Veron retiring.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/conversation?id=1050113&cc=5739

The legend is retiring One of the great midfielders of the last 20 years no doubt :

He was a master at controlling games and was great technically.Some English people who only watch DPL underrate him because he "flopped" for Man United but they fail to realize it was Fergies fault for trying to fit square pegs in round holes.

This is how you control a game:





One of my favorite players ever,he was one of the best players in the world at Parma and Lazio.

His form for Lazio was really amazing. I remember debating with a friend whether we should have signed Veron instead of Zidane. At the time you could make a pretty compelling case for Veron. Top player.

One of my favourite Man Utd flops

Fey wrote:One of my favourite Man Utd flops

Shut up Fey!

What does flop and flop for
mean？

Thank you！

Flop is slang for somebody failing.

What a player he was. He should have been selected over Tevez in the match against Germany in the WC.

Great technical player, as is the norm with Argentine midfielders, but far from perfect. Overrated by football purists who think it's fashionable to fawn over deep lying playmakers who have eons of time on the ball and class this slow tempo passing as "dictating" games. We all do it though. Just check out the Greece example FFS.

The reason Veron failed in the Premier League is he was asked to play in athletic midfields where he was given far less time on the ball, and as a result struggled to dictate anything. Like Riquelme, he typified the slow bodied Argentine player of the 90's who excelled in the slow non pressing deep midfield of international football, Argentine and Italian football.

Put him in the hard working midfield environment of today's La Liga for example and he would almost certainly struggle. Just as he did in the DPL at a time when it was the most successful league in Europe.

He's no Xavi. He's no Pirlo. He's no Schweinsteiger. He's no Alonso. These guys are quicker in thought and movement, more hard working along with the technique and vision, and why they've been able to succeed in higher tempo games in that same position than Veron.

Top player? Yes, absolutely. Not denying it. Certainly a legend for Lazio fans, perhaps even Argentines.

Great to watch when in his comfort zone? Oh definitely.

But worthy of being classed as an all time legend? Debatable when there are many superior in that position.

Disco Benny wrote:Great technical player, as is the norm with Argentine midfielders, but far from perfect. Overrated by football purists who think it's fashionable to fawn over deep lying playmakers who have eons of time on the ball and class this slow tempo passing as "dictating" games. We all do it though. Just check out the Greece example FFS.

The reason Veron failed in the Premier League is he was asked to play in athletic midfields where he was given far less time on the ball, and as a result struggled to dictate anything. Like Riquelme, he typified the slow bodied Argentine player of the 90's who excelled in the slow non pressing deep midfield of international football, Argentine and Italian football.

Put him in the hard working midfield environment of today's La Liga for example and he would almost certainly struggle. Just as he did in the DPL at a time when it was the most successful league in Europe.

He's no Xavi. He's no Pirlo. He's no Schweinsteiger. He's no Alonso. These guys are quicker in thought and movement, and why they've been able to succeed in higher tempo games in that same position than Veron.

Top player? Yes, absolutely. Not denying it. Certainly a legend for Lazio fans, perhaps even Argentines.

Great to watch when in his comfort zone? Oh definitely.

But worthy of being classed as an all time legend? Debatable when there are many superior in that position.

This bit is were I made my mind up that you were trolling.

Just for the record he doesn't struggle under pressure,he weren't a success at United because Fergie wanted him to play in a 2 man midfield,it's Fergies fault for trying to fit square pegs in round holes.

And sorry Schweinsteiger and Alonso are brilliant players but Veron was quite a lot better,if you watched football outside the DPL you would probably agree.It's funny that you mention Alonso,he struggles more under pressure than Veron did,Vergon was more technically gifted and more mobile than him.

Veron is awesome. He completely dictacted play as a box to box playmaking midfielder for Argies. He didn't deserve to be on losing side in that 98 QFs. Create so many chances. Batistuta hit the post. Ortega slowed the pace with his dribbling. And created the goal too. What a player

He still has some of the best through passes in the brief period for United.

Fade out wrote:Veron is awesome. He completely dictacted play as a box to box playmaking midfielder for Argies. He didn't deserve to be on losing side in that 98 QFs. Create so many chances. Batistuta hit the post. Ortega slowed the pace with his dribbling. And created the goal too. What a player

Someone who watchted him Please tell MWP that he wasn't some one dimensional player who could only play when he had lots of time on the ball.

Trolling what exactly?

I don't think anything I've said is remotely controversial.

The EPL was the most successful league in Europe during the period around mid 2000's. I don't decide these things, Mr Coefficient points does.

Let's not blame Veron. SAF likes to have a functional midfielder, acting like a quarterback. A role that suites Carrick, later-Scholes (earlier Scholes is an overrated goal scoring AM), Xabi Alonso. Shifting to the wings, and getting into the box. Very rarerly defense splitting through passes.

Here we go again,what a xenophobic wanker.Veron played for United between 2001 and 2003.That was when the DPL was far weaker than Serie A and La Liga.DPL teams didn't even reach a final of the CL between 1999 and 2005.

Such a pathetic little England,thinking the DPL has been the best for the last 20 years

You don't/didn't even watch Serie A or La Liga so your opinion means fuck all.

And let's not forget that United side had the overrated Ruud Van Nistelrooy, who makes every other central playmaker look average. He made everyone (bar Beckham/Giggs who put in crosses) look considerably worse.

Basque Power wrote:

Disco Benny wrote:Great technical player, as is the norm with Argentine midfielders, but far from perfect. Overrated by football purists who think it's fashionable to fawn over deep lying playmakers who have eons of time on the ball and class this slow tempo passing as "dictating" games. We all do it though. Just check out the Greece example FFS.

The reason Veron failed in the Premier League is he was asked to play in athletic midfields where he was given far less time on the ball, and as a result struggled to dictate anything. Like Riquelme, he typified the slow bodied Argentine player of the 90's who excelled in the slow non pressing deep midfield of international football, Argentine and Italian football.

Put him in the hard working midfield environment of today's La Liga for example and he would almost certainly struggle. Just as he did in the DPL at a time when it was the most successful league in Europe.

He's no Xavi. He's no Pirlo. He's no Schweinsteiger. He's no Alonso. These guys are quicker in thought and movement, and why they've been able to succeed in higher tempo games in that same position than Veron.

Top player? Yes, absolutely. Not denying it. Certainly a legend for Lazio fans, perhaps even Argentines.

Great to watch when in his comfort zone? Oh definitely.

But worthy of being classed as an all time legend? Debatable when there are many superior in that position.

if you watched football outside the DPL

Applying this argument every time someone disagrees with you doesn't cut it I'm afraid, aside from the fact that the individuals I've recommended who were better than Veron in his positon play outside the DPL, one doesn't have to support 20 odd teams across Europe to acquire the intelligence on how to switch the "on" button on the remote to watch games being played in a vast, darkened wilderness they call "abroad".

Sure, Veron was played out of position at United, higher up the pitch.

However, that's my point. It's far easier to look like a top player when you're not being pressed and sitting nice and deep. We all make this mistake when we fawn over deep lying playmakers.

He had neither the same flexibility, speed of thought, mobility or defensive awareness to make him a superior player to the ones aforementioned.

Sorry we don't agree. Too bad huh. Must be because I'm a xenophobic wanker. Meanwhile you provide intelligent insight without country-specific bias ever coming into play. DPL

We should stop disserving talents saying how they failed in the other league.

Sometimes it's to do with right timing, right formation, right manager, and even off-the-pitch surroundings.

Veron flopped in EPL, Bergkamp flopped in Serie A, Samuel flopped in Liga, Sheva flopped in EPL, Kaka flopped in La liga doesn't invalidate them as great players.

Exactly,I bet you MWP rates Cantona as a great striker even though he only ever performed in the DPL when it was a weak era.

I find it hard to take his opinions on Veron seriously,it's obvious he has hardly watched him play going by his description on Verons playing style.

Alonso and Swiney better than Veron.

Fade out wrote:We should stop disserving talents saying how they failed in the other league.

Sometimes it's to do with right timing, right formation, right manager, and even off-the-pitch surroundings.

Veron flopped in EPL, Bergkamp flopped in Serie A, Samuel flopped in Liga, Sheva flopped in EPL, Kaka flopped in La liga doesn't invalidate them as great players.

It's not a case that Veron was a flop, he just always struck me as the type of player who excelled under certain comfortable conditions, namely being given time in unpressurised situations in midfield.

Let's not also forget that Veron was Bielsa's key player in the 2002 World Cup, the player he openly admitted in the build up was his main man, the player to build the team around. And it didn't work - against England, Erickson who had coached him at Lazio, knew if Butt closed him down quickly he would struggle, which he did. He completed 16 of 35 passes against England, and Argentina struggled because Bielsa persisted and the Swedes did exactly the same thing. I'm not saying he lives and dies on this game or tournament, but why dismiss it when it's a clear example of how he was far from perfect. But then it must be because I'm a DPL Xenophobic wanker

If Worms would have calmly read my post without reacting immediately like a serially offended limp wristed helmet over a comment about the DPL's place in European football at the time (coefficients from the time show it was 2nd, so my mistake), he'd notice I fully understand why he's deemed a legend by Lazio / Argentine fans. But he's no Maradona, he even had his chance to follow in Diego's footsteps in 2002 and utterly failed.

And to be called xenophobic from someone so entrenched in devaluing everything related to English football is quite poignant in it's irony

Basque Power wrote:Exactly,I bet you MWP rates Cantona as a great striker even though he only ever performed in the DPL when it was a weak era.

I find it hard to take his opinions on Veron seriously,it's obvious he has hardly watched him play going by his description on Verons playing style.

Alonso and Swiney better than Veron.

Alonso might be pushing it, but he was key to Liverpool winning a CL. He was / is also more defensively sound than Veron, and has played an important part in winning the World Cup with Spain.

Schweinsteiger was utterly imperious in 2010 World cup for Germany, and has been key to Bayern's resurgence in Europe.

Xavi, doesn't even need discussing when you consider he ability to play out of tight spaces in midfield.

Serious now Worms, rising above the (admittedly amusing) baiting or petty bickering: you strike me as someone who has a deep affection for "luxury" players like Ibrahimovic and Veron. What I'd counter is that you seem not to notice that there is a whole lot more to being a legend then how many perfect passes they can play, or how many defenders they can beat whilst looking stylish on tv. Might also explain why you think Messi is overrated, despite the incredible amount of work he does off the ball for his team. It's the disease of the armchair fan who don't get to appreciate the game from a wide perspective, where luxury players who look nice on telly often do so to the detriment to the rest of the team. Where style is more decisively important than function.

If this wasn't the case, then you would fully appreciate why I've offered up Swiney in particular as superior deep lying playmakers than Veron.

I love the way you assume that I think he was as good as Maradona.

Lets judge him on one bad game where the whole Argentian team massively under performed.

It's obvious the only games you have watched him play are games in the DPL or international games against your beloved 3 Lions.

MWP La Liga will be the number 1 ranked league in coefficient points in the summer,will you then admit La Liga is the best league in the world?

Worms, sweetheart,

I AM the one saying he's not as good as Maradona. Don't worry about it.

It's obvious YOU WANT to believe I never saw him at Sampdoria and Lazio, when Serie A was shown regularly on both Channel 4 and Channel 5. Or for Argentina when the Copa America and qualifiers were shown on beloved sky sports.

Clue: you aren't the only one capable of picking up a remote control

All I've said about Veron is solely my opinion: it may or may not be based on a true story, in which characters resembling individuals present or historic is purely coincidental. But I'd bet my intentions are truer than anything you've ever uttered since you've been on here

And when on Earth have I said La Liga isn't the best league in the World?? Of course it is the strongest currently.
Obviously you have no idea how hard that is to admit for a little England (half English), Xenophobic (born in Africa, about to marry a non-English girl, Hungarian mother, Russian grandmother, moving to America) wanker

Disco Benny wrote:

Basque Power wrote:Exactly,I bet you MWP rates Cantona as a great striker even though he only ever performed in the DPL when it was a weak era.

I find it hard to take his opinions on Veron seriously,it's obvious he has hardly watched him play going by his description on Verons playing style.

Alonso and Swiney better than Veron.

Alonso might be pushing it, but he was key to Liverpool winning a CL. He was / is also more defensively sound than Veron, and has played an important part in winning the World Cup with Spain.

Schweinsteiger was utterly imperious in 2010 World cup for Germany, and has been key to Bayern's resurgence in Europe.

Xavi, doesn't even need discussing when you consider he ability to play out of tight spaces in midfield.

Serious now Worms, rising above the (admittedly amusing) baiting or petty bickering: you strike me as someone who has a deep affection for "luxury" players like Ibrahimovic and Veron. What I'd counter is that you seem not to notice that there is a whole lot more to being a legend then how many perfect passes they can play, or how many defenders they can beat whilst looking stylish on tv. Might also explain why you think Messi is overrated, despite the incredible amount of work he does off the ball for his team. It's the disease of the armchair fan who don't get to appreciate the game from a wide perspective, where luxury players who look nice on telly often do so to the detriment to the rest of the team. Where style is more decisively important than function.

If this wasn't the case, then you would fully appreciate why I've offered up Swiney in particular as superior deep lying playmakers than Veron.

I think Messi is overrated because of the reasons I have listed in that thread.The point is I don't class Veron as a luxury player,watch the Holland vs Argentina 98 match,he's very hard working and he is a very dynamic player.Ibra has to have the team to be fit around him to bring the best out of him,if you want to call him a luxury player fine but he is one of the only players in the world who is capable of making the rest of his team play in a completely different way just by his inclusion and he masks the deficiencies of his team mates.

I have watched Swiney and Veron play and I rate Veron as not only more artistic but the more effective player as well.

Disco Benny wrote:Worms, sweetheart,

I AM the one saying he's not as good as Maradona. Don't worry about it.

It's obvious YOU WANT to believe I never saw him at Sampdoria and Lazio, when Serie A was shown regularly on both Channel 4 and Channel 5. Or for Argentina when the Copa America and qualifiers were shown on beloved sky sports.

Clue: you aren't the only one capable of picking up a remote control

All I've said about Veron is solely my opinion: it may or may not be based on a true story, in which characters resembling individuals present or historic is purely coincidental. But I'd bet my intentions are truer than anything you've ever uttered since you've been on here

And when on Earth have I said La Liga isn't the best league in the World?? Of course it is the strongest currently.
Clearly you have no idea how hard that is to admit for a (half English) little England, Xenophobic (born in Africa, about to marry a non-English girl, Hungarian mother, Russian grandmother, moving to America) Wanker

Fair enough,so you're a African with a Hungarian mother and Russian Grandmother

Basque Power wrote:

Disco Benny wrote:Worms, sweetheart,

I AM the one saying he's not as good as Maradona. Don't worry about it.

It's obvious YOU WANT to believe I never saw him at Sampdoria and Lazio, when Serie A was shown regularly on both Channel 4 and Channel 5. Or for Argentina when the Copa America and qualifiers were shown on beloved sky sports.

Clue: you aren't the only one capable of picking up a remote control

All I've said about Veron is solely my opinion: it may or may not be based on a true story, in which characters resembling individuals present or historic is purely coincidental. But I'd bet my intentions are truer than anything you've ever uttered since you've been on here

And when on Earth have I said La Liga isn't the best league in the World?? Of course it is the strongest currently.
Clearly you have no idea how hard that is to admit for a (half English) little England, Xenophobic (born in Africa, about to marry a non-English girl, Hungarian mother, Russian grandmother, moving to America) Wanker

Fair enough,so you're a African with a Hungarian mother and Russian Grandmother

In a nutshell.

I'm not black though, so would make a good creative midfielder

Disco Benny wrote:

Basque Power wrote:

Disco Benny wrote:Worms, sweetheart,

I AM the one saying he's not as good as Maradona. Don't worry about it.

It's obvious YOU WANT to believe I never saw him at Sampdoria and Lazio, when Serie A was shown regularly on both Channel 4 and Channel 5. Or for Argentina when the Copa America and qualifiers were shown on beloved sky sports.

Clue: you aren't the only one capable of picking up a remote control

All I've said about Veron is solely my opinion: it may or may not be based on a true story, in which characters resembling individuals present or historic is purely coincidental. But I'd bet my intentions are truer than anything you've ever uttered since you've been on here

And when on Earth have I said La Liga isn't the best league in the World?? Of course it is the strongest currently.
Clearly you have no idea how hard that is to admit for a (half English) little England, Xenophobic (born in Africa, about to marry a non-English girl, Hungarian mother, Russian grandmother, moving to America) Wanker

Fair enough,so you're a African with a Hungarian mother and Russian Grandmother

In a nutshell.

I'm not black though, so would make a good creative midfielder

You might do but not as good as Veron ,even though I think he has some black in him.So you are basically half English,half Half Hungarian/Russian and born in Africa.

I am English,was born in England and live in England.I guess because of relentless globalization and mass immigration over the last 50 years it means I am the strange one nowadays

"Utterly imperious"

One of my favourite players ever,

To compare him to alonso it a bit much, he was better than pirlo too, just made the wrong move, at a critical point in his career.

messiah wrote:One of my favourite players ever,

To compare him to alonso it a bit much, he was better than pirlo too, just made the wrong move, at a critical point in his career.

Pirlo was integral to Italy's World Cup win in 2006, and of course Milan's CL success.

Whilst it obviously helped having a player like Gattuso running around like a sex starved lunatic next to him, he's probably the best deep lying playmaker of recent times prior to Xavi.