Are Argentina the new Brazil?

Seems to me like the Argies are now the team to fear, lets face it Brazil's front line are hardly scary anymore are they?, look at Argentina's, Crespo, Tevez, Milito, then you have Messi behind them,

besides Ronaldinho and Kaka Brazil aren't that menacing, whereas Argentina boast class all around the pitch!

Brazil's lack of a top level striker is massive. Also could do with a young midfield playmaker from what I've seen.

Gilberto, Robinhio, Kaka & Ronaldinhio are 4/6 of the way there.

Argentina have strong players for every position.

Argentina have players on form which is true and with Brazil may not be setting the World alight ..

I don't think its fair to say Argentina are the new Brazil as both nations have their unique styles of Football.

Its 'instant success' people want.

Brazil also seem to lack balance. Dinho and Kaka together in the same team really doesn't seem to work. ITs tantamount to the problems we had with Lampard and Gerrard (back when they were both good 3 years ago as opposed to now when most of us want BOTH of them dropped)

If England played Brazil at the moment I'd be confident of an England win, if they played Argentina they would get slaughtered.

Luis wrote:If England played Brazil at the moment I'd be confident of an England win, if they played Argentina they would get slaughtered.

I reckon we'd draw 1-1 with goals from Terry, then Diego

Ye I mean not a friendly.

Tweedle wrote:

Luis wrote:If England played Brazil at the moment I'd be confident of an England win, if they played Argentina they would get slaughtered.

I reckon we'd draw 1-1 with goals from Terry, then Diego

Argentina are the better team. IMO they were unlucky to go out to Germany at the WC and it was purely down to suicidal substitutions by Peckerman.

I reckon they'd have gone on to win it in fact, beating Italy and France

Luis wrote:Are Argentina the new Brasil?

mmm...Id' love to think that all these years of preying to the mendez sacred image has worked but I doubt it...

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img341/4936/dibujoju9.jpg

Seeing how trim Ronaldo looks at the moment, I'm thinking Dunga should recall him.

I agree with Maverick anyway. They're not the 'new Brazil' because they play completly different styles. Brazil do look very disjointed, but I think with a couple of changes of personnel (new striker, GK, & CM) they'd be fine. Argentina's DM's (Cambiasso/Gago/Mascherano) are all great passers of the ball. The likes of Gilberto S & Minero aren't. Brazil should replace one of them with a CM, and play Kaka, Ronaldinho, Robinho as an attacking three with Ronaldo in front.

Argentina are playing fantastic football however, and I agree that they should have won the World Cup, and is often said the Copa America is the last chance for their golden era to win a trophy (Ayala, Crepo, Veron, Zanetti & possibly Riquelme & Aimar)

Ronaldinho and Kaka does work, but at the World Cup Ronaldinho was played out of position, and since then it's just been a bunch of friendlies where they haven't played a proper formation, and there have been lots of substitutions. The lack of a striker to either partner or replace Ronaldo when he's injured also makes it appear worse. In defence and defensive midfield they are fine, but it's finding the 2 strikers or 1 striker and attacking midfield parter for Ronaldinho and Kaka that is a problem.

--------------Gomez--------------
RB--------Lucio------Alex---------LB
-------------DM-----CM---------------
Robinho-------Kaka--------Ronaldinho
----------------Ronaldo----------------

Don't think there is a more daunting front four in world football. Fatty doesn't look so far anymore (infact he looks pretty lean) and he scores for fun irregardless of his weight.

I'm pretty sure Ronaldo will be recalled, in recent months he's always had an injury when Brazil games came around.

Dunga is to blame for this Brazil...I mean they have quality strikers!!! They just dont get a chance

Argentina 98>>This Argentina.

The Argies are playing wel at the moment, but Brazil still have the two best players in the world and a true 'endless conveyor belt of talent'. They just have a rubbish manager, that is destroying the team.

dunga is trying to give other strikers a chance until ronaldo has a run of games and finds form and fitness, but none are half as good as ronaldo even now.

he'll be back and brasil with ronaldo would beat argentina.

Bollocks. Brazil have all types of players they'll ever need.
The strikers are there as well: Afonso Alves and Ronaldo (now that he's back to some sort of form). Both are better than Crespo. Even Fred is a decent back-up, so its not like they don't have any.

The problem lies with the selection and tactics. Dunga's selection isn't the best but he also doens't use what he has right. One of his biggest mistakes is that chooses a two DM system. It can be grudgingly accepted (its a managers choice after all), but to make it (and the team) work the remaining attacking players need to be the best they have and to be in sync with each other. Dunga's Brazil fails both requirements.

First, his outright dodgy selection impedes him from starting the best/better players, and the players he both are a mixbag that can only score a scrappy goal (Baptista? Elano? Not using Diego right! Not using Afonso at all!!). Its all down Robinho then.
At his own club Elano is living in the shadow of Mathusalem, and he isn't selected!
Also, their best keeper isn't even selected: Gomes

The biggest joke is Vagner Love upfront, the definition of overrated mediocrity. It prefer the fat static akinesia suffering Ronaldo of the WC than him. Afonso is one of the best prospects I have ever layed my eyes upon, and he already is verging on WC. He doesn't even get a chance.

At the snap of a finger Brazil can display class on all positions.

And to go back to two DM system, the attacking players play as if they met each other in the tunnel for the first time. They are playing miserably out of sync. I also don´t think they complement each other correctly (Elano, Baptista), and only Robinho has to work the wing.

No wonder it all looks so uninspiring, but its not down to the players at all. Its 80% down to the man in charge: Dunga.

Dunga likes his defensive (2 DMs) percentage football. No-one could imagine Brazil ever appointing such a coach.

Tweedle wrote:Argentina are the better team. IMO they were unlucky to go out to Germany at the WC and it was purely down to suicidal substitutions by Peckerman.

So much rubbish on these boards.

And then you see it : like a rose on a garbage heap...


(I couldn't agree more Tweeds )

Bet if that match was against the Dutch, you and 80% of the board would have said different thing. So predictable.

blutgraetsche wrote:Bet if that match was against the Dutch, you and 80% of the board would have said different thing. So predictable.

Huub Stevens HELPED you lot by giving his database to Lehman. So a thanx to Huub would be nice....especially from Otto!

As if we need Dutch databases with a pedantic and über-precise Swiss bloke like Siegenthaler in the staff. The Swiss are the super-Germans, more German than the Germans themselves.

blutgraetsche wrote:Bet if that match was against the Dutch, you and 80% of the board would have said different thing. So predictable.

Go watch that match again, look at everything Julio Ricardo "Greg Louganis" Cruz does and then tell he could not as well have been wearing a German shirt.

You were playing 12 vs 10 from that moment.

...I'm not bullshitting you on this.

...Lehman ASKED Stevens for it...Cause Huub has made one himself of probably everyone in the world!!! Huub is awesome. And thanx to a Dutchie you made the Semi's. And what did we get....Ohne Holland Fahren wir nach Berlin!!!! And this is how you thank us????? SHAME!

If you look at it superficially, Pekerman made a mistake by replacing Riquelme and going defensive. But he actually was forced to, because the players were exhausted. They had a very tough match against Mexico prior to that, and the match against us was very exhausting also, because both teams neutralised each other in the midfield most of the time.

The victory against Argentina was a phyrric one, not just because of the ugly scenes started by Argentina players after the match (-> Frings didn't play in the semis), but the fact that it was very exhausting, and even the fittest team in the tournament couldn't go another 120 min at full force against a strong Italian side.

Fey wrote:...Lehman ASKED Stevens for it...Cause Huub has made one himself of probably everyone in the world!!! Huub is awesome. And thanx to a Dutchie you made the Semi's. And what did we get....Ohne Holland Fahren wir nach Berlin!!!! And this is how you thank us????? SHAME!

Funny how you Dutchies praise Huub now all of the sudden, I remember you guys even saying that he isn't one of yours, due to his rather "pragmatic" style of football.

But maybe due to Van Basten's Rumpelfussball, things have changed in the West.

We'd have made the semis regardless. We are Germany, penalties are our passion.

who cares about Argentina or Brazil these days



the truth is

Germany are the New Germany

Pekerman committed football suicide in the Germany game, not even imbeciles like Sven, McClaren, MVB would have done what he did.

I remember the camera panning to the Argie bench during extra time and seeing Aimar, Messi, Riquelme and Crespo all sat there, wondering how can a manager be so stupid to leave us all on the bench.

I know Klose had never scored against a decent team, but surely Pekerman must have known that every dog has his day.

Rez, I know you are extremely biased when it comes to Germany, but tell me this: Which goal was more "joga bonito", Ayala's one after a corner, or Klose's, with a build up by Ballack and Borowski?

@Blut

Sorry couldnt resist. Kloses goal was indeed very good and was clearly superior to the goal scored by Ayala. I remember thinking he is actually a good player (although not as good as Otto made him out to be).

Germany deserved to progress as the surrender football Pekerman tried to get away with, should never be rewarded.