram won the euro and world cup with France.
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    Post by A & K Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:30 am

    For once Goal has something useful, when you look at a player's profile you have criterion:
    Such as for:

    Defenders:

    Mistake factor

    Club Loyalty

    Discipline

    Durability

    Heading

    Passing

    Positioning

    Shooting

    Speed

    Strength

    Tackling

    Midfielders

    Club Loyalty

    Creativity

    Discipline

    Diving

    Dribbling/Ball Control

    Durability

    Passing

    Shooting

    Speed

    Tackling

    Vision


    Forwards


    Club Loyalty

    Creativity

    Diving

    Dribbling/Ball Control

    Durability

    Fear Factor

    Heading

    Killer Instinct

    Shooting

    Speed

    Work Rate

    This can be helpful for players comparisons, although who really gives a damn about loyalty nowadays.
    Cheb Hamouda
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    Post by Cheb Hamouda Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:58 am

    How can you say Stam and Thuram are different players, I remember very well that Thuram played as CB particuarly for Juve and for France at WC2006, Stam also played at RB many times for Lazio then Milan. They are very comparable in that sense.
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    Post by A & K Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:46 am

    Yeah you right, he played CB and RB... forgot that.

    Stam, Thuram, Dessailly, Which one was the best?
    Cheb Hamouda
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    Post by Cheb Hamouda Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:00 pm

    I think Thuram might be my favorite because of his calm figure, but when it comes to ability I think he is equal to Stam. Desailly was very intelligent at reading the game but he is different from the others imo because he was a central player and used his body to close down space a bit like Vieira who has long legs that stop attacks.
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    Post by bluenine Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:03 pm

    Cheb Hamouda wrote:I think Thuram might be my favorite because of his calm figure, but when it comes to ability I think he is equal to Stam. Desailly was very intelligent at reading the game but he is different from the others imo because he was a central player and used his body to close down space a bit like Vieira who has long legs that stop attacks.

    I can see where Alive is coming from... as a RB, Thuram was one of the best in the world, right up there with Cafu & Zanetti (Late 90s were like the golden age of RB's). His best days were at Parma & WC98, that was his peak. Later in his career he clearly prefered to play CB (mostly because he was getting a bit slow for RB, and it was taking its toll on him) and he was quite competent at that role as well.

    Stam was one of the best CB's in the late 90s. His peak was at Man Utd & Lazio, tho he played well till the very end of his career. He rarely ever played as fullback tho, hardly offered anything from the wings, so there is no comparison with Thuram there.

    As a CB, Stam was better of the two. As a fullback, there is no comparison.
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    Post by Super Progress Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:36 pm

    Cheb Hamouda wrote:I read somewhere that they miss threads where they compare players, and I have many great comparisons in my mind and I look forward to reading what others think regarding who is the better individual player.



    1- Pavel Nedved vs Clarence Seedorf:

    Try to ignore the last few matches you have seen of Seedorf and remember the earlier seasons he had at Milan when he played as LCM in the diamond formation or as 2nd AM in the Xmass tree formation in 2007, he moved around smartly and linked the lines and had a great understand with Kaka that was lethal, he also had an amazingly poweful shot and unlike today he had a bigger role defensively. His nemesis during those years was Nedved who was an all round midfielder capable of playing in many roles, the czech was electric on the field, I dont think I have ever seen anyone cover so much of the field during a match and he scored and assisted. For me both are equally good the difference is that Nedved is more mobile but Seedorf is your big game player and has 4 CL under his name.


    2- Jaap Stam vs Lilian Thuram:

    Another comparison between Juve and Milan during the same era (eventhough you can also track back to Stams career at Lazio and Man Utd and Thuram at Parma). Both players are the tough and physical type of defender, both are strong in the air, quick on the ground and very intelligent players and leaders for their teamates, and both have been very effective when used as right backs. so who is the better player out of the two? I cannot make up my mind.


    3- Andrea Pirlo vs Xabi Hernandez

    Very often these two are given the nickname El Maestro for their ability to set the tempo of the match with their quick decision making and incredible pass accuracy rates. They are incredibly important to their club and national sides because of these assets but they differ from each other in my opinion in the sense that Xavi plays a quicker tempo and usually plays short passes (naturally because of the Spanish style of play) while Pirlo is extremely precise in delivering long balls from deep in his area. I think this comparison is the one most open for debate because these two differ in their style but their role is very much the same, for me Pirlo is better (he is the best player for me) when it comes to his natural ability but I think that Xavi is more versatile tactically because in order to see the best out of Pirlo you must have teamates that compliment his game more so than Xavi (Pirlo needs a Gattuso like ball winner, and an Inzaghi like Poacher).




    so we can use this thread to discuss these comparisons and every now and then I can list a new set of players to compare.

    Pavel Nedved vs Clarence Seedorf
    A very hard choice this one. Fantastic players who both combined great attacking ability without giving anything away defensively which is rather rare trait. I can't decide this one allthough Seedorf was the more succesful of the two but can't fault Nedved for any lack of trophies.

    Jaap Stam vs Lilian Thuram
    Thuram alongside Cannavaro was a great partnership for two years but Stam as Cb was better.

    Andrea Pirlo vs Xabi Hernandez
    This is a bit difficult because they have peaked at different times. The Pirlo of 2002-2007 was great and Xavi in the following period has been great as well. They aren't exactly the same type as you said. I enjoyed watching Pirlo more because his passing was so (relatively)elegant. As somebody who just wants to enjoy football I would choose Pirlo but if I was a player or manager or fan of a team I would choose Xavi in my team.
    Cheb Hamouda
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    Post by Cheb Hamouda Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:29 am

    New one:


    Alan Shearer vs Gabriel Omar Batistuta


    my two favorites from each country


    and

    Oliver Bierhoff vs Patrick Kluivert

    heading masters
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    Post by A & K Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:32 am

    I don't remember Kluivert being that good with headers. Bierhoff was a master at that.

    Batistuta vs Trezeguet vs Inzaghi
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    Post by abundance Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:35 am

    bluenine wrote:I can see where Alive is coming from... as a RB, Thuram was one of the best in the world, right up there with Cafu & Zanetti (Late 90s were like the golden age of RB's). His best days were at Parma & WC98, that was his peak. Later in his career he clearly prefered to play CB (mostly because he was getting a bit slow for RB, and it was taking its toll on him) and he was quite competent at that role as well.
    He was RB with France, but for what I remember he played central defender, albeit in a 3 men defence, in his best days at Parma.
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    Post by Super Progress Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:29 am

    Alive and Kicking wrote:I don't remember Kluivert being that good with headers. Bierhoff was a master at that.

    Batistuta vs Trezeguet vs Inzaghi
    scratch
    As far as I remember he was pretty good with his head.



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    Post by forza_rossi Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:34 am

    Alive and Kicking wrote:I don't remember Kluivert being that good with headers. Bierhoff was a master at that.

    Batistuta vs Trezeguet vs Inzaghi
    Is that really a comparison? Because from what i've seen of Batistuta, he was a lot more mobile than the other two. Frankly I dont think anyone can ever compare Inzaghi's poacher-ness to any striker's.
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    Post by 110% Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:54 am

    Seedorf: underrated by too many. A great attacking midfielder forced to play more defensively because people think he should be like essien, makelele etc because he's the same colour. Suffered greatly from Pirlo's lack of ability in central midfield.

    Stam: agree with what others have said. He was the slightly better central midfielder, Thuram was the far better right back.

    Xavi: great all-round player, difficult to fault his game. I can't say the same for Pirlo, while a great passer and dead-ball specialist, not even average at everything else that a midfielder needs to do (e.g. tackling, running etc). Needs 2 minders in midfield, mostly gattuso and one other, usually ambrosini but often forcing seedorf to play that role. Also needed a playmaker further forward like kaka or totti to make the game (and now dinho). In my opinion hugely overrated, escapes criticism when he has been shit gets all the glory when Milan or Italy do well, and only really had 2-3 good seasons considering how long he has been around.

    I can't wait for the Gerrard vs Lampard
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    Post by Lordanger Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:35 am

    iniesta v zidane... spain 1 -0 france
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    Post by Cheb Hamouda Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:19 pm

    Alive and Kicking wrote:I don't remember Kluivert being that good with headers. Bierhoff was a master at that.

    Batistuta vs Trezeguet vs Inzaghi

    Strange, some of his best goals were with his head, including the one in the 98' WC semi final vs Brazil in the dying stages of the game.

    I think the 3 strikers u mentioned are very different from each other, I dont think I have ever seen Inzaghi score from outside the box let alone attempt one while this was probably Batistuta's greatest asset.

    I think Trezeguet is a great poacher but still different from Inzaghi, I think the best comparison for Trezeguet would be Crespo who like Trezeguet has smooth and silky final touch.

    110% wrote:

    Xavi: great all-round player, difficult to fault his game. I can't say the same for Pirlo, while a great passer and dead-ball specialist, not even average at everything else that a midfielder needs to do (e.g. tackling, running etc). Needs 2 minders in midfield, mostly gattuso and one other, usually ambrosini but often forcing seedorf to play that role. Also needed a playmaker further forward like kaka or totti to make the game (and now dinho). In my opinion hugely overrated, escapes criticism when he has been shit gets all the glory when Milan or Italy do well, and only really had 2-3 good seasons considering how long he has been around.
    People often refer to Pirlo as a dead ball specialist before realising that he has more important aspects to his game than FKs.

    For me, Pirlo is the best tempo setter in the game, he is the most important element in Milan's famous counter attacks because very often when the team is under siege he is able to twist and turn in very dangerous areas before timing a great long ball forward. Some other players who play in this position try to be like him (e.g. Montolivo in last WC) but Pirlo is on another level, he does not release the ball too early or too late, he makes sure it goes to a player who can keep the ball in the opponents half so that the team can push up the field and put an end to the siege.

    Also his defensive game is very underrated, it has improved alot over the years, he used to be weak in the early part of the decade but he realises he is considered a leader for both club and country and he makes smart interceptions. Defending is not only about being tussling and being physical, the smarter defender knows how to stop the passage of play by intercepting the passes and Pirlo is very good in doing that.

    I admit Pirlo had a few bad season 2 seasons ago, when Milan and Italy were at their weakest, but like you said Pirlo's game depends a lot on the players around him, I do not see that as a bad thing, it shows you that he is a team player 100% and I like that especially when this player is very gifted. But you are wrong in saying that he escapes critisism when his team plays badly, just look at the last world cup, Italy had to go through the first 2 games and the first half of the Slovakia game without the injured Pirlo and the team had no rhythm whatsoever, but as soon as Pirlo came onto the pitch, and despite not being fit to play everything changed and Italy began to play as a team, no loose balls infront of the defence no useless forward balls, everyone becomes calmer and more confident just knowing that he is on the field.

    For me, Pirlo is the first player I would pick on my team, if I were to play against him I know that I will have to change my gameplan or atleast risk one man to man mark him all the time because he can cause damage from spots on the pitch where you would least expect him to.
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    Post by Allez les rouges Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:31 pm

    forza_rossi wrote:
    Alive and Kicking wrote:I don't remember Kluivert being that good with headers. Bierhoff was a master at that.

    Batistuta vs Trezeguet vs Inzaghi
    Is that really a comparison? Because from what i've seen of Batistuta, he was a lot more mobile than the other two. Frankly I dont think anyone can ever compare Inzaghi's poacher-ness to any striker's.

    Comparing Individuals Gerd-muller

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    Post by abundance Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:55 pm

    ok ok


    This man also, even if with smaller numbers and less consistency:
    Comparing Individuals Paolo_rossi4



    Also agree very much with Cheb on Pirlo, he's often unjustly dismissed as a limited specialist.
    The fact that he's often singled out when out of form is more of a sign of how crucial he is in the teamplay, rather than exposing him as a luxury player.
    Said that, I'd have Xavi over him any day of the week since 4 years at least.


    Thuram vs Stam, I'm all for Thuram, even if Stam was an awesome beast on his own.
    Thuram as a CB in his best days was second to none for me, very composed and intelligent player.
    He's sort of a Nesta/Maldini mash-up, both edged him up in their respective roles but he has his own place among the masters of defence.


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    Post by bluenine Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:50 am

    abundance wrote:
    bluenine wrote:I can see where Alive is coming from... as a RB, Thuram was one of the best in the world, right up there with Cafu & Zanetti (Late 90s were like the golden age of RB's). His best days were at Parma & WC98, that was his peak. Later in his career he clearly prefered to play CB (mostly because he was getting a bit slow for RB, and it was taking its toll on him) and he was quite competent at that role as well.
    He was RB with France, but for what I remember he played central defender, albeit in a 3 men defence, in his best days at Parma.
    Thuram playing on the right of Sensini & Cannavaro, that was a classic 3 man defence.... but also, they used to shift to a 4 man defence at times with Thuram as RB and Vanoli(?) as LB...
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    Post by Cheb Hamouda Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:51 am

    there was Benarivo at LB the captain

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