Porto accused of bribing referee

Why don't I read anything about this on the boards ?

FC Porto has been officialy charged by the Portuguese FA for bribing refs for two matches in the 2003-2004 season.

Mourinho was Porto's manager at the time.

What's the whole story on this one ?


FC Porto officieel aangeklaagd voor omkoping

31/03/2008 22:29

De Portugese bond heeft FC Porto officieel in staat van beschuldiging gesteld. De club zou in het seizoen 2003/04 in twee duels de scheidsrechter hebben omgekocht.

De wedstrijden tegen Estrela da Amadora en Beira Mar zouden zijn gemanipuleerd door FC Porto. In het seizoen 20003/04 was José Mourinho de succesvolle coach van de Dragões.

FC Porto heeft vijf dagen om een schriftelijk verweerschrift op te stellen. Daarna zal de Portugese bond een vonnis vellen over de beschuldigingen. Een forse boete maar ook degradatie is een mogelijke straf als de omkoping ook daadwerkelijk wordt bewezen.

Well it happens in every latin country, its just the way they do business there.

Nothing saying it doesnt happen here as well though.

Lies!!!

Same old, same old, since we began winning stuff every single Porto hater in the country says that we buy the reffs.
That has been going on for many years but now they finnally manage to take it to the courts with a book written by an old mistress of the Porto president. It was an irrelevant game that we draw when we've already had the title in the bag against Beira -Mar. Since it is against Porto the media takes it as the final prove we bribe everyone and judge it and sentence it all in a row before it even starts. And are all now for a crusade against all the corruption (in other words Porto and his president).
So the ex, a person who hates his guts badlly writes in a book a lot of nonsense with the help of other Porto haters personalities and they are all ecstatic because what they can´t achieve in the field they want to achieve outside the grass.

But giving the bitternes of so many supporters and the hate towards us nothing really surprises me anymore.

Protheus wrote:
That has been going on for many years but now they finnally manage to take it to the courts with a book written by an old mistress of the Porto president.

Ah, that old chestnut : I remember reading about it.

....must indeed be dragging on for ages, because it was quite a while ago I read about it.

So now the club has to defend itself against hearsay ? Good luck : that's almost impossible to do

Protheus wrote:Same old, same old, since we began winning stuff every single Porto hater in the country says that we buy the reffs.
That has been going on for many years but now they finnally manage to take it to the courts with a book written by an old mistress of the Porto president. It was an irrelevant game that we draw when we've already had the title in the bag against Beira -Mar. Since it is against Porto the media takes it as the final prove we bribe everyone and judge it and sentence it all in a row before it even starts. And are all now for a crusade against all the corruption (in other words Porto and his president).
So the ex, a person who hates his guts badlly writes in a book a lot of nonsense with the help of other Porto haters personalities and they are all ecstatic because what they can´t achieve in the field they want to achieve outside the grass.

But giving the bitternes of so many supporters and the hate towards us nothing really surprises me anymore.

You know Pro, I actually wish that was the truth... it would mean all the $h!t that happens in our league really just is down to bullshit refs and poor decisions... unfortunately I don't think that's the case at all. It's not even about hating Porto or not though, you guys sound like the benfiquistas when you say that btw - it actually does seem that a lot of things portistas tend to 'hate' about Benfica I've seen in Porto and it's fans for a while now - it's about wanting real sport in Portugal... and I don't think we've had that in several seasons.

This isn't a new issue and it's not about the games that Porto played after it was already the champ... it's about the "injuries" to the players it loans out to other clubs everytime Porto comes to town, the delayed matches beyond what the league alows, it's about ripped jerseys, players untouched by deserved suspensions, prostitutes and various other gifts refs tend to get from Porto directors ect. There are simply too many cases of balls being defended outside of the box and various other plays that tend to go Porto's way... but overall it's not always that evident during your games as that would get even more rediculous than things have been in the past... it's also about the points refs have kept other clubs, Sporting at times, from getting when in good position.

Now, of course you'll have your defence and claim Sporting has just been poor, and yes at times that has been true... but it helps when the refs give a hand... which for as much as Porto fans like to say the refs hate them, you've had on your side.

You won't agree and that's fine. But there's too many things that go on in Portugal and it's really one of the reasons why our league doesn't advance...

Does Porto cheat? IMO, yes they've done a lot of work behind the scenes to get where they are. I think what's sad is that they're now in a position in which they don't even need to anymore, they haven't needed to for some time, but I guess old habbits die hard. That said, I can think of recent seasons in which they did deserve to win...but they've reached this point with shaddy business.

Porto is unquestionably the best run Portuguese club there is, building a unique identity in what was a two club league and the instilling this club philosophy and spirtis in it's players and staff, and yet it's the fact they've been dealing behind the scenes for so long untouched and the trophies they've been able to win as a result of this that is their real signature.

Axeslammer wrote:Why don't I read anything about this on the boards ?

FC Porto has been officialy charged by the Portuguese FA for bribing refs for two matches in the 2003-2004 season.

Mourinho was Porto's manager at the time.

What's the whole story on this one ?


FC Porto officieel aangeklaagd voor omkoping

31/03/2008 22:29

De Portugese bond heeft FC Porto officieel in staat van beschuldiging gesteld. De club zou in het seizoen 2003/04 in twee duels de scheidsrechter hebben omgekocht.

De wedstrijden tegen Estrela da Amadora en Beira Mar zouden zijn gemanipuleerd door FC Porto. In het seizoen 20003/04 was José Mourinho de succesvolle coach van de Dragões.

FC Porto heeft vijf dagen om een schriftelijk verweerschrift op te stellen. Daarna zal de Portugese bond een vonnis vellen over de beschuldigingen. Een forse boete maar ook degradatie is een mogelijke straf als de omkoping ook daadwerkelijk wordt bewezen.

What's the point of talking about such a small flash-point? They've been threatened with loosing 6 points... bascially nothing will happen.

We should be talking about dropping division and championships taken away...

I think that the real problem is that Portistas tend to think it's against Porto. My own personal opinion is that FCPorto, as much as Sporting and Benfica is a victim of curruption. I disagree 100% in any club being punished when the aleged criminal is the president or anyone else within the running of the team.
I also think it's a shame when Portistas don't speak out against corruption. I would want any person found guilty of this type of corruption banned from office, and indeed banned from entering any football stadium.
If they can prove that Pinto da Costa is involved in this corruption I would think all good football fans, regardless of their allegiance, would want him out of football. And the same should be said for the dirigents of SLB and SCP.

Axeslammer wrote:

Protheus wrote:
That has been going on for many years but now they finnally manage to take it to the courts with a book written by an old mistress of the Porto president.

Ah, that old chestnut : I remember reading about it.

....must indeed be dragging on for ages, because it was quite a while ago I read about it.

So now the club has to defend itself against hearsay ? Good luck : that's almost impossible to do

And when I pointed out that Mrs Fascistopoulous - the widow of the former Greek dictator - said her deceased husband said he helped fix the UEFA Cup for Panathinaikos in the 70s, about thirty+ years later, well after his death, that wasn't hearsay, how? Even more unlikely as the Colonels had links to fierce local rivals Olympiacos. It might be true, but that quality of evidence should not be enough to charge a cat let alone swing it.

Oh i am not playing the victim part. The truth is that all, and yes i mean all the 3 bigs get the ref decisions more favorably than the other clubs and that is a fact no need to hide the head in the sand. Now you talk about hype situation that happen a lot between rivary clubs but that is also a biased point of view of one of the parts too. I have seen tons of ref decisions in all the years i have been watching footbal but the thing is many supporters and media have a "selective memory" and only reffer, and like you did too, Porto gossip. So i take it all are saints except for us. I see a lot of gossips about us that you take it as proven and on the other hand the rest are all justified situation... get real. This is about as "clubite"biased as it gets. All see the things the way they want. The fact is we were better in the 90's 00's, like Sporting were better in the 40's 50's, like Benfica were better in the 60' 70' and so on. When opposition supporters do not win they talk about refs or anything outside the games to justify their failures. Since we start to win they created an idea about us buyng everyone as this can justify their failures. It is funny how they are never incompetent, it is always about deciding outside the games

Remember the 17 penalties season for example? The "away" games in the middle of the season? The sumarissímos being used when a Porto player is the target? Players suspended while the others are injured while others break the legs and injured our players and the decision is not the same? Phone calls between two presidents about a referee for a cup game...oh wait it was not Porto's so it doesn´t matter. Players loaned? Every club does it so why is it different from us?People see it as they want with their biased opinion so do you really think all the "polémica" will stop? As long as there is rivalry something like that will always exist or it will be created.

And i am not saying our supporters are not different you know portuguese like their clubs more than the football itself so this also happens with portistas.

And it is obvious where the media aliances lie with, they do not treat all in fairness. We are guilty just because an ex wrote a book, Hell i think i will write a book on someone i don´t like since now i can do that and it will count as evidence. That is plain ridiculous. We all know they want a scape goat and the only one that will apease the "general opinion" is Pinto da Costa or Porto.

Protheus. You know that Porto are not being thought guilty just because of Carolina Salgados book, all evidence before her book wasn't sufficient, but with her words, as a witness, added to the phone taps makes sufficient to bring this case against Boavista and Porto.
As I say, personally, I don't think the clubs should be punished. But, I hope any individuals are severely punished.

If Pinto da Costa is found guilty, do you think he should escape punishment?

Referees will always make mistakes, we have to accept that. What no reasonable football fan should accept is the curruption of referees.

If you were refering to the suspension of Paulinho while João Pinto was out, the violence was deliberate for all to see, and a comparison with the tackle of Katsouranis on Anderson is not possible, simply because it's only an opinion if he wanted to hurt him, we can think it a deliberate foul, but the was no evidence to say it was.

Good on them I say.

My 6-a-side football side tries to bribe the ref every Thursday before the game with a mars bar and a free ride to the train station after the game. It usually works too- we are top of the league.

to bribery

EMP wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

Protheus wrote:
That has been going on for many years but now they finnally manage to take it to the courts with a book written by an old mistress of the Porto president.

Ah, that old chestnut : I remember reading about it.

....must indeed be dragging on for ages, because it was quite a while ago I read about it.

So now the club has to defend itself against hearsay ? Good luck : that's almost impossible to do

And when I pointed out that Mrs Fascistopoulous - the widow of the former Greek dictator - said her deceased husband said he helped fix the UEFA Cup for Panathinaikos in the 70s, about thirty+ years later, well after his death, that wasn't hearsay, how? Even more unlikely as the Colonels had links to fierce local rivals Olympiacos. It might be true, but that quality of evidence should not be enough to charge a cat let alone swing it.

Oh wait : *that* was the story I thought I read before...I can't keep up with all these lose accusations.

Bonuspoints for the use of "Mrs Fascistopoulous" though

Maybe someone can confirm this one : I read once that in Greece (30 years or more ago) two teams were joined leaders with just one match to go. Both teams, knowing goal difference would be the decider, really went for it : one won with 23-0 the other with 27-0 (or something along such ridiculous lines)....

....after investigations both were disqualified for bribing the oposition and number three won the title....

Sounds like an urban legend, but would be cool if it were true...

Same thing, the book and her words. As for the phone calls they are not conclusive as they are too ambiguous but of course each one understands what they want. If i say something ambiguous another may say that i am saying something i am not saying.
I think the whole case is built on supositions and a need to show some work being done, personal promotion for the lawers/judges/MP/personalities envolved and a big need to convict Porto somehow as to justify failures and give a little joy to the Porto haters.

As for the corruption of course i am against it but the fact is there are no credible proofs just words from a Pinto da Costa hater(s) and a book written for revenge purposes...that is not facts that is just a made up case.

Amongst others it was Paulinho but not only that one, that law was used 2 times in all portuguese football history....both against Porto. I take it in all the other years all clubs and players were saints and angels.
And that is a somehow biased view. Karagunis broke Andersson leg, he was out for at least 6 months, it was a clear foul thus the greek shouldn´t play for that period. But i defend that law for cases like that both to my club but also for the others. The difference is that the law is only used against the same club.

But those were just examples there are so many i saw in all my years as supporter both in favor or against Porto and other clubs. The point i was making was that all 3 get this kind of situation and to select the ones one like in a way to shape opinions it just lame.

If i was a small club supporter then i would have every single reasont to feel agravated towards all big 3.

Axeslammer wrote:

EMP wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

Protheus wrote:
That has been going on for many years but now they finnally manage to take it to the courts with a book written by an old mistress of the Porto president.

Ah, that old chestnut : I remember reading about it.

....must indeed be dragging on for ages, because it was quite a while ago I read about it.

So now the club has to defend itself against hearsay ? Good luck : that's almost impossible to do

And when I pointed out that Mrs Fascistopoulous - the widow of the former Greek dictator - said her deceased husband said he helped fix the UEFA Cup for Panathinaikos in the 70s, about thirty+ years later, well after his death, that wasn't hearsay, how? Even more unlikely as the Colonels had links to fierce local rivals Olympiacos. It might be true, but that quality of evidence should not be enough to charge a cat let alone swing it.

Oh wait : *that* was the story I thought I read before...I can't keep up with all these lose accusations.

Bonuspoints for the use of "Mrs Fascistopoulous" though

Maybe someone can confirm this one : I read once that in Greece (30 years or more ago) two teams were joined leaders with just one match to go. Both teams, knowing goal difference would be the decider, really went for it : one won with 23-0 the other with 27-0 (or something along such ridiculous lines)....

....after investigations both were disqualified for bribing the oposition and number three won the title....

Sounds like an urban legend, but would be cool if it were true...

Don't know if that is true, but I can definitely confirm an even worse one is true, but not in Greece. Last season Ghanaian club FC Nania and a rival knew that goal-difference would be crucial regarding promotion to top league. Nania won 33-0 and their rivals won 29-0. These matches occurred on the same day. Nania scored an astonishing 29 goals in the second half, almost a goal every one and a half minutes. There was an investigation, followed by prosecutions and bannings. Owner of Nania Abedi Pele was banned at first but won an appeal. Both clubs were not promoted.

For the last couple of seasons a small club in Milan that wear blue and black striped shirts have been paying off referees. This mickey mouse club with mickey mouse players must be punished! I propose a demotion to a lower league and Materazzi/Chivu having to spend a night with Tweedle.

The Balkan Maradona wrote:For the last couple of seasons a small club in Milan that wear blue and black striped shirts have been paying off referees. This mickey mouse club with mickey mouse players must be punished! I propose a demotion to a lower league and Materazzi/Chivu having to spend a night with Tweedle. :[/cheers:

I believe that is banned under the European Convention of Human Rights which prohibits cruel and unusual punishment.

Anybody remember this? It is from Wikipedia on match fixing. Nowhere near as bad as the Germany Austria disgrace, but does this Italy Mexico incident count as match-fixing? I think it is pushing it to count it. Don't remember del Piero's goal, but was there any suggestion that Mexico let him score? Really don't remember the match so hopefully others can.

Match fixing does not necessarily involve deliberately losing a match. Occasionally, teams have been accused of deliberately playing to a draw (or a fixed score) where this ensures some mutual benefit (e.g. both teams advancing to the next stage of a competition.) For example, in the 1982 FIFA World Cup, West Germany played Austria in the last match of group B. A West German victory by 1 or 2 goals would result in both teams advancing; any less and Germany was out; any more and Austria was out (and replaced by Algeria, who had just beaten West Germany). West Germany attacked hard and scored after 10 minutes. Afterwards, the players then preceded to just kick the ball around aimlessly for the remainder of the match. Algerian supporters were so angered that they waved banknotes at the players, while a German fan burned his German flag in disgust. As a result, FIFA changed its tournament scheduling for subsequent World Cups so that the final pair of matches in each four team group are played simultaneously.

A similar incident occurred during the Italy-Mexico match in the 2002 World Cup group stages, Ecuador were beating Croatia when, in the 85' minute, Alessandro Del Piero scored an equalizer against Mexico, a draw was enough for both teams to qualify and the two teams passed the rest of the match passing the ball amongst themselves.

EMP wrote:
A similar incident occurred during the Italy-Mexico match in the 2002 World Cup group stages, Ecuador were beating Croatia when, in the 85' minute, Alessandro Del Piero scored an equalizer against Mexico, a draw was enough for both teams to qualify and the two teams passed the rest of the match passing the ball amongst themselves.

This kind of thing happens quite often though, the only reason why draws should be abolished.

I can remember PSV needing a point to win the league and us needing a point to avoid relegation on the final matchday : great match, a really surprising 0-0

You don't even have to make a deal : mutual interest will ensure that no one will take any risk, there's no incentive to do so...

@ Axe: What do you think of that Ghanaian one. 62 goals in two matches on the same day!

EMP wrote:@ Axe: What do you think of that Ghanaian one. 62 goals in two matches on the same day!

Has to be foul play : relegate all four teams involved

Johninho wrote:I think that the real problem is that Portistas tend to think it's against Porto. My own personal opinion is that FCPorto, as much as Sporting and Benfica is a victim of curruption. I disagree 100% in any club being punished when the aleged criminal is the president or anyone else within the running of the team.
I also think it's a shame when Portistas don't speak out against corruption. I would want any person found guilty of this type of corruption banned from office, and indeed banned from entering any football stadium.
If they can prove that Pinto da Costa is involved in this corruption I would think all good football fans, regardless of their allegiance, would want him out of football. And the same should be said for the dirigents of SLB and SCP.

I'd go with that. I'm not in favour of cheating within football in any case... I wouldn't be happy to find out Sporting has been setting things up behind the scenes to get an advantage on other clubs...

I don't have a problem lossing to better clubs, it's feeling that we're not on a level playing field that I don't like.

Protheus wrote:Oh i am not playing the victim part. The truth is that all, and yes i mean all the 3 bigs get the ref decisions more favorably than the other clubs and that is a fact no need to hide the head in the sand. Now you talk about hype situation that happen a lot between rivary clubs but that is also a biased point of view of one of the parts too. I have seen tons of ref decisions in all the years i have been watching footbal but the thing is many supporters and media have a "selective memory" and only reffer, and like you did too, Porto gossip. So i take it all are saints except for us. I see a lot of gossips about us that you take it as proven and on the other hand the rest are all justified situation... get real. This is about as "clubite"biased as it gets. All see the things the way they want. The fact is we were better in the 90's 00's, like Sporting were better in the 40's 50's, like Benfica were better in the 60' 70' and so on. When opposition supporters do not win they talk about refs or anything outside the games to justify their failures. Since we start to win they created an idea about us buyng everyone as this can justify their failures. It is funny how they are never incompetent, it is always about deciding outside the games

Remember the 17 penalties season for example? The "away" games in the middle of the season? The sumarissímos being used when a Porto player is the target? Players suspended while the others are injured while others break the legs and injured our players and the decision is not the same? Phone calls between two presidents about a referee for a cup game...oh wait it was not Porto's so it doesn´t matter. Players loaned? Every club does it so why is it different from us?People see it as they want with their biased opinion so do you really think all the "polémica" will stop? As long as there is rivalry something like that will always exist or it will be created.

And i am not saying our supporters are not different you know portuguese like their clubs more than the football itself so this also happens with portistas.

And it is obvious where the media aliances lie with, they do not treat all in fairness. We are guilty just because an ex wrote a book, Hell i think i will write a book on someone i don´t like since now i can do that and it will count as evidence. That is plain ridiculous. We all know they want a scape goat and the only one that will apease the "general opinion" is Pinto da Costa or Porto.

Of course things go against you as well, and yes there are situations in which you've been victimised as a club.. but that doesn't mean things don't go your way as well. I did mention the situation with presidents speaking about refs on here before.. and the simple truth is that Sporting simply hasn't been mentioned as of yet, as far as I know, in any type of match fixing scandle. The day we are you guys can point your fingres at me... that's fine.

Btw, the thing with the 'injured' loaned players doesn't happen at everyone.. if you've noticed our loaned players always play against us... as the league expects.

I'll obviously agree with you in that the big three tend to get the benefit of the doubt in camparison with the little clubs.

Just don't send me Paulo Paraty anymore and I'll feel better about our footabll... the fucking guy is a joke of a man.

Setanta Sports News has just reported that the President of Porto is to face a civil trial for alleged bribery. Is this true?

It could be, there is a case against him, and a seperate one against Porto.