The Return of Catenaccio!!

Brasil just won the Copa America in the best example of Catenaccio I have seen for a while. This selecao does not play jogo bonito, not even in bits and pieces here and there like its predecessors (1990-2002). We know that the last Brasil team to play the real jogo bonito was the ill-fated 1982 team that played beautiful footballl but were ousted by Pablito Rossi and the Italians in a legendary match.

Since then Brasil has slowly gravitated towards what you see today - yes, they have skilled players - but the team philosophy is no longer a series of pretty passes and dribbling runs a la Tostao or Zico, but powerful athletes who play almost catenaccio-like football. And this summer, the transformation is complete... the selecao have become catenaccio experts!!

The third goal in the final was a classic catenaccio score - Argentina was extended in attack, Brasil laid back and then struck quickly. The same kind of goals were scored by Brasil in 2002.

It was sad in some ways - the pretty passing game of Argentina was destroyed by a somewhat cynical (though skilled) Brasil team. The fact that Brasil commited *37* fouls tells you something. Messi wasn't really stopped by Brasil as he was by a couple of yellow-clothed walls he ran into. The first goal was really a brilliant shot - it's not easy to get the elevation to go far post with the shot Julio Baptista took, yet bring the ball down so it isn't in the twentieth row of the stands. This goal was a shock, but the own-goal by Ayala was the killer. I don't understand why Ayala cleared that ball - there - its a mistake in communication between him and the keeper. And that's unpardonable seeing as those two have played together on the national side for YEARS. The keeper was clearly about to get that cross when Ayala comes flying in like Underdog and deposits the ball in his own goal. Like I mentioned during the game, after this Copa performance, its obvious that Ayala's best is past him and he should be dropped from the argie squad. Or he should retire.

I wonder what kind of reaction this win is having in Brasil. Are people happy to be champions, or are they unhappy to see their team play the old Italian style catenaccio that they used to critisize so much... Will Dunga and his transformed selecao be allowed to continue in this path??

Personally, I'm left partly happy for Brasil, but somewhat sad for an Argentine squad that played some excellent and beautiful football. To say that this loss is hitting home hard in Buenos Aires is putting it lightly - this was supposed to be their Copa America.

But football is like that sometimes, just like life - it's not fair but it usually is interesting.

i think it is sad that brazil have turned to these tactics. i can understand partly why they would play this way in 94 since they hadnt won the WC for 24 years but after that they should have gone back to their traditions.i wouldnt say brazl were playing Catenaccio but they were very defensive and pragmatic.but i do wonder who is going to provide the joga bonito in the future. maybe spain or argentina but other then that i cant name many. germany have changed their style and i do enjoy it but im not sure it will work against the big teams since i think they lack those genius players.

So what is left , Italy already play that style and according to you Brazil has gone that way so where is the excitement , the buzz , so are we ready to see more Italy's in the furture.

most of the pundits, as I've said in another thread, are unhappy about it.

most of the people are happy. they want to win. but there's indeed a lot of people who think this was a mediocre team that were lucky to win.

that's far from my ideal Brazil. well, I posted my ideal Brazil in the Brazilian pundits thread.

anyway, who used to criticize the Italian catenaccio? I love it! and Gattuso is my favourite european player.

many people in Brazil admire the Italian style. Many people hate it.

in São Paulo, there are 3 million Italian descendants who also support Italy in world cups.

bluenine wrote:I wonder what kind of reaction this win is having in Brasil. Are people happy to be champions, or are they unhappy to see their team play the old Italian style catenaccio that they used to critisize so much... Will Dunga and his transformed selecao be allowed to continue in this path??

I think that the point is pretty simple. What happened in the Copa America final was similar to what happened in the last two intercontinental cups. São Paulo and Inter defeated Liverpool and Barça playing defensively. When Brazilians are technically inferior, they aren't ashamed of the label. They admit that they will have more chances if they play defensively and use the counter attack. If Brazil had Ronaldinho and Kaká they wouldn't be so pragmatic. Brazilian squad had only two skillful players on the midfield, but Diego and Anderson were clearly out of form.

The same way that Capello did not survive as Madrid coach with his negative tactics despite winning the league, there is not way that Dunga will survive as Brasilian coach if Brasil keep playing like that. In Brasil there's possibly a higher demand for entertainment than there is in Madrid, and Dunga will get crucified if he keeps this up. There's still 3 years until the next WC, so that's plenty of time for Dunga to get fired.

But the Copa America win will at least earn him a few months in charge to see how he does with Kaka and Dinho in the team.

He'll be our coach in 2010, unless he risks Brazil's place at the world cup during the qualifyings, wich I think won't happen.

Torrente wrote:The same way that Capello did not survive as Madrid coach with his negative tactics despite winning the league, there is not way that Dunga will survive as Brasilian coach if Brasil keep playing like that. In Brasil there's possibly a higher demand for entertainment than there is in Madrid, and Dunga will get crucified if he keeps this up. There's still 3 years until the next WC, so that's plenty of time for Dunga to get fired.

But the Copa America win will at least earn him a few months in charge to see how he does with Kaka and Dinho in the team.

Torrente wrote:The same way that Capello did not survive as Madrid coach with his negative tactics despite winning the league, there is not way that Dunga will survive as Brasilian coach if Brasil keep playing like that. In Brasil there's possibly a higher demand for entertainment than there is in Madrid, and Dunga will get crucified if he keeps this up. There's still 3 years until the next WC, so that's plenty of time for Dunga to get fired.

But the Copa America win will at least earn him a few months in charge to see how he does with Kaka and Dinho in the team.

well i used to think the comparison with brazil was spot on but it seems that in brazil its half and half with regards to the style of play which has had more then a touch of pragmatism since 94 while most madrid fans hates such a defensive and pragmatic style. and i must agree with todo that dunga is not going to get fired esp after winning Copa america.

While Brasil have gradually become more pragmatic over the years since 1982, its clearly not the end of Jogo Bonito! Argentina, who used to play catenaccio in the 90s, are now playing a much more attacking game... and they have the right resources to do that and succeed too.... And with Brasil, I suspect this is just temporary... while I don't think the 1982 Brasil version of Jogo Bonito will ever return (coz its not practical), the 1994 version of combining pragmatism with moments of flashy brilliance will prevail... very soon (when their stars return) they will revert to that form of play, as opposed to the style they played this Copa which was too defensive to be called catenaccio!!

Italy have now found the right balance between attack and defend, after a very defensive 20 years... Italy haven't played that improvised "verrou" style for over 4-5 years now, tho they do play pragmatic football when the situation demands it.

Dark Savante wrote:So what is left , Italy already play that style and according to you Brazil has gone that way so where is the excitement , the buzz , so are we ready to see more Italy's in the furture.

Bluenine I am not ridiculing Italy or Italy's style (specially being a German) but every nation got a style of play with Italy , the defensive to offensive style is their strength ,we get it with being disciplined and adding flair to it rather without it , England with their directness and tempo , Brazil with the flair etc etc I dont like a similar style prevailling so all countries would adopt it it would lessen the fun.

I can't say i'm a great fan of the Catenaccio style but against teams like Argentina that committ themselves so far forward in attack a counter-attacking game usually works.