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    The gap in class in the EPL

    Tweesus
    Tweesus


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    Post by Tweesus Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:20 am

    Team P W D L F A W D L F A GD PTS
    1 Arsenal 25 11 2 0 29 8 7 4 1 23 10 34 60
    2 Man Utd 25 12 1 0 31 3 6 3 3 18 9 37 58
    3 Chelsea 25 8 4 0 23 8 8 2 3 15 9 21 54
    4 Everton 25 7 2 3 23 11 6 3 4 17 12 17 44

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    5 Liverpool 24 5 6 1 26 9 6 4 2 14 8 23 43
    6 Aston Villa 24 7 2 4 20 16 4 6 1 23 15 12 41

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    7 Man City 25 9 3 1 21 11 2 5 5 11 17 4 41
    8 Blackburn 25 5 4 4 13 13 5 5 2 19 18 1 39
    9 Portsmouth 25 3 7 2 15 10 7 1 5 20 16 9 38
    10 West Ham 24 5 4 3 15 12 5 2 5 14 10 7 36

    GAP

    11 Tottenham 25 6 2 4 33 22 1 6 6 12 19 4 29
    12 Newcastle 24 5 4 3 16 17 2 2 8 11 25 -15 27
    13 Bolton 25 5 4 4 17 11 1 3 8 9 23 -8 25
    14 Middlesbrough 24 3 4 5 13 18 3 3 6 8 19 -16 25
    15 Wigan 25 5 2 5 15 14 1 3 9 9 26 -16 23
    16 Sunderland 25 6 3 3 15 13 0 2 11 9 32 -21 23
    17 Reading 25 6 1 6 14 19 0 3 9 16 33 -22 22

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    18 Birmingham 25 3 4 5 13 14 2 2 9 11 23 -13 21
    19 Fulham 24 2 5 5 16 21 0 5 7 7 21 -19 16
    20 Derby 25 1 3 8 8 21 0 3 10 5 31 -39 9

    A pretty large 7 point gap has formed between 10th and 11th placed clubs.

    Looking at the clubs above, they're all capable of finishing in the 5th/6th spots.

    Of the teams below the gap, its fair to say that Spurs have massively underachieved this season and I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to sneak into the top 8 or so. 6th will be a bridge too far though I think.

    Of the rest below the line, Newcastle and Middlesbrough stand out.

    Boro haven't really invested toom much in the squad in the last couple of years, and losing Yakubu and Viduka was a huge blow for them. Alves is a step in the right direction though and they have a fantastic youth academy which seems to be constantly churning out players with EPL potential.

    Newcastle have been underachieving this season, like Spurs, but unlike spurs they lack a lot of quality, especially in central midfield. I expect Ashley will give Keegan a fair sum to address this in the summer though.

    So, at the moment, the gap that has formed, probably isn't a true reflection on team quality.

    Aside from the teams I've mentioned below the line though, is there any chance for the other teams?

    None have any real standout player that you'd value at over £10m. They generally don't have particularly highly regarded managers. If they manage to stay up this season, along with next seasons promoted teams they'll be regarded as relegtion candidates.

    So, is there a noticeable gap now forming in the EPL?

    Of all the teams above the gap, there aren't any that I could imagine slipping up next season and having to fight it out to stay up. They all have good depth, quality across the pitch and one or two stand out players that would command large transfer fees.
    S4P
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    Post by S4P Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:54 am

    The gap between the top 3 and 4th is ridiculous.
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:24 pm

    S4P wrote:The gap between the top 3 and 4th is ridiculous.

    I said the other day...there is a class difference between the top 3 and the others...Liverpool are not in the same class as the top 3. They are ahead of the rest though...slightly.
    Balls Grayson
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    Post by Balls Grayson Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:33 pm

    Liverpool are in a league of their own, betwix the top 3 and the rest. Spurs, like Liverpool, are in a false position, both clubs having minor crisis' which should rectify themselves before the end of the season.

    Everton, Villa, Portsmouth etc will all bust a gut to qualify for the UEFA cup next season, just so they can field weakened teams and get knocked out early doors Rolling Eyes because their main ambition next season will be qualifying for Europe.
    debaser
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    Post by debaser Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:45 pm

    Glynn Hensen wrote:Liverpool are in a league of their own, betwix the top 3 and the rest. Spurs, like Liverpool, are in a false position, both clubs having minor crisis' which should rectify themselves before the end of the season.

    Everton, Villa, Portsmouth etc will all bust a gut to qualify for the UEFA cup next season, just so they can field weakened teams and get knocked out early doors Rolling Eyes because their main ambition next season will be qualifying for Europe.
    only blackburn did that this season, others are all still in there. even bolton Shocked
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    Post by Batman Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:47 pm

    I think Portsmouth could finish in the top 4 this season because if you look at their remaining fixtures, they got no more games against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd to play.

    Liverpool still have to play the top 3 away, plus Portsmouth will be getting their players back from the ACN soon and they now got Diarra and Defoe, two really good signings imo.
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    Post by shazlx Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:52 pm

    Batman wrote:I think Portsmouth could finish in the top 4 this season because if you look at their remaining fixtures, they got no more games against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd to play.

    Liverpool still have to play the top 3 away, plus Portsmouth will be getting their players back from the ACN soon and they now got Diarra and Defoe, two really good signings imo.
    I still think their midfield lacks creativity and I dont like their LB.
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    Post by Balls Grayson Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:53 pm

    debaser wrote:
    Glynn Hensen wrote:Liverpool are in a league of their own, betwix the top 3 and the rest. Spurs, like Liverpool, are in a false position, both clubs having minor crisis' which should rectify themselves before the end of the season.

    Everton, Villa, Portsmouth etc will all bust a gut to qualify for the UEFA cup next season, just so they can field weakened teams and get knocked out early doors Rolling Eyes because their main ambition next season will be qualifying for Europe.
    only blackburn did that this season, others are all still in there. even bolton Shocked

    there's no way you can tell me these sides take the UEFA cup as seriously as the big 4 take the CL.
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    Post by Dwarf Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:56 pm

    debaser wrote:
    Glynn Hensen wrote:
    Everton, Villa, Portsmouth etc will all bust a gut to qualify for the UEFA cup next season, just so they can field weakened teams and get knocked out early doors Rolling Eyes because their main ambition next season will be qualifying for Europe.

    only blackburn did that this season, others are all still in there. even bolton Shocked

    Due to another failing of the current UEFA Cup. Our national coefficient is higher than half the teams who compete year in year out and so our teams get a cushy seeding till the knock out stages, then they go out in the first round.

    It should be an unseeded straight two leg knock out competition. Would solve the majority of problems with the UEFA Cup at the moment.


    Last edited by on Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:58 pm

    Portsmouth still have away games against:
    Tottenham, West Ham, Everton and Man City. They also have away games against Boro and Bolton which are not easy.

    They should pick points up with the home games they have left...but I don't think they'll finish top 4...mainly because of the amount of home f@ck ups this season, and the tough away games they have left.
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    Post by Balls Grayson Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:58 pm

    Batman wrote:I think Portsmouth could finish in the top 4 this season because if you look at their remaining fixtures, they got no more games against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd to play.

    Liverpool still have to play the top 3 away, plus Portsmouth will be getting their players back from the ACN soon and they now got Diarra and Defoe, two really good signings imo.

    the big 4 haven't been a big problem for Pompei this season, their home form has and losing games against the likes of Sunderland, Borough, Blackburn etc.

    Liverpool going away to the top 3 will be more of a worry for the home side IMO
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    Post by Deano Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:01 pm

    Liverpool have to travel to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham Yikes

    Looking at all the fixtures and the small gap in points...it's gonna go down to the wire.
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    Post by debaser Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:04 pm

    Glynn Hensen wrote:
    debaser wrote:
    Glynn Hensen wrote:Liverpool are in a league of their own, betwix the top 3 and the rest. Spurs, like Liverpool, are in a false position, both clubs having minor crisis' which should rectify themselves before the end of the season.

    Everton, Villa, Portsmouth etc will all bust a gut to qualify for the UEFA cup next season, just so they can field weakened teams and get knocked out early doors Rolling Eyes because their main ambition next season will be qualifying for Europe.
    only blackburn did that this season, others are all still in there. even bolton Shocked

    there's no way you can tell me these sides take the UEFA cup as seriously as the big 4 take the CL.
    well no, obviously not. but uefa qualification isn't as useless as you seemed to be implying, it's progression. experience for the players which would be useful should they ever make the champions league. e.g. everton now would probably be better equipped if they finished 4th than they were 3 years ago.
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    Post by Deano Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:06 pm

    Debaser, how do you rate your chances of 4th? As much as any of the other teams around you?

    You have to travel to Arsenal, Man Utd, Everton, West Ham and Portsmouth yet...I guess it's not much of a different scenario to anyone else, but you think you'll do it?
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    Post by Balls Grayson Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:08 pm

    Matthew Upson wrote:Liverpool have to travel to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham Yikes

    only Arsenal have a better away record than Liverpool in the league
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    Post by Batman Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:08 pm

    The teams around 4th spot should hope that Liverpool have a good run in the Champions League(not win it) and the FA Cup.
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    Post by Batman Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:09 pm

    Glynn Hensen wrote:
    Matthew Upson wrote:Liverpool have to travel to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham Yikes

    only Arsenal have a better away record than Liverpool in the league

    Whats been Liverpools toughest away win this season in the Prem, Everton?
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    Post by L.r.d Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:10 pm

    Glynn Hensen wrote:
    Matthew Upson wrote:Liverpool have to travel to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham Yikes

    only Arsenal have a better away record than Liverpool in the league

    And thats why
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    Post by Deano Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:10 pm

    Glynn Hensen wrote:
    Matthew Upson wrote:Liverpool have to travel to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham Yikes

    only Arsenal have a better away record than Liverpool in the league

    Judging by what I saw on Wednesday night, I have to say I'm surprised ok.

    Either way, these are 4 very tough away games, that surely you don't expect to win. Good away form or not.
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    Post by fcb Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:10 pm

    Glynn Hensen wrote:
    Matthew Upson wrote:Liverpool have to travel to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham Yikes

    only Arsenal have a better away record than Liverpool in the league

    But it could be argued that Liverpool's better away record is partly (or mostly) down to not facing any of those teams above. I doubt any other team in the table has yet to travel to those 4 grounds.
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    Post by debaser Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:14 pm

    Matthew Upson wrote:Debaser, how do you rate your chances of 4th? As much as any of the other teams around you?

    You have to travel to Arsenal, Man Utd, Everton, West Ham and Portsmouth yet...I guess it's not much of a different scenario to anyone else, but you think you'll do it?
    i don't think we're strong enough for 4th. it's not impossible - we've got a great away record, so if we got draws in some of those games and win the easier home games, there'd be a chance, but i think we'll fall short. i reckon we have a good chance of staying in the top 6 though.

    our next 3 games will probably give the answer as to whether we have a shot of 4th. fulham away, newcastle home, reading away. need at least 7pts from them if we're serious. you can afford to drop points at arsenal, utd, so long as you're winning the easier games - as everyone around us will be dropping points vs the top 3
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    Post by shazlx Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:05 pm

    Glynn Hensen wrote:
    Matthew Upson wrote:Liverpool have to travel to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham Yikes

    only Arsenal have a better away record than Liverpool in the league
    So thats where we've improved. I thought it was mainly becuase we stopped drawing at home to beatable teams. Good stat for us. Especially as we've gone and won up north to ManC and Everton.
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    Post by Sheffield gunner Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:12 pm

    shazlx wrote:
    Glynn Hensen wrote:
    Matthew Upson wrote:Liverpool have to travel to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham Yikes

    only Arsenal have a better away record than Liverpool in the league
    So thats where we've improved. I thought it was mainly becuase we stopped drawing at home to beatable teams. Good stat for us. Especially as we've gone and won up north to ManC and Everton.

    Our biggest weakness has been dropping points against teams in the bottom half of the table (Birmingham, Boro, Newcastle). Our record against the other teams in the top half of the table is a fair bit better than Man Utd's from what I remember.
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    Post by S4P Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:28 pm

    Glynn Hensen wrote:
    Matthew Upson wrote:Liverpool have to travel to Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham Yikes

    only Arsenal have a better away record than Liverpool in the league

    Chelsea P13 W8 D2 L3 26
    Arsenal P12 W7 D4 L1 25
    Liverpool P12 W6 D4 L2 22

    And we've played Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool and Aston Villa all away from home.
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    Post by fcb Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:29 pm

    Can't use that stat though, you've played a game more.
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    Post by S4P Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:32 pm

    kas wrote:Can't use that stat though, you've played a game more.

    Even if Pool win their 'away game in hand' (Stamford Bridge) they'll still be a point behind. Arsenal may only be a point behind, but they still have to go to SB and OT.
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    Post by debaser Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:13 pm

    debaser wrote:
    Matthew Upson wrote:Debaser, how do you rate your chances of 4th? As much as any of the other teams around you?

    You have to travel to Arsenal, Man Utd, Everton, West Ham and Portsmouth yet...I guess it's not much of a different scenario to anyone else, but you think you'll do it?
    i don't think we're strong enough for 4th. it's not impossible - we've got a great away record, so if we got draws in some of those games and win the easier home games, there'd be a chance, but i think we'll fall short. i reckon we have a good chance of staying in the top 6 though.

    our next 3 games will probably give the answer as to whether we have a shot of 4th. fulham away, newcastle home, reading away. need at least 7pts from them if we're serious. you can afford to drop points at arsenal, utd, so long as you're winning the easier games - as everyone around us will be dropping points vs the top 3
    and we have our answer... Sad
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    Post by Tweesus Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:17 pm

    Batman wrote:I think Portsmouth could finish in the top 4 this season because if you look at their remaining fixtures, they got no more games against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd to play.


    If they can also somehow hang onto Benjani then they have one of the best squad depths in the league.

    Their midfield in particular is very strong
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:42 pm

    The gap between us and the likes of Villa & Everton has been exactly the same for a dozen matches. Which tells you everything you need to know about our form post-October.
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    Post by Sgoater1 Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:08 am

    In terms of our hard games we play U*d (A) and Everton (H) in our next games and then only have Chelsea and Pompey both hme and Liverpool away to play. Less games against the top half teams than any other. Im still confident we can maybe push for the top 6 and maybe 4th if we can rediscover our form after a very hard run of games against all the top sides. (Arsenal, Liverpool, West Ham, Blackburn, Villa, Newcastle have been 6 of our last 7 games, but we still picked up 7 points from those 6 games and only lost 1)

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