Gary Speed

I know Gary Speed's death has been discussed in this week's Premier League thread, but I thought it was worthy of its own thread, perhaps worthy of a more sustained discussion, and I didn't feel like putting my thoughts in the same thread in which I conceivably may deride, later in the week, Alex Ferguson and Manchester United for instance.

I was always fond of Gary Speed during and after his time as a Newcastle player; but I think it's especially evident at the moment that many football fans, even those outside of the clubs he played for, were fond of him. In a sense he wasn't the sort of player you might regard as your absolute favourite or passionately and floridly acclaim on a regular basis, because he wasn't a flair player and he didn't play in the right sort of role. Still he was hugely talented, intelligent on the pitch, and so fit and consistent and committed; I consider him alongside Robert Lee as one of the two best midfielders I've seen at Newcastle; and most significantly I think in his apparent integrity he was a fairly rare sort of player who made following the game deeply meaningful and sustainable.

It is fairly remarkable the number and the range of people who have spoken about or gestured towards him today, with so many younger players not only regarding him as a model, but also having been helped and supported by him, and nice gestures also coming from players playing abroad, including Xabi Alonso and Hugo Viana. The picture is most of all of a man always inclined to care about others.

I realise that, whilst we have it that he hung himself, we don't know why he did so, and the diagnosis of depression is one that has been presumed today without being confirmed. I don't really understand depression as an illness and because of my lack of knowledge I suppose I'm inclined to think of it more in emotional and psychological rather than medical terms. When I heard this news around one today, I was shocked, and about twenty minutes after hearing it I felt sad and started crying; and I think this was because despite the obvious distances between myself and Gary Speed and the fact that I didn't know him - and that something like this seems to suggest the impossibility of knowing another person no matter how close you are to them, never mind on the basis of a persona forged predominantly in public - I did feel close in a sense to him, because he mattered to me as a player, and I went to watch him play at St James' Park so many times, and he was an important part of good experiences; and also because it is inescapably sad the notion that someone feels things so thoroughly hopeless that they decide to kill themselves. Without understanding depression as an illness properly, I think it does make it harder to fathom and reconcile when someone with seemingly so much to live for commits suicide: it emphasises that feeling of hopelessness, suggests a depth of feeling that cannot be helped. Whatever the cause and the details, whether it was depression, whatever we find out, is largely unimportant because I think the same thoughts and feelings apply: the profound sorrow at someone being in such a way that they methodically take their own life. Being specific again, it is and I think will continue to be horrifying to consider Gary Speed preparing at some point overnight to hang himself.

Anyway, RIP Gary Speed.

Sad news indeed. Sometimes wish there is more one can do besides passing on condolences. A player and the Wales manager who everyone it seemed liked gone. His wife and specially the two sons will carry so much unanswered feelings deep inside. My heart goes out to them now they will have to be strong as the world remembers there great dad through the eyes of football.

Wonder what they will be wishing for this Christmas.

Rest in Peace Gary

Didn't really get a chance to throw my 2 cents into the Prem thread yesterday, as it's a difficult and emotive subject, but what can you say? I grew up watching Gary Speed like most in their mid 20's - early 30's. One of those non-Spurs players who you couldn't help but like and respect as a player. Ideal professional too.

Just be grateful that you have never felt like you had no option. Not that I have (thanks heavens) ever been in that position but taking the decision couldn't be easy and to think about ending it all is quite a scary prospect to me.

There's so much ignorance about depression and suicide in our culture - I think it's a throwback to the war, stiff upper lip and all that. Amazed how many times today I've heard "I saw him yesterday/last week and he seemed right as rain" - so naive to think it's always so easy to detect how somebody is really feeling.

The illusion is he was on top of his world - had a very good career and was nurturing potentially the best Welsh side in 2 decades. He was on Football Focus on Saturday as well. Just goes to show you can never really know.

Absolutely tragic news. A universally liked player and manager with an apparently promising career (with a potentially exciting generation of Welsh players) and future in store.

Seems hard to credit or believe after Robert two years ago. It seems worthless to speculate at the moment, though even with all the increasingly recognized pressures on professionals in the sport it seems that something more and different was at work, and yet it is beyond awful that no one could see anything like this coming.

Teresa Enke said (referring also to the unconquerable grief of a lost child) "Wir haben gedacht, wir schaffen alles, mit Liebe schafft man alles, aber es geht eben doch nicht immer" (We thought that we could do anything, get over anything, with love, but sometimes even that isn't enough). I think it was Crazy who described those at the time as perhaps the saddest words he had ever heard. I can only agree, but even if it seems so unremittingly bleak and hopeless I'm glad she said them, even if it doesn't do any good – if only because it brings these things into the open and reminds us that we have to help and look out for each other.

I was trying to explain who/what Gary Speed was to a friend of mine who doesn't follow football, it's rare in the modern era for such a good player to be universally liked. Usually a player like Speed would be considered overrated or arrogant or dirty by football fans, and it would be trite to suggest that he was underrated in his career because the truth is that he was always seen as a very dependable, talented player. I would describe him to those who perhaps missed his playing career as a cultured Gareth Barry. He was very strong, efficient, great in the air with a good all-round game. And perhaps he missed out on the usual fan vitriol because his playing career was just prior to this new hyper-opinionated forum age, where everyone is rubbished, over-analysed and over-paid; perhaps it was because he never played for England and so escaped the scorn of an overly optimistic/entitled nation; or, perhaps because he didn't play for a 'big' club in the Premiership era, he could always be admired without prejudice.

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Didn't really get a chance to throw my 2 cents into the Prem thread yesterday, as it's a difficult and emotive subject, but what can you say? I grew up watching Gary Speed like most in their mid 20's - early 30's. One of those non-Spurs players who you couldn't help but like and respect as a player. Ideal professional too.

Just be grateful that you have never felt like you had no option. Not that I have (thanks heavens) ever been in that position but taking the decision couldn't be easy and to think about ending it all is quite a scary prospect to me.

There's so much ignorance about depression and suicide in our culture - I think it's a throwback to the war, stiff upper lip and all that. Amazed how many times today I've heard "I saw him yesterday/last week and he seemed right as rain" - so naive to think it's always so easy to detect how somebody is really feeling.
The illusion is he was on top of his world - had a very good career and was nurturing potentially the best Welsh side in 2 decades. He was on Football Focus on Saturday as well. Just goes to show you can never really know.

Rather incredibly one of my best friends did exactly the same thing as Gary Speed yesterday. We found out at about ten last night. Some of the things you have said above could have been applied to her, always upbeat, bubbly, more good friends than anyone I knew and incredibly popular. None of us had even the slightest clue about how she was feeling which somehow just makes things worse and harder to comprehend. Yesterday really has baffled and shocked me, on both occasions.

COTR wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Didn't really get a chance to throw my 2 cents into the Prem thread yesterday, as it's a difficult and emotive subject, but what can you say? I grew up watching Gary Speed like most in their mid 20's - early 30's. One of those non-Spurs players who you couldn't help but like and respect as a player. Ideal professional too.

Just be grateful that you have never felt like you had no option. Not that I have (thanks heavens) ever been in that position but taking the decision couldn't be easy and to think about ending it all is quite a scary prospect to me.

There's so much ignorance about depression and suicide in our culture - I think it's a throwback to the war, stiff upper lip and all that. Amazed how many times today I've heard "I saw him yesterday/last week and he seemed right as rain" - so naive to think it's always so easy to detect how somebody is really feeling.
The illusion is he was on top of his world - had a very good career and was nurturing potentially the best Welsh side in 2 decades. He was on Football Focus on Saturday as well. Just goes to show you can never really know.

Rather incredibly one of my best friends did exactly the same thing as Gary Speed yesterday. We found out at about ten last night. Some of the things you have said above could have been applied to her, always upbeat, bubbly, more good friends than anyone I knew and incredibly popular. None of us had even the slightest clue about how she was feeling which somehow just makes things worse and harder to comprehend. Yesterday really has baffled and shocked me, on both occasions.

All the hollow EMB banter / posturing rubbish aside - really sorry to hear this mate. Best mate of mine's cousin did the same about 6 months ago and the ripple effect was pretty devastating. Allez hit the nail on the head, even if you/we don't understand depression, everyone has it in them to show patience, kindness and support to those who are directly or indirectly affected by this. It's not a time to be cynical IMO, people can be very cautious and unforgiving when they hear of people suffering depression or other mental health problems - as if the person involved is selfish, seeking attention or God forbid using it as an excuse to cover up their laziness, or indeed a lack of "strength" (ie so and so is just being a pussy). But that serves to keep the issue underground, and why so many suffer in silence.

COTR wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Didn't really get a chance to throw my 2 cents into the Prem thread yesterday, as it's a difficult and emotive subject, but what can you say? I grew up watching Gary Speed like most in their mid 20's - early 30's. One of those non-Spurs players who you couldn't help but like and respect as a player. Ideal professional too.

Just be grateful that you have never felt like you had no option. Not that I have (thanks heavens) ever been in that position but taking the decision couldn't be easy and to think about ending it all is quite a scary prospect to me.

There's so much ignorance about depression and suicide in our culture - I think it's a throwback to the war, stiff upper lip and all that. Amazed how many times today I've heard "I saw him yesterday/last week and he seemed right as rain" - so naive to think it's always so easy to detect how somebody is really feeling.
The illusion is he was on top of his world - had a very good career and was nurturing potentially the best Welsh side in 2 decades. He was on Football Focus on Saturday as well. Just goes to show you can never really know.

Rather incredibly one of my best friends did exactly the same thing as Gary Speed yesterday. We found out at about ten last night. Some of the things you have said above could have been applied to her, always upbeat, bubbly, more good friends than anyone I knew and incredibly popular. None of us had even the slightest clue about how she was feeling which somehow just makes things worse and harder to comprehend. Yesterday really has baffled and shocked me, on both occasions.

Condolences COTR. The case with Speed is sad but when you don't know the person it does seem to be a little more far removed. I can only imagine what it would be like if it were a friend. Best wishes to you, your friends, and the family.

Three hockey enforcers had taken there lives recently here in Canada all were well liked by everyone. Back home growing up our milkman was only 21 at the time he was the best friend of my mate he never saw this coming real happy friendly guy.

The media are really over hyping this, he is in severe danger of being Dianafied.

Have another guess. At least he achieved something in his life, unlike her.

Murray wrote:The media are really over hyping this, he is in severe danger of being Dianafied.

So what? If we were going to war with Russia it wouldn't be as big news, but as it is all that is happening at the moment is endless debt crisis stuff.

Out of interest, on the depression thing..do people who do this usually leave suicide notes? Or is that just bullshit that people talk about?

Or is it more likely someone would leave a note if it wasnt a depression thing?



Sorry to hear about your friend COTR, must be terrible.

May your soul rest in peace, Gary....

Sorry COTR.


Very likeable player - iconic but not in a superstar way, just very memorable for people of a certain age - the one with wavy, raven hair in the Leeds Top Man kit who your sister thought was fit.

I sort of agree with Murray.

A couple of days of us sharing our thoughts and the minutes silence then leave it to the families.

But by the time you've seen the kid who didn't even remember him wearing a shirt with "RIP Speed" on teh back kinda knowing he'll be on SKY during the minutes silence or have his picture in the paper you'll be sick of it too.

Hate people with old-school views on suicide - "they're selfish"

I don't think most of us can even comprehend that state of mind so why we expect that person to have seen their situation with teh same rationality that we do after they've gone is beyond me.

COTR wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:

Didn't really get a chance to throw my 2 cents into the Prem thread yesterday, as it's a difficult and emotive subject, but what can you say? I grew up watching Gary Speed like most in their mid 20's - early 30's. One of those non-Spurs players who you couldn't help but like and respect as a player. Ideal professional too.

Just be grateful that you have never felt like you had no option. Not that I have (thanks heavens) ever been in that position but taking the decision couldn't be easy and to think about ending it all is quite a scary prospect to me.

There's so much ignorance about depression and suicide in our culture - I think it's a throwback to the war, stiff upper lip and all that. Amazed how many times today I've heard "I saw him yesterday/last week and he seemed right as rain" - so naive to think it's always so easy to detect how somebody is really feeling.
The illusion is he was on top of his world - had a very good career and was nurturing potentially the best Welsh side in 2 decades. He was on Football Focus on Saturday as well. Just goes to show you can never really know.

Rather incredibly one of my best friends did exactly the same thing as Gary Speed yesterday. We found out at about ten last night. Some of the things you have said above could have been applied to her, always upbeat, bubbly, more good friends than anyone I knew and incredibly popular. None of us had even the slightest clue about how she was feeling which somehow just makes things worse and harder to comprehend. Yesterday really has baffled and shocked me, on both occasions.

Really sorry to hear about that mate. Sometimes love and close friendship just isn't enough. Don't beat yourself up wondering if you or anyone else could have saved her, the mask she put on when in your company means that it was very unlikely. Just remember the good times you had. Condolences to you and your circle of friends and her family.

Sorry to hear about your friend COTR, its a real shame.

When i heard about Speed i was probably more shocked than hearing about the death of lots of other celebs, it was so out of the blue. Its just incredibly sad, i was just thinking how its a shame he didnt talk to anyone (as far as we know) but people cope with things differently. Whatever has happend to cause it, it left him in a dark lonley place were he felt that the only way out was to end it all....its just very tragic.

He was a great player, very consistent and gave his all in every game..a real old school captain. He has a great left foot and was awsome in the air for his height. He was a fans favourite, a player fans respected even if he didnt play for their club. Off the pitch he seemed a decent fella, down to earth and never involved in controversey. Its all these qualities that made him so likeable and it seemed he had everything to live for with his management career starting so well and thats why people are so shocked and saddened by it all.

RIP Gary !!

Pierre Litbarrski wrote:

Hate people with old-school views on suicide - "they're selfish"

I don't think most of us can even comprehend that state of mind so why we expect that person to have seen their situation with teh same rationality that we do after they've gone is beyond me.

A-fucking-men :ale

Sorry to hear about your friend COTR.

Over the years, I have been lucky enough not to lose close friends or family to suicide but I do have close friends who have. I see the problems some people have with such an action, that it's 'selfish' etc. However I have found that is rarely the feeling experienced by those close to the deceased; more often, there is an overwhelming and lasting sense of guilt, why didn't they know how desparate they were, why couldn't they help?. A sense of anger may come later, but, to begin with, the survivors are traumatised by shock, grief and guilt and I imagine that will be the same for Speed's family.

This will be especially true as, it appears, that Speed's death came out of the blue for all those who knew him. With some clinically depressed people, you know that it will happen one day; others may be living with problems they have kept secret from everyone, which eventually overwhelms them. The hazard of being a well-known public figure like Speed is that, even if they can live with the problem, there will be those who try to exploit such a situation. I heard today that there is an internet rumour going around to that effect regarding Speed's death and I sincerely hope that wasn't the case, because he deserved far better than that. And if the primitiveness of football community's attitudes and the amorality of tabloid culture allowed to it happen, then yesterday was indeed a black day.

His agent seems to think there were no signs of a problem at all..is it normal to be able to completely hide something like depression from someone you see so often?

Does seem unusual, but not necessarily improbable. Some people are brought up to be incredibly private about sharing their feelings.

Rumours circulating around the internet that the Sun were going to run an exposé that he was gay. Most likely that's just baseless gossip, but people are obviously looking for a reason, to understand.

Yeah there is a lot going about at the moment, as expected. Affairs, being outed, gambling debts...just some of the things being suggested.

No answer is really going to appease anyone though, but im sure something will end up coming out in the press either way.

My first reaction was...overdose..

Seriously though, what a shame! He was a player of a team I liked when I started to watch EPL.

But like cancer, I do think depression is a bit of a welfare/white men disease. Caused by the Anglo-saxon individualistic consumer society of today.

Justin Fashanu being the classic example.

Really sorry to hear about your friend, COTR.

I've seen several rumours circulating round the internet over the last couple of days; none of them seem to have circulated especially strongly, but one seemed more dominant on Saturday evening, whilst another had taken its place by last night. They all appear, like you say Pele, attempts to find an apparently obvious and logical reason for something that feels incomprehensible. The fact that Speed was found hanged in his own home is hard to reconcile with some of the rumours suggesting that there was set to be some exposé regarding him in the papers. But despite the sort of reputation depression has, it is still so strange to hear of how close he was to so many people, to hear of all the things he was doing and plans he was making as late as Saturday evening - Shearer has said that he was with Speed on Saturday and they planned Speed and his wife going up to visit Shearer's family next weekend; Bryn Law on Sky Sports has recalled Speed sending him a jocular text message on Saturday afternoon regarding his grey hair.

Again, it is remarkable all the players who were profoundly affected by Speed during their careers. Several of our former players, including Shearer, Lee, Harper, Watson and Solano, have described him as a close friend; and players who were very young or who played minor roles while Speed was at Newcastle have expressed their grief given how generous he was with them. Even Marcelino, who was an outcast at Newcastle, detested by the fans for signing for a big fee, taking a big wage, yet rarely playing in over three years at the club, has expressed his shock and described Speed looking out for him at Newcastle, and staying in touch in the proceeding years.

Fey wrote:My first reaction was...overdose..

Seriously though, what a shame! He was a player of a team I liked when I started to watch EPL.

But like cancer, I do think depression is a bit of a welfare/white men disease. Caused by the Anglo-saxon individualistic consumer society of today.

Some of the highest suicide rates in the world are in poor non-white countries.

Kimbo wrote:

Fey wrote:My first reaction was...overdose..

Seriously though, what a shame! He was a player of a team I liked when I started to watch EPL.

But like cancer, I do think depression is a bit of a welfare/white men disease. Caused by the Anglo-saxon individualistic consumer society of today.

Some of the highest suicide rates in the world are in poor non-white countries.

Also poor countries often have a much better sense of community, it's easy to feel isolated in a western country.

There's suddenly rumours popping up that Duncan Ferguson was having an affair with Speeds wife and that his kids (or possibly one just of them depending on which thing you read) werent his..

It's only on twitter that ive seen so far, so im guessing it's just the usual bollocks..but I believe the Giggs affair stories started on there as well, before the papers could print it.

I heard it was Aaron Lennon.

Speed's wife and Aaron Lennon, not Duncan Ferguson and Aaron Lennon. That would be an aberration.