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Machiavel
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    Mr Total Football appreciation thread.

    Machiavel
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    Post by Machiavel Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:19 pm

    If Holland were the team that gave the world Total Football, then Johan Cruyff was THE Total Footballer.
    Cruyff was one of a number of youngsters who emerged with Ajax of Amsterdam in the late Sixties and came to dominate European and world football in the early Seventies.

    Cruyff was the most outstanding of them all and was seen by many as the natural successor to Pele as the world's greatest player.

    He won a hat-trick of European Cups with Ajax, the World Clubs' Cup and was three times European Footballer of the Year. At their peak, the Dutch side he captained were the most exciting and talented team in international football, yet, strangely, they never won a major trophy during his reign.

    Total Football was not a new idea when the Dutch picked it up. It had been around since the Fifties when it was known as The Whirl. But it was first Ajax then Holland that brought it to prominence.

    The idea was to build a team in which all of the players had equal levels of technical ability and physical strength. In its execution it meant that all the players were capable, at any point in a game, of switching into each other's roles as circumstances demanded.

    Anyone could do anything. Defenders became forwards, forwards became defenders.

    Strictly speaking, Cruyff played centre forward in this system. But he would drop deep to confuse his markers or suddenly move to the wing with devastating effect. Once there, according to the reference book Soccer: The World Game, "a favourite trick out on the left-wing was to drag the ball behind him with his right foot, turn through 180 degrees and accelerate away outside a bemused defender."

    No one had seen a centre forward like that before.

    Cruyff was born in Amsterdam in 1947 close to the Ajax ground. His mother worked as a cleaner at the club and it was she who persuaded the coaches to admit her son to their youth development system at the age of 12.

    It was the English coach Vic Buckingham who recommended that the club sign him on a contract and Cruyff made his senior debut when he was 17. Naturally, he scored. Two years later he was playing for Holland, grabbing the last-minute equaliser in his first match - a 2-2 draw against Hungary.

    Dutch football, traditionally, had been largely amateur. But by the mid-1960s it was beginning to make the change to a professional game. The most influential man in the development of the country's football was Rinus Michels who became manager of Ajax in 1964. Within seven years his team was the best in Europe.

    Bill Shankly's Liverpool suffered an early taste of what was to come, losing 5-1 to Ajax in Amsterdam in a European tie. By 1968 Ajax had won a hat-trick of Dutch Championships and the following season reached the final of the European Cup. They lost 4-1 to AC Milan, but were on the brink of achieving greatness.

    Cruyff had grown into a powerful, long-striding athlete. He had wonderful balance, deadly speed and breathtaking ball control. But his greatest quality was vision, based on an acute sense of his team-mates' positions as an attack unfolded.

    The sports writer David Miller believed Cruyff superior to any previous player in his ability to extract the most from others. He dubbed him "Pythagorus in boots" for the complexity and precision of his angled passes and wrote: "Few have been able to exact, both physically and mentally, such mesmeric control on a match from one penalty area to another."

    http://www.ifhof.com/hof/cruyff.asp

    A Tribute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21d8_BqMaMw
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:23 pm

    yep found ihof when i was about 8
    good website, well top 100 ish player is it?

    he had a massive ego, the only problem rai
    people say holland might have won the world cup if cruffji had picked ( cant remeber his name) the other keeper, but he picked that crap one lol

    sorry i cant remember, what the names were lol
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    Post by Machiavel Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:30 pm

    @ punty

    There are many reason's why Holland should have won that WC ...one in particular is 'diving' Germans..but that's in the past now.

    Cruijff had a ego, but that was what made him special - he was like a leader on the pitch, he wanted to and DID dictate play.

    Cruijff is the only player i can think of that made a whole team adapt to his style of play and make if efficient and flawless that they won the European Cup 3 times in a row...

    check this site out: http://www.europeancuphistory.com/euro72
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:32 pm

    even tho against germany, well in that world cup, cruffji refused to play with your best keeper, probs played for feyanord, and you picked a worser keeper.

    sorry i watched a documentry about this about 2 months ago so i cant remember the names
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    Post by Machiavel Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:36 pm

    punty wrote:even tho against germany, well in that world cup, cruffji refused to play with your best keeper, probs played for feyanord, and you picked a worser keeper.

    sorry i watched a documentry about this about 2 months ago so i cant remember the names

    Cruijff had a great relationship with the great Rinus Michels, so something like that will not amaze me, but its down right silly.

    oh..Cruijff was the first Dutchman to be sent of in a international..
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:40 pm

    Jan Jongbloed
    thats the keeper he picked, people said the he picked the dutch team
    http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1974/final_ger_v_hol.html

    i like cruijiff tho, an amazing player, do you think if his mum was'nt a cleaner, he would have played?
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    Post by Machiavel Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:42 pm

    punty wrote:Jan Jongbloed
    thats the keeper he picked, people said the he picked the dutch team
    http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1974/final_ger_v_hol.html

    i like cruijiff tho, an amazing player, do you think if his mum was'nt a cleaner, he would have played?

    I and many Ajax fans worldwide are grateful to Mrs Cruijff's career path...without her having that job - i dare Ajax will be not as great (yes total football will still be there..but Cruijff is Mr Total Football.)
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:42 pm

    lol, would you rate bergkamp near him?
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    Post by Machiavel Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:50 pm

    punty wrote:lol, would you rate bergkamp near him?

    No. I'm sorry no one to have ever worn the shirt of Ajax can come close...OK i write a list of greats

    1. Cruijff
    2. Neeskens
    3. Krol
    4. van Basten
    5. Keizer
    6. Bergkamp


    Put it this way -- Bergkamp = assist/goal

    Cruijff = all round (defence, midfield, attack)
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:52 pm

    what about guilt? rijkaard?

    van basten relied a hell of alot on gullit, when he played for ac milan
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    Post by Machiavel Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:57 pm

    punty wrote:what about guilt? rijkaard?

    van basten relied a hell of alot on gullit, when he played for ac milan

    Gullit never played for Ajax..

    Rijkaard was special -- its down to his experience a 'youthful' Ajax side won the Champions League in 95'

    van Basten status as a 'complete' forward came in his last years @ Ajax and his years at Milan (as you correctley pointed out, his relationship with Gullit)

    Cruijff, Neeskens and Krol; i place at the top 3 -- because of their importance for Ajax from 1969-73
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    Post by Hardrada Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:48 pm

    The keeper that Punty refers to is van Beveren (Magic) who was not picked, but Jongbloed was (Doh)

    Johan Cruijff cost Holland two World Cups

    Holland has been known for an attacking, entertaining style of football throughout the last 30 years. One of the masterminds behind their style was Johan Cruijff, the elegant dribbler and good finisher, who also set up attacks while showing his teammates where to go. What a blessing to have him around? By no means! The presence of Cruijff, and most of all his struggle for power behind the scenes, cost Holland dear. To be more exact, two World Cup titles! On the field, Johan Cruijff has been one of the best things that could ever happen to Dutch football, off the field he has been the worst by far.

    Jan van Beveren, the extremely talented PSV-goalkeeper, was a man who played for the crowd. A wizard, capable of doing magical things between the posts. The best Holland had ever had, by a mile. Cruijff and Van Beveren, the biggest row in Dutch football history. With the most dramatic consequences. They must have been enemies since they first met. The tall and flexible Van Beveren opposed very heavily to all privileges Cruijff had in the Dutch squad: arriving late for trainingcamps, not having to play at all because of business-affaires, smoking in the dressingroom. And, like so often in Holland, it was about money. Van Beveren, not afraid of standing up against the emancipated Ajax-players, said: we're in it together, everyone has to work for a good result, so we all have the same rights and the same duties. But that was not the case in the Holland-team, Cruijff was the "animal to be created equal, but a little more equal than the others".

    When Van Beveren got injured badly in 1973, Cruijff immediately took his chance to get rid of this powerthreatening teammate. With his big influence on coaches, he talked Amsterdam-born Jan Jongbloed into the squad for the World Cup 1974. He was a rather mediocre, elderly goalkeeper who previously had played just one cap, as a substitute in 1962. Of course Jongbloed, who never in his life had expected this invitation, gladly accepted a role in Cruijff's shadow, where Van Beveren - with the world at his feet - wanted to win the title and to get global recognition for the superb goalie he was. With both Cruijff and Van Beveren in the team, it had been to be seen who would have been considered as the greatest star in the Dutch team. Cruijff knew it, couldn't accept another superman beside him and persuaded coach Rinus Michels to draft in Jongbloed. Van Beveren still could have made it to the finals, since he had recovered in may. He just needed one or two weeks to regain match-fitness. But Michels urged him to play a meaningless testgame against Hamburger SV, or to stay at home. Other more or less injured players got the chance to prove their fitness until a couple of days before travelling to Germany. Van Beveren, had he gotten the same opportunity, would have been fit for the first match against Uruguay. It wasn't to be, Holland lost the final after conceding two soft goals.

    Between 1974 and 1978, Cruijff again managed to keep his big rival out of the team. Because Van Beveren was in his best form they just couldn't ignore him, again the were some quarrels (Van Beveren left the team in 1975 but came back later) and in the end he was left on the bench behind three different goalkeepers. When he asked Jan Zwartkruis why he had been picked at all when it was clear that he would never play, the coach said: "Jan, don't blame, I am being manipulated. I have no chance." Cruijff had threatened never to play for Holland again, with Van Beveren in the same team. And the Dutch people would never have forgiven the coach, who let Cruijff go. Van Beveren knew enough, withdrew from the Dutch team after 32 caps. It was 1977, the world's best goalkeeper was just 29 years of age.

    Jan van Beveren is the best goalkeeper the world has ever seen. But he's never recognized as the best, and that is mainly because he never made it to the stage of the World Cup. And that is because he wasn't a part of the Ajax-clan of the seventies. Everybody may say I'm crazy, I don't mind. I can judge him, I've seen many games of him, I can compare him to other goalies and .... I have a sense of soccer. He could stop shots like I've never seen anybody doing, and in a majestical style. He would have saved Müllers soft shot easily, with both eyes closed and with his left hand bound on his back. He would have had a fair chance to save Breitner's weak penalty-kick. Don't ever think that Van Beveren would have allowed Kempes and Bertoni to squeeze through and take Argentina to the worldtitle. With Jan van Beveren as their goalkeeper, Holland would have been World Cup winners in 1974 and 1978. Cruijff also wanted to be a world champion, but only if he could be the one and only star himself. And it proved to be not enough.
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    Post by Since 1888 Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:51 pm

    About van Beveren. Never saw him play but he was a true Sparta legend.

    As I said before, Cruijff is an idiot.
    Great player though.
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:34 am

    thats the one hadrada
    sorry i could'nt find it, i got jongbold right tho lol
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:55 am

    @ SpartaR

    Cruijff may have had the tendencies for 'outbursts' but that's why we love him...

    Forza Cruijffiaans!

    Heres Some:

    On Italian striker Filippo Inzaghi: "Look, actually he can't play football at all. He's just always in the right position."

    "Before I make a mistake, I DO NOT make that mistake."

    Speed is often confused with insight. When I start running earlier than the others, I appear faster
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:01 am

    Who has seen this Movie:

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    Post by Since 1888 Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:06 am

    rai Mihawk wrote:Who has seen this Movie:

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    I did, in the airplane to NYC.

    But van Beveren should have played nevertheless. Wink
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    Post by Cesc Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:09 am

    Have not seen the movie, the book 'Ajax, Barcelona, Cruyff' was a very good read though.

    What does Cruyff do thesedays, does he have work in the Dutch media?
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:11 am

    OK; van Beveren should have played...that movie was brill (had some anti-Real Madrid sentiments) i didn't watch it because of that..only to see how Cruijff is regarded by the Catalan people (he only joined Barcelona and turned down a move to Real Madrid because he didnt want to join a team associated with Franco...imagine if he did join Real Madrid what legends they would have had..Puskas, Di Stefano, Cruijff)

    Best bit of the movie: i think Butragueño of the famous Quinta del Buitre saying Cruijff was his hero...even though he was playing for the team he hated...

    See what Cruijff can do ..
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    Post by golsud Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:29 am

    rai Mihawk wrote:OK; van Beveren should have played...that movie was brill (had some anti-Real Madrid sentiments) i didn't watch it because of that..only to see how Cruijff is regarded by the Catalan people (he only joined Barcelona and turned down a move to Real Madrid because he didnt want to join a team associated with Franco...imagine if he did join Real Madrid what legends they would have had..Puskas, Di Stefano, Cruijff)

    Best bit of the movie: i think Butragueño of the famous Quinta del Buitre saying Cruijff was his hero...even though he was playing for the team he hated...

    See what Cruijff can do ..

    A TRUE Legend Smiley
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    Post by Since 1888 Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:16 pm

    Faas Wilkes died!!
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    Post by Tom Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:17 pm

    me>cruyff
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:04 pm

    Ballack wrote:me>cruyff

    No.
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    Post by Tom Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:08 pm

    rai Mihawk wrote:
    Ballack wrote:me>cruyff

    No.
    why not?
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:11 pm

    Ballack wrote:
    rai Mihawk wrote:
    Ballack wrote:me>cruyff

    No.
    why not?

    Cruijff single handily changed how one team played.

    also, he smoked 20 cigarettes a day..now its only Chupa Chups for him...
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    Post by Tom Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:12 pm

    rai Mihawk wrote:
    Ballack wrote:
    rai Mihawk wrote:
    Ballack wrote:me>cruyff

    No.
    why not?

    Cruijff single handily changed how one team played.

    also, he smoked 20 cigarettes a day..now its only Chupa Chups for him...
    I single handily changed the way my team plays. If i let goals in, my team attacks more.

    I chew more than 40 pieces of gum a day

    me>cruyff
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:17 pm

    Ballack wrote:
    rai Mihawk wrote:
    Ballack wrote:
    rai Mihawk wrote:
    Ballack wrote:me>cruyff

    No.
    why not?

    Cruijff single handily changed how one team played.

    also, he smoked 20 cigarettes a day..now its only Chupa Chups for him...
    I single handily changed the way my team plays. If i let goals in, my team attacks more.

    I chew more than 40 pieces of gum a day

    me>cruyff

    Cruijff won 3 European Cups (1971, 72, 73)
    - La Liga
    - 3 time European Player of the Year
    - Finalist of a World Cup
    - Invented a move (Cruijff turn)
    - Won the Cup Winners Cup (with Ajax), European Cup (with Barcelona)
    - The most successful manager of Barcelona (4 La Liga titles in a row : 1991-94)
    - He has a cup named after him (Johan Cruijff-schaal.)
    - Played at the Emirates Stadium
    - Barça fans love him (choose them over a team associated with Franco, Real Madrid)
    - Cruyff won the European Cup as a player and coach, one of the few to do so.
    - voted by UEFA as the greatest European player of their 50 years

    thats just a few...beat it Very Happy
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    Post by Tom Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:22 pm

    rai Mihawk wrote:
    Ballack wrote:
    rai Mihawk wrote:
    Ballack wrote:
    rai Mihawk wrote:
    Ballack wrote:me>cruyff

    No.
    why not?

    Cruijff single handily changed how one team played.

    also, he smoked 20 cigarettes a day..now its only Chupa Chups for him...
    I single handily changed the way my team plays. If i let goals in, my team attacks more.

    I chew more than 40 pieces of gum a day

    me>cruyff


    - Invented a move (Cruijff turn)
    - Won the Cup Winners Cup (with Ajax), European Cup (with Barcelona)
    - The most successful manager of Barcelona (4 La Liga titles in a row : 1991-94)
    - He has a cup named after him (Johan Cruijff-schaal.)
    - Played at the Emirates Stadium
    - Barça fans love him (choose them over a team associated with Franco, Real Madrid)
    - Cruyff won the European Cup as a player and coach, one of the few to do so.
    - voted by UEFA as the greatest European player of their 50 years

    thats just a few...beat it Very Happy

    Tom has won 5 European Cups (1971, 72, 73, 74, 75)
    - 10 La Ligas
    - 30 time European Player of the Year
    - World Cup winner 8 times
    - Invented 2 moves (The Save, and the Punch)
    - Won 5 Cup Winners Cup (with Chelsea), 2 European Cups (with Chelsea)
    - The most successful manager of the world (15 world titles in a row : 1991-2006)
    - He has a 2 cups named after him (Tom-Cup, Chattaway Cup.)
    - Played at every Stadium
    - fans love him
    - Tom won 10 European Cups as a player and coach, one of the few to do so.
    - voted by UEFA as the greatest European player of their 500 years

    There you go Rai....
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:23 pm

    @ Ballack

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Cruijff
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    Post by Tom Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:24 pm

    @ Rai

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

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