big 4 + hosts theory at risk

now, only 3 teams can honour this great theory: argentina, brazil and germany.

so, will it be broken?

Well England will take out two of them. Brazil of course will have to fight hard to save the theory of it's people!

Though some of these same people said Gattuso > Cristiano

So maybe it's best they don't bother

L r dd wrote:Well England will take out two of them. Brazil of course will have to fight hard to save the theory of it's people!

Though some of these same people said Gattuso > Cristiano

So maybe it's best they don't bother

I'll say it again: Gattuso > Cristiano.

It's difficult to compare players in different positions, but I'd rather have him in my team. And Rooney either, to tell the truth. And Terry (after he tried to head the ball on the ground, he became a hero to me). Well, the list is long.

If Argentina dont win it again, I have them as winners mind, are they still part of the top4?

Fey wrote:If Argentina dont win it again, I have them as winners mind, are they still part of the top4?

it depends on who win it and if they reach the semis or final. if germany win it with argentina in the semis, they are still top 4 (being almost relagated).

if new semi-big teams win it, like spain or england or holland, argentina will be relagated to the second group alongside the new winner and france, and we'll have a top-3 with italy, germany and brazil.

if brazil win it though, we'll have a top-1, with germany, italy and argentina forming a group of second rate big teams.

Italy are out
Host are effectively out; I don't think Ghana are contenders either

which leaves Brazil and Germany

(big THREE + host)

well

World Champs are usually STABLE and DOUR

Germany are NOT stable and dour though

my favourites are Brazil, Holland and Spain

so YES

it CAN be broken this time

Ä wrote:Italy are out
Host are effectively out; I don't think Ghana are contenders either

which leaves Brazil and Germany

(big THREE + host)

well

World Champs are usually STABLE and DOUR

Germany are NOT stable and dour though

my favourites are Brazil, Holland and Spain

so YES

it CAN be broken this time

otto, this thread is about big 4 + hosts. argentina are big. period.

and it obviously can be broken, but this is not the question.

the question is: will it be broken?

Ä wrote:Italy are out
Host are effectively out; I don't think Ghana are contenders either

which leaves Brazil and Germany

(big THREE + host)

well

World Champs are usually STABLE and DOUR

Germany are NOT stable and dour though

my favourites are Brazil, Holland and Spain

so YES

it CAN be broken this time

You dont think Argentine can win this? they are playing really well, I think Maradona finally found his team

It's pretty likely. Only one (at most) of Germany/Arg can reach the SF.

Brazil might have to get past Spain and Holland to get that far, which won't be easy, however shite most Euro teams have been.

So I say: YES. The RULES will be ripped up and forgotten

mongrel hawk wrote:

Ä wrote:Italy are out
Host are effectively out; I don't think Ghana are contenders either

which leaves Brazil and Germany

(big THREE + host)

well

World Champs are usually STABLE and DOUR

Germany are NOT stable and dour though

my favourites are Brazil, Holland and Spain

so YES

it CAN be broken this time

otto, this thread is about big 4 + hosts. argentina are big. period.

and it obviously can be broken, but this is not the question.

the question is: will it be broken?

Argentina may be BIG

but they are not part of the BIG THREE

look, todo

Brazil are now clear favourites

end of story

under NORMAL conditions I would be celebrating right now

Germany tend to have TWO countries they always lose against in tournaments

Italy and Italy

(well, in 2002 also Brazil, but one instance is not enough to constitute a pattern)

Italia , though , have our NUMBER

England and Argentina do NOT

in other words

under normal circumstances, Italia getting kicked out would open up our path to the FINAL

nowadays we have 11 ladyboys though (many of them refusing to sing the anthem)

so ANYTHING can happen

and NO

the RULE almost certainly will NOT get broken

meaning , that either Brazil or Germany will WIN

let's wait for a few more games to give a final prediction

as for Argentina

I don't care how many brilliant footballers they have

WITHOUT the Maradona factor they would not and could not win the title

whether he can steer them to the Cup as a COACH, remains to be seen

How does this theory explain away 1950?

Dwarf wrote:How does this theory explain away 1950?

They usually pretend it doesn't count because there wasn't an actual final that year

Germany weren't allowed to participate in 1950 - it's void.

Dwarf wrote:How does this theory explain away 1950?

uruguay were big 4 then.

How can this theory exist when the "big 4" is open to change?

mongrel hawk wrote:

Dwarf wrote:How does this theory explain away 1950?

uruguay were big 4 then.

The actual theory is that every world cup FINAL has been won by the big 4 or the hosts. I believe there was no world cup final in 1950.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:

Dwarf wrote:How does this theory explain away 1950?

uruguay were big 4 then.

The actual theory is that every world cup FINAL has been won by the big 4 or the hosts. I believe there was no world cup final in 1950.

there wasn't a proper final, but there was a final group playing a group final.

in 1950, according to pundits of the time (there's no proper footage), brazil had the best team in the world. brazil trashed one by one until they met uruguay. uruguay at the time was more or less like italy, germany or argentina today. one of the favourites, but not the favourite.

there was no big 4 at that time.

the big 4 theory was created after a series of many WCs (since 1954) won only by the big 4 + hosts (france and england only) since then.

the big 4 theory has survived for 56 years and 14 WCs. if it survives this WC, it will last for at least 60 years and 15 WCs.

of course it will be broken sooner or later, but the question is: will it be broken now, in south africa?

14 world cups is a piss poor sample size. If we took the last 14 years in English football we'd say only Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal ever win the title. But if you take the last 30 years, you'd see it won by Liverpool, Everton and others..

It's also nonsense to say the Big 4 theory has lasted 56 years, as Argentina couldn't possibly have been included until they won the bloody cup!

There's no question Brazil, Germany, Italy are historically the most
successful, but there's no need for some silly rule

debaser wrote:14 world cups is a piss poor sample size. If we took the last 14 years in English football we'd say only Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal ever win the title. But if you take the last 30 years, you'd see it won by Liverpool, Everton and others..

It's also nonsense to say the Big 4 theory has lasted 56 years, as Argentina couldn't possibly have been included until they won the bloody cup!

There's no question Brazil, Germany, Italy are historically the most
successful, but there's no need for some silly rule

Stop ruining people's fun with your logic and reality and being right.

debaser wrote:14 world cups is a piss poor sample size. If we took the last 14 years in English football we'd say only Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal ever win the title. But if you take the last 30 years, you'd see it won by Liverpool, Everton and others..

nonsense. if the last 14 EPL editions were played every 4 years, since 1954, I assure you much more than 4 teams would have won.

The World Cup champions will come out of the Brasil - Netherlands game, no doubt in my mind.

I tip Brasil to win this game so the theory wont be broken but if Brasil loses that match the theory is gone!

Is Argentina still part of the big 4 now they are out and GERMANY seems to win the WC? Not sure about Italy in the big 3 either, too often they go out in the first round.

IMO it should be a top TWO: Brazil and Germany

Then you get: Italy, Argentina, France

Then you get: England, Spain, Holland, Uruguay.

Fey wrote:Is Argentina still part of the big 4 now they are out and GERMANY seems to win the WC? Not sure about Italy in the big 3 either, too often they go out in the first round.

IMO it should be a top TWO: Brazil and Germany

Then you get: Italy, Argentina, France

Then you get: England, Spain, Holland, Uruguay.

This year is the first time Italy lost a game at the World Cup since 1986. If you consider that a game has only 90 min.

Fey wrote:Is Argentina still part of the big 4 now they are out and GERMANY seems to win the WC? .

EXCELLENT point, fey

truly EXCELLENT

and todo has a LOT of explaining to do

how he justifies Argentina being part of a "top 4" , he really has to explain

World Cup after World Cup after World Cup after World Cup...

they are amongst the favourites to win the title, according to "experts"

and yet NEVER even reach the SEMIS when Maradona is not on the pitch

NOT EVEN THE SEMIS

let alone the FINAL

let alone winning the Cup once in a while (without Maradona)

we need a COMPLETE reassessment of Argentina as a football POWER

and we need it NOW

France should be with England and co. Their record is far from impressive for much of history.

13 out of 19 cups they have either not qualified or gone out in the first round.

I'd say:

Brazil/Germany
Italy
Argentina/Uruguay
France/England/Holland
Spain/Portugal/Poland/Russia

Spain? Their WC record is horrible. Surely Sweden is more deserving?

Ä wrote:

Fey wrote:Is Argentina still part of the big 4 now they are out and GERMANY seems to win the WC? .

EXCELLENT point, fey

truly EXCELLENT

and todo has a LOT of explaining to do

how he justifies Argentina being part of a "top 4" , he really has to explain

World Cup after World Cup after World Cup after World Cup...

they are amongst the favourites to win the title, according to "experts"

and yet NEVER even reach the SEMIS when Maradona is not on the pitch

NOT EVEN THE SEMIS

let alone the FINAL

let alone winning the Cup once in a while (without Maradona)

we need a COMPLETE reassessment of Argentina as a football POWER

and we need it NOW

alright, you can relegate Argentina to a second group, but they are still the 4th powerhouse, unless Uruguay wins the Cup now.

i voted yes

debaser wrote:It's pretty likely. Only one (at most) of Germany/Arg can reach the SF.

Brazil might have to get past Spain and Holland to get that far, which won't be easy, however shite most Euro teams have been.

So I say: YES. The RULES will be ripped up and forgotten

I'm so happy this bullshit theory has been DESTROYED.

debaser wrote:

debaser wrote:It's pretty likely. Only one (at most) of Germany/Arg can reach the SF.

Brazil might have to get past Spain and Holland to get that far, which won't be easy, however shite most Euro teams have been.

So I say: YES. The RULES will be ripped up and forgotten

I'm so happy this bullshit theory has been DESTROYED.

It's such a theory, the more you talk about about it the more people believe in it without any sense....