Scudetto contenders!

Assuming things don't change in Calciomercato (even tho they will), who do you think are the top 7 clubs in Italy in order of strength - how will they finish the Serie A 2007-08 season?

1. Inter
2. Roma
3. Milan
4. Juventus
5. Palermo
6. Fiorentina
7. Lazio

At the mo, Roma have a better strength in depth than Milan, shocking as it may sound... tho if Milan buy a top striker, and Roma sell Mancini/chivu, things could change very dramatically...

What is interesting is that all these teams are stronger than last season (except maybe Fiorentina), with teams like Palermo, Roma and Juve who have done exceptionally well in the summer, its gonna be a great season!! There are 7 teams competing for the 4 CL spots, any of these could qualify...

Do you have any title odds out yet bluey?

If we're going this far why don't we try and predict the whole league

Of the top 7, I think:

1. Inter
2. Milan
3. Roma
4. fiorentina
5. Lazio
6. Juventus
7. Palermo

Palermo are losing some valuable players and could well lose Barzagli so I think they won't be up challenging for a CL spot.

Re Roma-Milan - Milan still have the experience which counts hugely when you're playing 28 games. Roma could also lose Chivu before the transfer windows up. I hope that players like Gourcuff and Gilardino step up next season.

Inter for a first is an easy choice. Lazio I like - they don't have any massive names but they have good players in all positions and seem to have built an understanding.

Juve I still feel will need time to gel, but 6th isn't at al bad

imo

1. ac milan
2 inter
3 juventus
4 fiorentina
5. roma

the odds is something like 5/4 inter 7/4 ac 5/1 juventus 8/1 roma 33/1 fiorentina

For the scudetto: Milan and Inter, that's it.

For a CL spot: Milan, Inter, Roma, Lazio, Juve and Fiorentina.

Disagree with this point - I fully expected Palermo to have a boot sale this summer, but instead they have strengthened!!

They let Corini & Di Michele go, and bought Jankovic & Miccoli. Now if you consider the emergence of Cavani as a top striker in the last 4-5 months, you realise that they are so much stronger than last summer... and at the same time, they are much younger. Very deftly done, if they don't sell any of their star now that is.

Fiorentina have bought a lot of talent, but all kids... and they already had too many talented kids... so I am not too sure about them anymore. The only thing that the Viola have on Palermo is the coach! If Prandelli was Palermo's coach, I would have been confident that they will qualify for the CL!

Tweedle wrote:Palermo are losing some valuable players and could well lose Barzagli so I think they won't be up challenging for a CL spot.

1. Inter (have best squad)
2. Milan (have ronaldo)
3. Juve (have experience)
4. one of roma/lazio/fiorentina

I fully expect there to be more signings, especially on the last day before the dealine as usual

bluenine wrote:Disagree with this point - I fully expected Palermo to have a boot sale this summer, but instead they have strengthened!!

They let Corini & Di Michele go, and bought Jankovic & Miccoli. Now if you consider the emergence of Cavani as a top striker in the last 4-5 months, you realise that they are so much stronger than last summer... and at the same time, they are much younger. Very deftly done, if they don't sell any of their star now that is.

Bear in mond though that they did slightly overachieve at the start of last season. If they don't start as well this time they may end out in mid-table mediocrity if they're not careful.

There is still a lot of interest around Barzagli and I can't help but feel there will be some interest in Simplicico before the summer's up.

Don't forget that they've also lost their future world class footballer Carriacolo (spelt wrong again, I know)

I also think Di Michele is a sizeable loss; Miccoli is possibly superior in terms of ability but he'll take time to settle.

Inter
Milan
Roma
Fiorentina
Lazio
Juve
Palermo

I think that it is crucial for Inter to win the Seria A this year. The last 2 titles have been somewhat tainted for obvious reasons so I don't think they hold much credit outside Inter fans. Now they have a great team and they collected some the best players from their rivals after going down so they should really win it.

Juventus will be a big threat though despite their inferior squad because they will have no CL or even UEFA cup football so they can save all of their strength for the league. I can see a close race between Inter and Juve but if El Gordo starts banging goals in for Milan they could easily challenge for the title as well. It will be an interesting Seria A this year.

In Roma's case, I just think they'll choke as usual.

Amauri+Cavani+Miccoli >>>>>>>>>> Amauri+Di Michelle+Caracciolo
Jankovic = a younger Corini

Plus, they have retained all their other stars - Agliardi, Barzagli, Biava, Zaccardo, Bresciano, Diana, Simplico, & Tedesco.

Last season, their fall in teh second half was much more spectacular than their good start... I think they will do better overall, tho their stupid president could easily ruin everything anytime...

Tweedle wrote:

bluenine wrote:Disagree with this point - I fully expected Palermo to have a boot sale this summer, but instead they have strengthened!!

They let Corini & Di Michele go, and bought Jankovic & Miccoli. Now if you consider the emergence of Cavani as a top striker in the last 4-5 months, you realise that they are so much stronger than last summer... and at the same time, they are much younger. Very deftly done, if they don't sell any of their star now that is.

Bear in mond though that they did slightly overachieve at the start of last season. If they don't start as well this time they may end out in mid-table mediocrity if they're not careful.

There is still a lot of interest around Barzagli and I can't help but feel there will be some interest in Simplicico before the summer's up.

Don't forget that they've also lost their future world class footballer Carriacolo (spelt wrong again, I know)

I also think Di Michele is a sizeable loss; Miccoli is possibly superior in terms of ability but he'll take time to settle.

Hmmm, I would say on paper Inter have the best chance again, they have one of the best squads in the world and the big teams that finished below them last season, Roma, Milan, Lazio haven't really made any signings to suggest they will be a better squad than Inter this season.

Juve have strengthened a lot, but are relying on a lot of youth, however the team spirit seems to be in place and I think Ranieri will do well as manager.

1) Inter
2) Juve
3) Milan
4) Roma
5) Lazio/Fiorentina/Palermo

The last scudetto was probably the first one which was not "tainted" in the last 15 years.... it was fairly won... for me, tainted were those titles in which Juve cheated and won.... the last 15 years of Moggi era... I guess for you a scudetto which is won by cheating with the help of refree's is less tainted than one which was won fairly against less strong opposition.

So I guess we differ. IMO now Inter need to focus more on the CL than the scudetto... I wouldn't mind if we didn't win the scudetto next season, as long as we win the CL...

Torrente wrote:I think that it is crucial for Inter to win the Seria A this year. The last 2 titles have been somewhat tainted for obvious reasons so I don't think they hold much credit outside Inter fans. Now they have a great team and they collected some the best players from their rivals after going down so they should really win it.

Juventus will be a big threat though despite their inferior squad because they will have no CL or even UEFA cup football so they can save all of their strength for the league. I can see a close race between Inter and Juve but if El Gordo starts banging goals in for Milan they could easily challenge for the title as well. It will be an interesting Seria A this year.

In Roma's case, I just think they'll choke as usual.

IMO Roma have strengthened the most this summer!

Esposito, Juan, Guily, & Brighi. All decent players, who will add very good quality to their bench! The only thing which they were missing last season...

Luis wrote:Hmmm, I would say on paper Inter have the best chance again, they have one of the best squads in the world and the big teams that finished below them last season, Roma, Milan, Lazio haven't really made any signings to suggest they will be a better squad than Inter this season.

bluenine wrote:The last scudetto was probably the first one which was not "tainted" in the last 15 years.... it was fairly won... for me, tainted were those titles in which Juve cheated and won.... the last 15 years of Moggi era... I guess for you a scudetto which is won by cheating with the help of refree's is less tainted than one which was won fairly against less strong opposition.

So I guess we differ. IMO now Inter need to focus more on the CL than the scudetto... I wouldn't mind if we didn't win the scudetto next season, as long as we win the CL...

Torrente wrote:I think that it is crucial for Inter to win the Seria A this year. The last 2 titles have been somewhat tainted for obvious reasons so I don't think they hold much credit outside Inter fans. Now they have a great team and they collected some the best players from their rivals after going down so they should really win it.

Juventus will be a big threat though despite their inferior squad because they will have no CL or even UEFA cup football so they can save all of their strength for the league. I can see a close race between Inter and Juve but if El Gordo starts banging goals in for Milan they could easily challenge for the title as well. It will be an interesting Seria A this year.

In Roma's case, I just think they'll choke as usual.

Regarding the Scudetto, all the smoke has not cleared with the calciopoli scandal yet. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Inter is found guilty of conducting a lot of the "dodgy" activities Milan, Lazio and Juve we doing. This seems to be typical of the big Italian teams. But it's true, it should be "innocent until proven gulty".

I agree with you when it comes to the CL though. If Inter win it this year, it would certainly make up for not winning the league. If anything, it would surpass winning the league since it's been so long since Inter won the CL.

bluenine wrote:Amauri+Cavani+Miccoli >>>>>>>>>> Amauri+Di Michelle+Caracciolo
Jankovic = a younger Corini

Plus, they have retained all their other stars - Agliardi, Barzagli, Biava, Zaccardo, Bresciano, Diana, Simplico, & Tedesco.

Last season, their fall in teh second half was much more spectacular than their good start... I think they will do better overall, tho their stupid president could easily ruin everything anytime...

Cavani played what? 10 games last season and got a couple of goals in the time. I think you're overhyping him a bit too much

Its a decent squad but I honestly don't think its any better than Fiorentina's. You were comparing Fiorentina's squad to Arsenal's a few months ago - and I think Palermo's squad isn't anywhere near the quality of Arsenals - we're better than Palermo in ever position.

bluenine wrote:The last scudetto was probably the first one which was not "tainted" in the last 15 years.... it was fairly won... for me, tainted were those titles in which Juve cheated and won.... the last 15 years of Moggi era... I guess for you a scudetto which is won by cheating with the help of refree's is less tainted than one which was won fairly against less strong opposition.

So I guess we differ. IMO now Inter need to focus more on the CL than the scudetto... I wouldn't mind if we didn't win the scudetto next season, as long as we win the CL...

Torrente wrote:I think that it is crucial for Inter to win the Seria A this year. The last 2 titles have been somewhat tainted for obvious reasons so I don't think they hold much credit outside Inter fans. Now they have a great team and they collected some the best players from their rivals after going down so they should really win it.

Juventus will be a big threat though despite their inferior squad because they will have no CL or even UEFA cup football so they can save all of their strength for the league. I can see a close race between Inter and Juve but if El Gordo starts banging goals in for Milan they could easily challenge for the title as well. It will be an interesting Seria A this year.

In Roma's case, I just think they'll choke as usual.

Only 15? I think it was more like 20 or 30.

And yeah, THAT is the reason Inter didn't won the CL. They didn't focus enough.

As opposed to top spanish team funded by the government, and winning many of their trophies under the more-than-dodgy "support" of a dictator's regime? No wonder you find it hard to believe that anyone can be innocent ;)

Torrente wrote:

Regarding the Scudetto, all the smoke has not cleared with the calciopoli scandal yet. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Inter is found guilty of conducting a lot of the "dodgy" activities Milan, Lazio and Juve we doing. This seems to be typical of the big Italian teams. But it's true, it should be "innocent until proven gulty".

A real Madrid fan can hardly be in a position to comment on another teams corruption, especially when there hasn't been any evidence for it, nor a trial on it.

bluenine wrote:As opposed to top spanish team funded by the government, and winning many of their trophies under the more-than-dodgy "support" of a dictator's regime? No wonder you find it hard to believe that anyone can be innocent

Torrente wrote:

Regarding the Scudetto, all the smoke has not cleared with the calciopoli scandal yet. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Inter is found guilty of conducting a lot of the "dodgy" activities Milan, Lazio and Juve we doing. This seems to be typical of the big Italian teams. But it's true, it should be "innocent until proven gulty".

bluenine wrote:As opposed to top spanish team funded by the government, and winning many of their trophies under the more-than-dodgy "support" of a dictator's regime? No wonder you find it hard to believe that anyone can be innocent

Torrente wrote:

Regarding the Scudetto, all the smoke has not cleared with the calciopoli scandal yet. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Inter is found guilty of conducting a lot of the "dodgy" activities Milan, Lazio and Juve we doing. This seems to be typical of the big Italian teams. But it's true, it should be "innocent until proven gulty".

I admit that I don't know how things are in Italy but listening to your players phones and geting them fake passports seems wrong. Not that Inter would ever do that. Hell, Morratti told us that Inter is clean so it must be true.

Its not the goals, its the way he has played that has me impressed... he looks like the real deal

Fiorentina have a better squad than Palermo, no doubt... but Palermo's starting XI seems to be better at the mo... Fiorentina has too many kids and have a higher probability of collapsing.... and lets keep Arsenal out of this discussion, coz you know what I am gonna say

Tweedle wrote:

bluenine wrote:Amauri+Cavani+Miccoli >>>>>>>>>> Amauri+Di Michelle+Caracciolo
Jankovic = a younger Corini

Plus, they have retained all their other stars - Agliardi, Barzagli, Biava, Zaccardo, Bresciano, Diana, Simplico, & Tedesco.

Last season, their fall in teh second half was much more spectacular than their good start... I think they will do better overall, tho their stupid president could easily ruin everything anytime...

Cavani played what? 10 games last season and got a couple of goals in the time. I think you're overhyping him a bit too much

Its a decent squad but I honestly don't think its any better than Fiorentina's. You were comparing Fiorentina's squad to Arsenal's a few months ago - and I think Palermo's squad isn't anywhere near the quality of Arsenals - we're better than Palermo in ever position.

I never said that Inter didn't do anything wrong... infact I doubt there is ANY big club in europe that doesn't do anything wrong... but talking about false passports in the same breadth as creating a system of refrees to cheat during games makes you sound a bit silly.

Its like saying that stealing a loaf of bread and murder are the same crime... they are both wrong, but the magnitude is different, very very different.

Also, innocent till proven guilty... remember that.

gone wrote:

bluenine wrote:As opposed to top spanish team funded by the government, and winning many of their trophies under the more-than-dodgy "support" of a dictator's regime? No wonder you find it hard to believe that anyone can be innocent ;)

Torrente wrote:

Regarding the Scudetto, all the smoke has not cleared with the calciopoli scandal yet. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Inter is found guilty of conducting a lot of the "dodgy" activities Milan, Lazio and Juve we doing. This seems to be typical of the big Italian teams. But it's true, it should be "innocent until proven gulty".

I admit that I don't know how things are in Italy but listening to your players phones and geting them fake passports seems wrong. Not that Inter would ever do that. Hell, Morratti told us that Inter is clean so it must be true.

IMO the standings would be like this:

1. Milan
2. Juventus
3. Inter
4. Roma

Milan, because they have won everything else lately except the Scudetto & winning it would be Ancelotti's mandate this season.

Juventus can be second because they have managed to build a very good squad now & more over they have this hunger for revenge. Add to the fact that they have no diversions in terms of CL.

Inter have a very formidable squad at the moment but IMO they still need another defender (CB).

bluenine wrote:As opposed to top spanish team funded by the government, and winning many of their trophies under the more-than-dodgy "support" of a dictator's regime? No wonder you find it hard to believe that anyone can be innocent

Torrente wrote:

Regarding the Scudetto, all the smoke has not cleared with the calciopoli scandal yet. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Inter is found guilty of conducting a lot of the "dodgy" activities Milan, Lazio and Juve we doing. This seems to be typical of the big Italian teams. But it's true, it should be "innocent until proven gulty".

The difference is that while those remain urban legends, Italy's corruption is there for all to see. Milan relegated in the 80s, 4 teams with heavy penaltes last year.

bluenine wrote:I never said that Inter didn't do anything wrong... infact I doubt there is ANY big club in europe that doesn't do anything wrong... but talking about false passports in the same breadth as creating a system of refrees to cheat during games makes you sound a bit silly.

Its like saying that stealing a loaf of bread and murder are the same crime... they are both wrong, but the magnitude is different, very very different.

Also, innocent till proven guilty... remember that.

By your words "innocent till proven guilty" means that Juve only cheated for 2 years, not 15 as you said before.

Agree, not the same crime. Still, a crime. Some punishment must come, don't you agree? Oh, and saying "everybody does it" it's not true. By the same standards I could say everybody does the ref thing.

gone wrote:
By your words "innocent till proven guilty" means that Juve only cheated for 2 years, not 15 as you said before.

Agree, not the same crime. Still, a crime. Some punishment must come, don't you agree? Oh, and saying "everybody does it" it's not true. By the same standards I could say everybody does the ref thing.

Very well said.
It's just that Bluenine is desperate to find some excuse for the lackluster performances of Inter in the past

I am sure once the clubs are found guilty, appropriate punishment will be decided... you do realise that even if Inter are convicted of all the allegations against them, none of them will impact the team on the pitch... these would fetch some fines at worst... thats how serious these allegation are...

As for the 15 year cheating comment, you cannot have it both ways... either you agree with the authorities, and believe that the "scudetto of honesty" is as real as Juve's wins in the last 15 years, or you contest both the "scudetto of honesty" and all the scudetti won in the last 15 years... I have mentally settled for the former, but have to bring the later up when people question the former... you can't have it both ways, my friend, thats like living in a world of delusion (or denial like some Juve fans)...

As for the fake passport scandal that you refer too - that was many years ago, many players from many clubs were punished for it, including recoba of Inter, Dida of milan, Veron of lazio, Assuncao of Roma, etc... so I am not sure what are you on about?? Bored and looking for an arguement?

So how are Steaua doing? Couldn't even win in Romania, eh?

gone wrote:

bluenine wrote:I never said that Inter didn't do anything wrong... infact I doubt there is ANY big club in europe that doesn't do anything wrong... but talking about false passports in the same breadth as creating a system of refrees to cheat during games makes you sound a bit silly.

Its like saying that stealing a loaf of bread and murder are the same crime... they are both wrong, but the magnitude is different, very very different.

Also, innocent till proven guilty... remember that.

By your words "innocent till proven guilty" means that Juve only cheated for 2 years, not 15 as you said before.

Agree, not the same crime. Still, a crime. Some punishment must come, don't you agree? Oh, and saying "everybody does it" it's not true. By the same standards I could say everybody does the ref thing.

bluenine wrote:The last scudetto was probably the first one which was not "tainted" in the last 15 years.... it was fairly won... for me, tainted were those titles in which Juve cheated and won.... the last 15 years of Moggi era... I guess for you a scudetto which is won by cheating with the help of refree's is less tainted than one which was won fairly against less strong opposition.

So I guess we differ. IMO now Inter need to focus more on the CL than the scudetto... I wouldn't mind if we didn't win the scudetto next season, as long as we win the CL...

Torrente wrote:I think that it is crucial for Inter to win the Seria A this year. The last 2 titles have been somewhat tainted for obvious reasons so I don't think they hold much credit outside Inter fans. Now they have a great team and they collected some the best players from their rivals after going down so they should really win it.

Juventus will be a big threat though despite their inferior squad because they will have no CL or even UEFA cup football so they can save all of their strength for the league. I can see a close race between Inter and Juve but if El Gordo starts banging goals in for Milan they could easily challenge for the title as well. It will be an interesting Seria A this year.

In Roma's case, I just think they'll choke as usual.

Now that you're talking of the last 15 years of the Moggi era, here are a few statistics for you to think about:

Inter have won 15 Scudetti till date
Juventus have won it 27 times

Luciano Moggi was the general director of Juventus F.C. from 1994 until May 2006. That's 13 years against the 15 you quoted
Considering this timeframe Juve won the Scudetto 6 times. And even if you take that off the 27 won(as you claim that they are tainted), Juve still has 21 compared to 15 of Inter.

13 instead of 15, forgive me for not crossing my t's...

Yeah, Juve were more sucessful historically even if they didn't cheat or dope or whateva... what does that got to do with the arguement??

TarunDang wrote:

bluenine wrote:The last scudetto was probably the first one which was not "tainted" in the last 15 years.... it was fairly won... for me, tainted were those titles in which Juve cheated and won.... the last 15 years of Moggi era... I guess for you a scudetto which is won by cheating with the help of refree's is less tainted than one which was won fairly against less strong opposition.

So I guess we differ. IMO now Inter need to focus more on the CL than the scudetto... I wouldn't mind if we didn't win the scudetto next season, as long as we win the CL...

Torrente wrote:I think that it is crucial for Inter to win the Seria A this year. The last 2 titles have been somewhat tainted for obvious reasons so I don't think they hold much credit outside Inter fans. Now they have a great team and they collected some the best players from their rivals after going down so they should really win it.

Juventus will be a big threat though despite their inferior squad because they will have no CL or even UEFA cup football so they can save all of their strength for the league. I can see a close race between Inter and Juve but if El Gordo starts banging goals in for Milan they could easily challenge for the title as well. It will be an interesting Seria A this year.

In Roma's case, I just think they'll choke as usual.

Now that you're talking of the last 15 years of the Moggi era, here are a few statistics for you to think about:

Inter have won 15 Scudetti till date
Juventus have won it 27 times

Luciano Moggi was the general director of Juventus F.C. from 1994 until May 2006. That's 13 years against the 15 you quoted
Considering this timeframe Juve won the Scudetto 6 times. And even if you take that off the 27 won(as you claim that they are tainted), Juve still has 21 compared to 15 of Inter.

Anyways, lets get back to the discussion... so Tarun, you think Milan have done enuf already this summer to win the scudetto??

TarunDang wrote:IMO the standings would be like this:

1. Milan
2. Juventus
3. Inter
4. Roma

Milan, because they have won everything else lately except the Scudetto & winning it would be Ancelotti's mandate this season.

Juventus can be second because they have managed to build a very good squad now & more over they have this hunger for revenge. Add to the fact that they have no diversions in terms of CL.

Inter have a very formidable squad at the moment but IMO they still need another defender (CB).

For me Milan's season depends on the form of their strikers, particularly Ronaldo.