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    Calcio Debate: Italy Need A Trequartista – Time To Bring Bac

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    Post by Super Progress Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:25 pm

    Calcio Debate: Italy Need A Trequartista – Time To Bring Back Francesco Totti?
    Marcello Lippi’s record-breaking run came to an end last night as Italy were defeated 2-0 by Brazil in London. Carlo Garganese analyses the match, and argues that the Azzurri are in dire need of a creative forward such as the Roma captain…

    Eagle-eyed readers of my Calcio Debate column will remember how, when Marcello Lippi returned to the Italy bench after Euro 2008, I declared my opposition to a possible national team re-call for Francesco Totti. Eight or so months down the line, and the evolution of this current Lippi outfit has made me rethink this assessment.

    The Azzurri began their prestigious friendly against Brazil last night with a 4-3-3 system, and their first half display, barring the opening 10 minutes, was not pretty to watch. The Selecao dominated possession, controlled the tempo, outnumbered La Nazionale in midfield, suffocated all supply to the wide attackers, waited, delayed and then struck with two killer Italian-like sucker-punches.

    I have argued this point so many times, but here goes again: Italy cannot play with the 4-3-3 formation.

    It is a system they are neither comfortable with, nor have the personnel for. Classically, Italy play a ‘slow, slow, fast’ game – 4-3-3 is all about lightning-paced attacks at a high tempo, something that is just not in the Italian make-up. Furthermore, you need top class widemen, a la Arjen Robben and Damien Duff at Chelsea, to make the system work. Antonio Di Natale is inconsistent, while Simone Pepe is way off international standard at the moment. The 25-year-old cannot even make the Udinese starting XI, so how he could be expected to star against Brazil is perplexing.

    A three-man midfield leaves Andrea Pirlo hopelessly exposed defensively, especially when he has Riccardo Montolivo alongside him. The Fiorentina man was again a major disappointment. The 24-year-old is too weak on the ball, currently lacks the required heart and mental strength, and there are a question marks over whether he has it in him to flourish at international level. Sampdoria's Angelo Palombo is surely a better option for now.

    As is the case for most national teams, this is a dark period in the production of Italian defenders. Lippi does not have many quality options to choose from and, for this reason, Italy must be compact and defend as a team-unit. A four man midfield protects the backline, and allows for Italy’s tactical superiority to pay dividends.

    In the second half last night, Lippi scrapped the 4-3-3 at half time, and reverted to a 4-3-1-2 of sorts, with Mauro Camoranesi roaming on the right and in behind fellow substitutes Luca Toni and Giuseppe Rossi. Immediately Italy were at home. They were now playing a formation familiar to them, and there was balance all over the pitch.

    Still though, there was a distinct lack of creative spark in the team in the area in front of Pirlo, and behind the frontline. To put it in simple terms, the Azzurri need a trequartista or, at the very least, a creative second striker.

    So who could fill this role?

    Antonio Cassano is the obvious answer. 'Fantantonio' would provide the skill and imagination that Italy require but, unfortunately, Lippi has no intention of calling up a player who he believes will destroy his ‘team is greater than the individual’ philosophy. Fabrizio Miccoli, who is having a brilliant season, is another option. However, cynics will say that there is little chance of the Palermo man playing under Lippi again after he testified against Luciano Moggi in court.

    Putting aside Alessandro Del Piero who, if and when he returns, will probably be more of an impact substitute, this leaves just one realistic possibility: Francesco Totti. As mentioned earlier, I was originally against the idea of an Er Pupone comeback, but the lack of alternatives means that Italy would improve markedly in quality with the Roma symbol in their team. Totti will be almost 34 come South Africa, and his recurrent injuries are also a concern, but, Italy would surely have a greater chance of retaining the World Cup with Totti pulling the strings than Simone Pepe hogging the wings.

    Having said all this, Italy’s performance last night was not as bad as some have made out. The game would have been very different had Fabio Grosso’s brilliant early goal not been incorrectly ruled offside. Brazil scored twice but, although they perhaps took their foot off the gas after Robinho’s second, Gianluigi Buffon did not make a single noteworthy save all night. In the second half, Luca Toni had a goal disallowed, missed one sitter and two other decent chances, while Julio Cesar also saved excellently from Fabio Grosso’s free kick.

    So, one could argue that Italy did not enjoy the best of luck on the night. Howard Webb again proved to be incapable of refereeing at this level of football, as did at least one of his assistants. It is quite amusing how, despite the huge amount of money that was invested into this prestigious friendly, the organisers decided to take the cheap option of appointing English referees, just because they were local-based. It is like spending €5000 on a brand new, flashy, Giorgio Armani suit, and then wearing some tatty, old, hole-ridden shoes to go with it. Where is the logic?

    Brazil and Italy meet again in June in the Confederations Cup, and it will be interesting to see what changes Marcello Lippi makes before then. With his unbeaten run now over, the World Cup winner may be more willing now to try out some fresh talent, such as Atalanta’s Sergio Floccari. Whatever Lippi does though, he must ditch the 4-3-3 formation, and bring in a trequartista or creative second striker.

    What was your assessment of Italy’s performance against Brazil last night? Should the 4-3-3 formation be scrapped? Do Italy need a trequartista or classical second striker? Should Francesco Totti be brought back to the Azzurri? Goal.com wants to know what YOU think…

    Carlo Garganese

    Couldn't agree more that Italy should scrap the 4-3-3 which isn't particular creative and has consistently shown not to work against big teams and that is exactly the point. Italy with this much quality will alway qualify and you don't really win the big cups getting results against small teams.
    Cassano has to be tried and he wouldn't even have to use him behind two strikers. Totti would be the obvious solution and if he can keep form untill the world cup then he has to be picked.
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:42 pm

    I can't see Totti coming back. Cassano is the obvious pick but i wouldn't put him in the trequartista position (put Aquilani or Montolivo there) with Cassano playing as a second striker and then Gilardino upfront.
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    Post by Allez les rouges Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:25 pm

    What a great piece. I particularly enjoyed the Howard Webb remarks.

    I too couldn't help thinking that Italy were crying out for Cassano. Surely, at least on the strength of last night, they're not so strong that they can afford to be without both him and Totti... I was also hopelessly confused by the decision to sub de Rossi rather than the pretty dismal Pirlo.
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:38 pm

    I think De Rossi picked up an injury.
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    Post by bluenine Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:13 pm

    IMO all these calls for a Trequartista are largely a knee jerk reaction to the poor performance. The author himself admits that he was against Totti making a comeback just last year.... so just one defeat changed his fickle mind, did it??

    Lets face it, Italy lost yesterday coz of a poor starting team selection, and bad defending (something that plauges Italy in friendlies). You just have to look at Italy's starting XI to know what went wrong...

    Buffon
    Zambrotta-Legrottaglie-Cannavaro-Grosso
    De Rossi - Pirlo - Montolivo
    Pepe - Gilardino - Di Natale

    Thats just all wrong. Legrottaglie just isn't Azzurri class. And apart from De Rossi, the rest of midfield and attack lack physical presence... that just silly.

    433 can work for Italy, but you need the right players for it. For example, Gila is not the right CF for it, but Toni/Iaquinta/Floccari are. Secondly, you gotta pick the players in form. Pepe and Pirlo are not currently in good form.

    If I were to pick an Italy playing 433 against Brasil, I would have gone for (assuming all are fit):

    Buffon
    Zambrotta - Chiellini* - Cannavaro - Grosso
    De Rossi - D'Agostino - Brighi
    Camoranesi - Floccari - Del Piero


    *I know he was injured, but jus giving an example

    That team, tho less experienced, would have had a much better display than what Lippi put up... these players are in form, and are more suitable for the 433 - more balanced.

    Infact, the following second XI would have done better than what lippi put up:

    Amelia
    Maggio - Gamberini - Santacroce - Cassani
    Doni - Donadel - Aquilani
    Rossi - Toni - Rosina


    Cassano and Miccoli are in great form, but they will not suit a 433,and hence not solve anything. And its not the 433 that lost Italy the game, it was the personnel who did not fit their roles as a whole... Case in point, compare Italy's second haldf performance with the first... in the second half, Italy had the right people upfront for the 433 (Camoranesi-Toni-Rossi).
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:45 pm

    IMO we shouldn't be using 4-3-3. A 4-4-2 diamond would be much better, and more suited to our strengths.

    Something like this:

    Cassano Gilardino
    Aquilani/Montolivo
    De Rossi-----Gattuso
    Pirlo
    Zambrotta Chiellini Cannavaro Maggio
    Buffon
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:50 pm

    Toni needs to go now.

    He caused loads of bother in Serie A/Bundesliga where the defenders are less physical than other leagues and woeful respectively but I've never seen the man strike a ball cleanly in his entire career.

    Shit personality too - you can tell that from his mannerisms/body language on the pitch that he is not someone you'd want when the chips are down.

    Big Vince is in a different class to Toni.

    Great pace, muscle, work rate and a very clean striker of a ball.

    Twice the player for me and I don't care one bit for Toni's stats in regular season games.

    Gilardino is not big/strong or quick enough for the modern game but is one of the best penalty box strikers in the game - if he played between '85-00' he would hold every goal scoring record available.

    Very confident too - he would be a more than adequate 2nd choice.
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:58 pm

    I agree with Pierre. Since Vieri, we havn't had anyone who can lead our attack. Neither Toni nor Gilardino have been entirely convincing, but atm i'd go with Gilardino.

    Iaquinta needs to move to another club where he will play more regularly. He has every chance though since Lippi rates him very highly.

    There have been other calls for Floccari. He might end up being a one season wonder though like Bianchi, Borriello etc. Hopefully Acquafresca goes back to Inter and gets some playing time. He could be good.
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    Post by bluenine Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:12 pm

    BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
    There have been other calls for Floccari. He might end up being a one season wonder though like Bianchi, Borriello etc. Hopefully Acquafresca goes back to Inter and gets some playing time. He could be good.

    I think Floccari is a different metal as compared to Bianchi/Borriello. He does so much more on the pitch - not just a goalscorer like the others. That is what makes him a much surer bet. Floccari is very suited to be the CF in a 433/451 formation, and he is in great form. IMO he should be given a shot.

    Acquafresca is too young ATM. If he comes to Inter now, I fear he may get lost and get little playing time. He is developing well at Cagliari, I would keep him there for another season.
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    Post by Super Progress Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:25 pm

    BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:I can't see Totti coming back. Cassano is the obvious pick but i wouldn't put him in the trequartista position (put Aquilani or Montolivo there) with Cassano playing as a second striker and then Gilardino upfront.
    Don't think Cassano should be played behind 2 strikers either but more as a second striker who comes down alot a la Rooney. This would allow for somebody like Perrota/Aquilani/Montolivo to barge into the box. If there is one formation I think of when I see Italy it is the 4-3-1-2 as Milan plays it.
    If I could choose Italy would play more like:

    ------------------Buffon---------------

    Zambrotta---Nesta---Chiellini--Grosso/Pasqual

    ----------De Rossi----Pirlo----Brighi---------

    -------------Aquilani/Perrota/Montolivo-----

    ------------Cassano------Iaquinta----------

    Giladino disapears too much out of games imo and Toni is too static so Iaquinta is the only choice as I see it unless Balotelli suddenly explodes into the scene. Cassano is very good finisher, especially when you consider that he is more of a creative striker and goals could be shared more.

    Blunine
    I wouldn't say the writer is fickle because I believe he has talked about the flaws in the 4-3-3 which I mentioned aswell. He is just saying that Italy needs somebody to give creativity upfront which is true and since Totti is the only one really with the quality to play the position....

    The truth is that since Donadoni has played it, it has only worked well against the small teams. So unless Italy wants to qualify with a great margin, not needed, then it doesn't really do much for Italy. Italy were without creativity in the Euros because of this formation.


    Last edited by Super Madrid on Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:29 pm

    @ SM

    see the lineup i posted - it is not too different to yours in shape, and the midfield is pretty much the same except i have Gattuso instead of Brighi. I also have Cassano as a 2nd striker just like you. I agree that if he plays in midfield, then he is playing too far away from goal.
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    Post by Super Progress Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:36 pm

    BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:@ SM

    see the lineup i posted - it is not too different to yours in shape, and the midfield is pretty much the same except i have Gattuso instead of Brighi. I also have Cassano as a 2nd striker just like you. I agree that if he plays in midfield, then he is playing too far away from goal.
    That doesn't have to be a bad thing because I have seen him do that for Doria but defensively I can't see it work. Either way it is very much the same formation as you posted. The players used can always change.
    Cannavaro isn't his old self anymore and most certainly not the rock he was for Italy in 06 so better to move on. Problem is there seems to be a hole in the defensive area. I forgot to say Chiellini instead of Santacroce but overall Italy should play more to its strength which 4-3-1-2 does.

    Gattuso this season before he got injuried was at the best level I have ever seen him in so if he is like that aswell when he gets back and in time for the world cup then he is sure pick but somehow I doubt it.
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    Post by Jaime Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:40 pm

    I wonder too if there isn't a place for Maresca in midfield. He's been great for Sevilla over the last several seasons. He can do the dirty work but can play a bit of football as well. Would seem to fit nicely into a 4-3-3 for Italy.
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    Post by Super Progress Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:54 pm

    Jaime wrote:I wonder too if there isn't a place for Maresca in midfield. He's been great for Sevilla over the last several seasons. He can do the dirty work but can play a bit of football as well. Would seem to fit nicely into a 4-3-3 for Italy.
    He is somebody who could play a 3 man midfield with De Rossi-Pirlo without it being too lightweight either. Would like to see him tried there since the more creative Aquilani/Montolivo should perhaps be tried further ahead.
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    Post by Calidad Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:55 pm

    Cigarini looks a very good player and could replace Pirlo if he continues to underperform. Can't believe someone like Quagliarella has got so few opportunities as well, whilst Camaronesi continues to play despite being quite shite. Pepe was a complete waste of a jersey too yesterday.
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    Post by Jaime Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:59 pm

    Super Madrid wrote:
    Jaime wrote:I wonder too if there isn't a place for Maresca in midfield. He's been great for Sevilla over the last several seasons. He can do the dirty work but can play a bit of football as well. Would seem to fit nicely into a 4-3-3 for Italy.
    He is somebody who could play a 3 man midfield with De Rossi-Pirlo without it being too lightweight either. Would like to see him tried there since the more creative Aquilani/Montolivo should perhaps be tried further ahead.

    That's what I was thinking...


    ---De Rossi----Pirlo----Maresca

    -------------Montolivo

    -------Gilardino---Iaquinta


    For example.
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    Post by Super Progress Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:04 pm

    Calidad wrote:Cigarini looks a very good player and could replace Pirlo if he continues to underperform. Can't believe someone like Quagliarella has got so few opportunities as well, whilst Camaronesi continues to play despite being quite shite. Pepe was a complete waste of a jersey too yesterday.
    Haven't seen him yet but heard alot about him. If Italy manage to find a new Pirlo so quickly they are lucky as hell. Also agree that Cameronesi shouldn't be near the team but overall Lippi seems to be continuing Donadonis tactics and player choice.

    Jaime
    Looks a good midfield allthough the trequartista role could be given to Perrota or Aquilani but no biggie there. The point is really to form the midfield so that Pirlo can do what he does best without having to be overrun. Maresca would be able to help both defensive and offensively so in a way a better choice then Gattuso or Ambrosini.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:32 pm

    De Rossi is so unremarkable its not true.

    Perrotta is great with Totti but I would never play the former without the latter.

    Aquilani is a fantastic player and Pirlo has done little since his great performance at WC '06.
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:48 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:De Rossi is so unremarkable its not true.

    Perrotta is great with Totti but I would never play the former without the latter.

    Aquilani is a fantastic player and Pirlo has done little since his great performance at WC '06.

    As an attacking force, Perrotta is nothing without Totti. He can still be a decent defensive midfielder though. I would not put him in the trequartista position though.

    I think you can fit Aquilani and Pirlo into the same team. Pirlo is in gorrible form but he tends to come good in international tournaments it seems.
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    Post by EM Seleção e Selecção Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:42 am

    Luca Toni is poor footballer I thought I was the only person who thought this.
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    Post by bluenine Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:22 am

    I don't think switching the formation will change anything. The problem yesterday and in Euro 2008 was not the formation, it was the players deployed. Italy have creative players who can fit well even in a 433. Rosina, Foggia, Del Piero, Rossi - just to name a few.

    But the problem is the players Lippi (and before him Donadoni) is deploying. Even if he changes the formation, it will be more of the same thing. Infact, Lippi is far more flexible a coach when it comes to formations than Donadoni was. As he showed in WC06, Lippi will probably change formations depending on the opposition.

    So what I am more worried about is squad/team selection. The squad needs to get a bit younger, and more in tune with the form of the players. Until those changes happen, nothing will change. So far the only positive move Lippi has done in this direction is the inclusion of Montolivo and Rossi. We need more steps in that direction - Rosina, Foggia, Gamberini, Santacroce, Brighi, Floccari, etc - players like these need to be tried out when they are in form. How successfully Lippi does that will determine the fate of Italy in WC10, not the formation. I remember that in his previous 2 year stint, Lippi had tried out 71 players before selecting his WC squad. He needs to do something like that again, not go by his previous selection.
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    Post by abundance Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:13 am

    The quoted article is spot on, proper 433 is not a viable option for Italy.
    We haven't had decent wingers since the time Donadoni was on the pitch, almost no serie A team plays real 4-3-3, we can't afford a 3 man midfield with Pirlo in the middle, especially given the current condition of our back line.

    It's not easy for Lippi, as we currently have the poorest international level roster since I can remember.

    Anyway, at least we have a decent pool of second strikers and more or less creative midfielders, we should try to work em out in some diamond / christmas tree / 4231 / 4411 setup.
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    Post by bluenine Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:21 pm

    abundance wrote:The quoted article is spot on, proper 433 is not a viable option for Italy.
    We haven't had decent wingers since the time Donadoni was on the pitch, almost no serie A team plays real 4-3-3, we can't afford a 3 man midfield with Pirlo in the middle, especially given the current condition of our back line.

    It's not easy for Lippi, as we currently have the poorest international level roster since I can remember.

    Anyway, at least we have a decent pool of second strikers and more or less creative midfielders, we should try to work em out in some diamond / christmas tree / 4231 / 4411 setup.

    Italy's 433 is anyways a variant between 451 and 442/4411, so thats why I disagree with you.

    In the front 3, Lippi's prefered option seems to be Camoranesi-Toni-Di Natale/Rossi. Its never Iaquinta-Toni-Di Natale, which would be more like a 433. My guess is that by the time of the world cup, assuming the current set of players keep their form, Lippi's starting XI in his 433 will be:

    Buffon
    Zambrotta - Chiellini - Cannavaro - Grosso
    Gattuso - Pirlo - De Rossi
    Camoranesi -----------------------------Del Piero
    Toni


    IMO, thats a 4411 and not a traditional 433, and hence is quite suitable for Italy. There is enough muscle in the midfield to protect Pirlo.

    Like I said before, Lippi made a huge tactical error in the first half against Brasil. You just cannot have Gila-Pepe-Di Natale-Montolivo-Pirlo in the same team - its too "lightweight". It is not the formation which let Italy down, it was the wrong combination of players. In the second half, Italy picked up their game, and that was coz of the changes as those 5 players became Toni-Camoranesi-Rossi-Perrotta-Pirlo. Which added more "muscle".
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    Post by Allez les rouges Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:55 pm

    I don't mean to be disrespectful, because I have a lot of time for Italy, but that team is a joke, right? It will be approximately seven thousand years old by the World Cup. Two players the right side of 30 and the rest 33 if not 37?! Surely there is no prospect of that either happening or of anyone seriously expecting such a team to successfully defend the World Cup?
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:28 pm

    bluenine wrote:
    abundance wrote:The quoted article is spot on, proper 433 is not a viable option for Italy.
    We haven't had decent wingers since the time Donadoni was on the pitch, almost no serie A team plays real 4-3-3, we can't afford a 3 man midfield with Pirlo in the middle, especially given the current condition of our back line.

    It's not easy for Lippi, as we currently have the poorest international level roster since I can remember.

    Anyway, at least we have a decent pool of second strikers and more or less creative midfielders, we should try to work em out in some diamond / christmas tree / 4231 / 4411 setup.

    Italy's 433 is anyways a variant between 451 and 442/4411, so thats why I disagree with you.

    In the front 3, Lippi's prefered option seems to be Camoranesi-Toni-Di Natale/Rossi. Its never Iaquinta-Toni-Di Natale, which would be more like a 433. My guess is that by the time of the world cup, assuming the current set of players keep their form, Lippi's starting XI in his 433 will be:

    Buffon
    Zambrotta - Chiellini - Cannavaro - Grosso
    Gattuso - Pirlo - De Rossi
    Camoranesi -----------------------------Del Piero
    Toni


    IMO, thats a 4411 and not a traditional 433, and hence is quite suitable for Italy. There is enough muscle in the midfield to protect Pirlo.

    Like I said before, Lippi made a huge tactical error in the first half against Brasil. You just cannot have Gila-Pepe-Di Natale-Montolivo-Pirlo in the same team - its too "lightweight". It is not the formation which let Italy down, it was the wrong combination of players. In the second half, Italy picked up their game, and that was coz of the changes as those 5 players became Toni-Camoranesi-Rossi-Perrotta-Pirlo. Which added more "muscle".

    I'd go with what abundance said. 4-3-3 is not suited to Italy. We've seen time and time again that Del Piero cannot play on the wing, least of all at his current age. Camoranesi has never produced for us and he's going to be 33 in 2010 - it's really a sad state of affairs if we still have to rely on someone like him. There are other wingers like Di Natale, Foggia, Marchionni, Rosina etc. who are good but they will never be world class.

    We should try and focus on our strengths. If we play a diamond midfield we can fit in alot of our talented midfielders. De Rossi, Pirlo, Gattuso, Brighi, Perrotta, Aquilani, Montolivo are the main options. Upfront we play a second striker like Rossi or Cassano with one of Gilardino, Toni or Iaquinta. In defence, really Cannavaro should be gone and Gameberni or Santacroce should come in.
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    Post by Super Progress Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:59 pm

    BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
    bluenine wrote:
    abundance wrote:The quoted article is spot on, proper 433 is not a viable option for Italy.
    We haven't had decent wingers since the time Donadoni was on the pitch, almost no serie A team plays real 4-3-3, we can't afford a 3 man midfield with Pirlo in the middle, especially given the current condition of our back line.

    It's not easy for Lippi, as we currently have the poorest international level roster since I can remember.

    Anyway, at least we have a decent pool of second strikers and more or less creative midfielders, we should try to work em out in some diamond / christmas tree / 4231 / 4411 setup.

    Italy's 433 is anyways a variant between 451 and 442/4411, so thats why I disagree with you.

    In the front 3, Lippi's prefered option seems to be Camoranesi-Toni-Di Natale/Rossi. Its never Iaquinta-Toni-Di Natale, which would be more like a 433. My guess is that by the time of the world cup, assuming the current set of players keep their form, Lippi's starting XI in his 433 will be:

    Buffon
    Zambrotta - Chiellini - Cannavaro - Grosso
    Gattuso - Pirlo - De Rossi
    Camoranesi -----------------------------Del Piero
    Toni


    IMO, thats a 4411 and not a traditional 433, and hence is quite suitable for Italy. There is enough muscle in the midfield to protect Pirlo.

    Like I said before, Lippi made a huge tactical error in the first half against Brasil. You just cannot have Gila-Pepe-Di Natale-Montolivo-Pirlo in the same team - its too "lightweight". It is not the formation which let Italy down, it was the wrong combination of players. In the second half, Italy picked up their game, and that was coz of the changes as those 5 players became Toni-Camoranesi-Rossi-Perrotta-Pirlo. Which added more "muscle".

    I'd go with what abundance said. 4-3-3 is not suited to Italy. We've seen time and time again that Del Piero cannot play on the wing, least of all at his current age. Camoranesi has never produced for us and he's going to be 33 in 2010 - it's really a sad state of affairs if we still have to rely on someone like him. There are other wingers like Di Natale, Foggia, Marchionni, Rosina etc. who are good but they will never be world class.

    We should try and focus on our strengths. If we play a diamond midfield we can fit in alot of our talented midfielders. De Rossi, Pirlo, Gattuso, Brighi, Perrotta, Aquilani, Montolivo are the main options. Upfront we play a second striker like Rossi or Cassano with one of Gilardino, Toni or Iaquinta. In defence, really Cannavaro should be gone and Gameberni or Santacroce should come in.
    Completely agree with you allthough Chiellini could be used in defence aswell next to Nesta. The point is really which group of players are the strongest at the moment.
    When you have as strong central players as these:
    De Rossi
    Pirlo
    Gattuso
    Brighi
    Aquilani
    Montolivo
    Cassano
    Del Piero

    Then it should be the obvious choice for a more central tactic as you say Bobo. Also I would say it is the tactic that will create the best football.
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    Post by bluenine Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:00 pm

    Allez les rouges wrote:I don't mean to be disrespectful, because I have a lot of time for Italy, but that team is a joke, right? It will be approximately seven thousand years old by the World Cup. Two players the right side of 30 and the rest 33 if not 37?! Surely there is no prospect of that either happening or of anyone seriously expecting such a team to successfully defend the World Cup?

    I agree, completely - thats the point I am trying to make. I put down that team coz it looks like that is what Lippi will go with. And thb that might even work today, but will it work in the world cup? How will age effect these players by 2010? Does Lippi have back ups? If not, why isn't he finding them? There are many questions.... Thats where my critique is as well. Not the formation, but the fact that Lippi is not trying out new players on form. The point I am making against people calling for dropping the 433 is that Italy does not play 433. Lippi plays 451 or 4411 disguised as a 433. So its not the formation, its the players.

    If I were to form Italy for a game tomorrow, assuming all players are fit, I would start something like this:

    Buffon
    Motta - Chiellini - Gamberini - Zambrotta
    De Rossi - Gattuso
    Rossi - Aquilani - Rosina
    Floccari


    You can call that as a 433, or a 451 or a 4231 or a 4411. But the point is that the above players are in form, and they have the characteristics to make all these formations work, and they have a good mix of talent and experience.

    My key issue: Lippi tried 71 players in the 2 years before WC06, to finalise his squad. Why is he not doing that homework again??

    Players like Motta, Gamberini, Santacroce, Donadel, Rosina, Foggia, Floccari, etc should be given a chance to prove themselves for the Azzurri.... and this should happen before the world cup!!!

    This formation thing is rubbish. Lippi is too tactically aware to play a traditional 433. He varies with every game by changing the players in the formation. Look at his teams. They are not 433.

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