Aston Villa Thread

Why did MoN sell Steven Davis? He's been phenomenal for Rangers. I think he's a fantastic midfielder.

He reminds me of Stuart McCall but with better technique. He zips round the pitch helping defenders and attackers.

He also carries the ball out of his own half really well. During the game against Werder Bremen in the UEFA cup he beat three guys with a deft turn when the pressure was on quite late in the game.

I can't fathom why MoN didn't fancy him. Over to you debaser.

Cheers

I think a combo of factors. his second season - O'Neill's first - he really struggled for form. O'Neill didn't seem to fancy him at centre mid (he is/was very lightweight) and Davis didn't like playing on the right, which is where he was put for a while when he played (or he was behind Petrov/Barry in the pecking order).

Anyways, these combined for him to have a 2nd season where he was a shadow of the player he was when he broke through the season before and O'Neill never saw the best of him. Davis wanted first team, O'Neill said he didn't want to sell him, but as he couldn't/wouldn't guarantee him first-team in his favoured position, he let him go to Fulham... he's done the same thing with Ridge/Cahill. a shame, in that it'd be nice for homegrown players to stay, but so it goes.

He was pretty poor at Fulham from what I saw (when they played at Shrewsbury he was possibly the least effective player on the pitch)...I think he has a tendancy to fade out of games, good when he's on form and getting lots of the ball, but too often anonymous - especially when up against 'physical' sides. But good to hear he's found some form again at Rangers. Are they likely to sign him permanent, do you know?

Thanks for the detailed response, debaser.

I think Walter Smith will be keen to sign him. Once or twice he's drifted out of games, but, apart from the odd aberration here and there, he's been really effective for Rangers.

Cheers

So Villa have scored 19 goals in the last 4 games. Quite impressive really.
Here's hoping you lot pip Everton for the 5th.

forza_rossi wrote:So Villa have scored 19 goals in the last 4 games. Quite impressive really.
Here's hoping you lot pip Everton for the 5th.

2nd highest scorers in the Premier League

(although it's 15 in the last 3, and we only scored 2 in the previous 5!)

momentum is in our favour for 5th now (although my natural football pessimism still allows the possibility we'll C0ck it up and finish below City and miss out on even the intertoto). still, get at least a draw at Everton and I'm reasonable confident we'll end up ahead of them, considering the remaining fixtures.

debaser wrote:

forza_rossi wrote:So Villa have scored 19 goals in the last 4 games. Quite impressive really.
Here's hoping you lot pip Everton for the 5th.

2nd highest scorers in the Premier League

(although it's 15 in the last 3, and we only scored 2 in the previous 5!)

momentum is in our favour for 5th now (although my natural football pessimism still allows the possibility we'll C0ck it up and finish below City and miss out on even the intertoto). still, get at least a draw at Everton and I'm reasonable confident we'll end up ahead of them, considering the remaining fixtures.

If you guys get 5th I will have a major orgasm

MoN Watch:

Let's see how long it takes MoN to actually sign someone. He's notorious for procrastinating in the transfer market.

Celtic fans grew increasingly frustrated with his inability to sign players in a prompt manner. When he finally decided to sign someone for Celtic, he typically left it until the last day in the transfer window.

I'm sure he once stated that he's apprehensive about the transfer market. He also seems reluctant about signing players who play outside of the UK.

I like MoN, but acquiring players is the weakest aspect of his managerial abilities. It's really quite frustrating. I think his judgement of players is also pretty suspect. He once stated that Ribery didn't impress him, for instance.

So, are you Villans concerned, or do you have faith in MoNs ability to overcome his fear of the transfer market and foreign players and actually sign someone before the end of the current transfer window?

I am a little concerned as the squad is pathetically small at the minute, and we start our inter-toto games in a few weeks. Also slightly concerned about the players we seem to be getting linked with - but I don't know if there is much accuracy in these or they are just a product of being seen as 'typical' MON players - i.e. basically anyone young & English, with the odd Celtic player added in. I'd hope we won't limit ourselves to just players already in the league, as you can miss out on some real classy players.

So at the minute the squad is:

Gk: Taylor
Rb:
Lb: Bouma
Cb: Laursen, Knight, Davies (poss out till Nov)
Rm: Routledge, Salifou
Cm: ReoCoker, Petrov, Gardner, Barry, Osbourne
Lm: Young, Maloney
St: Carew, Agbonlahor, Harewood

and of them, Barry is near-certain to go, and Maloney is also being linked with moves. Which would leave us with 15 inc Salifou and Routledge who've never started a game (plus a few youngsters who may get promoted). That's beyond paper thin - so we really need some players in the next few weeks.

Sidwell seems close, been strongly linked with Naylor from Celtic, also many keepers - Robinson/Green/etc., but not really getting many links with players who sound like they'd be big improvements to the first team (although obviously any keeper/rb would be an improvement on nothing). Hopefully they've got a few surprises up their sleeves. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to attract players of the calibre Spurs/City/Newcastle get, and we should have plenty of money.

In short...there will be signings, of that I am certain, and probably relatively soon, but whether it's the names we've been linked with (alot of which seem to be players the London clubs don't want - A.Ferdinand, Robinson, Dawson, Sidwell, Hoyte, etc - possibly just because of that being where the media is based) or some more interesting names, we shall have to wait.

I have a feeling you may try and sign Boruc

Lee Naylor! Jesus! That's worrying if true. He's absolutely gash. He dithers on the ball, releasing passes at the last possible moment, thereby causing fans to poop themselves in their seats at Parkhead (Celtic's stadium).

He's also got a suspect attitude.

Actually, I'm in a sour mood, so I'm going to go a step further than my previous post: MoN is shocking at conducting transfers and identifying players. His tighty whiteys fill up as soon as he hears a remotely foreign name.

Re Boruc. He' stated that he likes to play in the Champions League - that's what really excites him. So, if he leaves Celtic, I'd imagine that he'd only be interested in joining a club participating in that competition. Sure, MoN might bid for him (but only because Boruc's played for Celtic and he's aware of his abilities), but I don't think he'd be successful in doing so.

debaser wrote:
In short...there will be signings, of that I am certain, and probably relatively soon, but whether it's the names we've been linked with (alot of which seem to be players the London clubs don't want - A.Ferdinand, Robinson, Dawson, Sidwell, Hoyte, etc - possibly just because of that being where the media is based) or some more interesting names, we shall have to wait.

I remember Celtic fans optimistically stating the same thing once only for him to make zero additions to his squad during the summer transfer window (2003-2004).

I'm sure you will, too, but with MoN you just never know what might (not) happen!

Indeed, after going mental (at least for MoN) in his first season at Celtic, signing about 7 players and spending about £20 million, I believe (although I could be wrong) that he signed fewer than 7 players during his remaining four years at Celtic.

I also think MoN is in denial about the abilities of foreign players. During Euro 2008, for example, he apparently stated that English players have comparable technique to their foreign counterparts. I contend that the level of technique in players from certain countries is greater than their English (or Scottish, Northern Irish, and Welsh) peers.

Here are some articles about MoN and signings.

O'Neill Promises Signings - He broke that promise!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/3117529.stm

I've read on Celtic forums that they did have money to spend during this period.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/3334749.stm

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/article.html?in_article_id=162590&in_page_id=43

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20030810/ai_n12583571/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1

Some quotes -
"
Anyone who can lambast Zlatan Ibrahimovic as "possibly the most over-rated player on the planet" (or something of that ilk) will always struggle to entertain the neutral and should never be allowed anywhere near the upper echelons of any major (obviously, this excludes Scotland)league.

Trades in insular, unadventurous transfers and for me, his reputation has long been the source of utter befuddlement. Mr mediocrity."

"however, as a villa fan i must be honest and say that i am entirely bemused by his current transfer policy and the fact that we still haven't got a right back, never mind anyone to put pressure on the players we do have to make them play for their places. hence i think the poor start to the season."

"I was delighted when he was appointed because his record speaks for itself. I'm perplexed by the lack of transfer activity but that is balanced by the knowledge that the club is in very conscientious hands which have a proven track record of success."

"And is it going to happen or are we going to have the same empty feeling that we did at the end of the last 2 transfer windows?"



"O'Neill was great at organising the talents he inherited, such as Stilian Petrov, Lubo Moravcik and Larsson, but rubbish at expanding them."

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/08/15/on_second_thoughts_martin_onei.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/euro2008/2008/06/quiz_martin_oneil.html

The Quiet Earth wrote: "O'Neill was great at organising the talents he inherited, such as Stilian Petrov, Lubo Moravcik and Larsson, but rubbish at expanding them."

And that is the tradeoff, and hits the nail on the head (which is why I think he'd be superb as England manager btw).

Crying out for a Director of Football to do the transfer market stuff and leave ONeill to concentrate on training.

Roger Hunt wrote:

The Quiet Earth wrote: "O'Neill was great at organising the talents he inherited, such as Stilian Petrov, Lubo Moravcik and Larsson, but rubbish at expanding them."

And that is the tradeoff, and hits the nail on the head (which is why I think he'd be superb as England manager btw).

Crying out for a Director of Football to do the transfer market stuff and leave ONeill to concentrate on training.

I remember that the idea of a person responsible for overseeing transfers was mooted when he was at Celtic, but it never came to fruition.

I guess he doesn't appreciate any interference regarding transfers. But he doesn't mind interfering himself.

CELTIC manager Gordon Strachan revealed yesterday that Martin O’Neill will still influence his signings this summer.

MoN doesn't get involved with training players. He leaves that to his assistants (who've been with him from almost the beginning of his managerial career) Steve Walford and John Robertson.

I think the idea of two unknowns being largely responsible for managing the players on the training ground put the FA off appointing MoN.

MoN usually tends to get involved with the players on match day only. He believes that it makes him more authoritative.

Here's quite a damning statement and quote regarding MoN's failings as a manager.

"The Irishman is instead your archetypal British-style manager, a man who admits to having "absolutely no idea what a director of football actually does" and who leaves the training ground to his assistants, Steve Walford and John Robertson.
"

That was taken from FIFAs website!

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=107650.html

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/06/01/story812716965.asp

The Quiet Earth wrote:

debaser wrote:
In short...there will be signings, of that I am certain, and probably relatively soon, but whether it's the names we've been linked with (alot of which seem to be players the London clubs don't want - A.Ferdinand, Robinson, Dawson, Sidwell, Hoyte, etc - possibly just because of that being where the media is based) or some more interesting names, we shall have to wait.

I remember Celtic fans optimistically stating the same thing once only for him to make zero additions to his squad during the summer transfer window (2003-2004).

I'm sure you will, too, but with MoN you just never know what might (not) happen!

Well, if he went into the season with the squad we have (minus Barry), that alone would be negligence of a sackable level, because we wouldn't have enough pros to fill the bench, let alone cover any injury. I doubt the Celtic squad was as small as ours now in the season you refer to.

Interestingly, read the O'Neill quotes in that first BBC link. He never actually promises anything. He speaks exactly the same way now - always qualifies with '...if possible' 'we'll try...' etc. I suppose it's a symptom of his over-cautiousness with all things transfer

Still, I stand by my assement we will certainly sign players. I expect 5+ - Last summer he signed six, I believe, although varying in quality & long-term-ness (Carson, Davies, ReoCoker, Harewood, Knight, Salifou). We should at least match that -and even that would only just about replace what's gone from our squad (Mellberg, Cahill, Moore, Berger, Carson, Barry).

Big summer for him - and if we do come out of it with just Robinson, Hoyte, Naylor, Sidwell and Beattie - it's going to be a mite depressing.

TQE -what's the story behind that Strachan quote? In what way 'influence'?

debaser wrote:TQE -what's the story behind that Strachan quote? In what way 'influence'?

It's from this article.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/06/01/story812716965.asp

I've read a couple of times on various Celtic forums that MoN directed Celtic towards certain players even after he left. Unfortunately for Celtic, he directed them towards Mo Camara!

MoN was still an important shareholder in Celtic until he sold his stake in the club last year (I think).

The Quiet Earth wrote:MoN Watch:

Let's see how long it takes MoN to actually sign someone. He's notorious for procrastinating in the transfer market.

Celtic fans grew increasingly frustrated with his inability to sign players in a prompt manner. When he finally decided to sign someone for Celtic, he typically left it until the last day in the transfer window.

I'm sure he once stated that he's apprehensive about the transfer market. He also seems reluctant about signing players who play outside of the UK.

I like MoN, but acquiring players is the weakest aspect of his managerial abilities. It's really quite frustrating. I think his judgement of players is also pretty suspect. He once stated that Ribery didn't impress him, for instance.

So, are you Villans concerned, or do you have faith in MoNs ability to overcome his fear of the transfer market and foreign players and actually sign someone before the end of the current transfer window?

MON watch update: Summer spree is go. Although no proof yet as to venturing outside these shores.

Well done, Martin. He must have been trembling when he signed the cheque. Probably gave him a valium and told him to have a lie down after seeing it confirmed on Sky Sports News.

It's a pity that he's so fearful of transfers originating outside of the UK. There are some amazing players that would be delighted to sign for Villa, I imagine. And, generally, they'd cost less in wages and transfer fees than players from other EPL clubs.

Doesn't it really frustrate you? His ignorance and fearfulness frustrates me and I'm not even a Villan!

a little, in that you see who other clubs sign and think, 'he'd probably have been really good'. but hell, last season we finished above plenty of teams who'd brought in a lot more fancy names than ReoCoker, Harewood and Knight!

Anyway I don't think he's totally averse. signed Carew, after all, even if that might've been offered rather than initiated (it was a swap with Baros).

Maybe he'll shock us all this summer. Could we tempt you to become a Villan, if Martin shakes off some of his paranoia?

I still have faith in his transfers, after al - it was his transfers that got us through last season so well. He will buy the players he thinks he needs to improve the squad and play his game better, not that players that looks flash on the backs of the jerseys.

I agree that he seems far too much of a procrastinator, but that's only because we want him to make the big money moves that'll excite us - Martin has a different agenda and won't get drawn into anything else.

And although his signings last season didn't impress us much, the football certainly did - with some great games, the likes of which we haven't seen at Villa for some years.

2-2 in the away leg. Not too bad, hopefully can win comfortably at home.

Rumour is Friedel was at the match, pretty much completed the signing. Good news, if true. He's a proven premiership keeper, although getting on a bit, at 37, he could still have a few seasons in him.

Brad Guzan, who we've all but signed awaiting work permit, is a young American keeper, so the idea seems to be use Friedel as mentor to bring him in over the next few years. Sounds nice on paper, but who knows how it'll turn out.

Taylor will either be battling with him for 2nd choice, or surplus to requirements.

Either way, Friedel would definitely solve that position for the season, which is crucial. Onto sorting the defence next!

If I was thinking of just the next two seasons I'd much rather Friediel than Carson, Robinson and a few others.

Hopefully by then you'll be consistently in Europe and can look for an able replacement.

Just heard Bouma has broken his leg and its a bad one !

Villa defence is looking very very thin...

Davies, Laursen, Bouma, Knight are the only senior defenders at the club and with Bouma injured it doesnt look good.

Sgoater1 wrote:Just heard Bouma has broken his leg and its a bad one !

Villa defence is looking very very thin...

Davies, Laursen, Bouma, Knight are the only senior defenders at the club and with Bouma injured it doesnt look good.

Absolutely horrific injury.

Match is on Setanta 1.

Sheffield gunner wrote:

Sgoater1 wrote:Just heard Bouma has broken his leg and its a bad one !

Villa defence is looking very very thin...

Davies, Laursen, Bouma, Knight are the only senior defenders at the club and with Bouma injured it doesnt look good.

Absolutely horrific injury.

Match is on Setanta 1.

What happened ? Shame for the lad and Villa, although good for us seen as we play them on the opening day, not that id wish and injuy on anyone....except a U*d player, Joey Barton, Diouf and Alan Smith.

Nightmare. Poor Freddie

Hope it doesn't affect the players for this match, it'd be a disaster to lose.

People saying on other mb that Laursen's limping as well. That would leave Knight as the only fit senior defender in the entire squad!

I need to go find a pub with setanta for the 2nd half. Crappy stream keeps buffering. Wish me luck.

Sgoater1 wrote:

Sheffield gunner wrote:

Sgoater1 wrote:Just heard Bouma has broken his leg and its a bad one !

Villa defence is looking very very thin...

Davies, Laursen, Bouma, Knight are the only senior defenders at the club and with Bouma injured it doesnt look good.

Absolutely horrific injury.

Match is on Setanta 1.

What happened ? Shame for the lad and Villa, although good for us seen as we play them on the opening day, not that id wish and injuy on anyone....except a U*d player, Joey Barton, Diouf and Alan Smith.

Sorry for the late reply. He stretched for a tackle, and I think just caught his foot and got it stuck awkwardly. I think he broke his leg in at least one place, his foot/ankle weren't facing the right way. Horrible stuff. Setanta are refusing to show replays though and I only caught a brief glimpse of it when it happened.

Young has just scored a stunning goal. Great run and shot from the edge of the box.

He's fucked.