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debaser
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    Post by Since 1888 Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:29 pm

    Effenberg wrote:
    Since 1888 wrote:
    Effenberg wrote:
    Calidad wrote:This board is full of WUM's, no wonders some posters choose to leave.

    Thought Bayern played some wonderful football tonight. Was disappointed that Sosa didn't play, and I felt Bayern substitutes were too early, and the wrong players came off.

    Credit to Bolton for grinding out the result. Were completely outclassed though.

    Thanks for providing one of the few sensible posts in this thread.

    All these wind-ups are taking the fun out of this board.

    Bull, get used to some wind ups, if even that pisses you off so much than you might go living in a cage with nobody to critisize you.

    The problem is that half the board is seemingly just waiting for the Germans to fail. Yet you never see those posters write anything good when they're actually doing well. (Yes, that does happen.) Or how about just simply being realistic: e.g. Bayern really should have won about 5-1 or 5-2 today or, Germany's no.2 (Schalke) completely outplayed England's no.2 (Chelsea) last night, despite having a budget that is less than 10% of Chelsea's.

    Who are you going to wind up when everybody you could wind up has left the board?

    Some people actually want to talk football here - without prepubescent dick-measuring contests.

    Same goes for Portugal, Holland and other non top 3 leagues. Just the way it goes and very much part to ignorance but you can't blame english people from that. It's not like German or Dutch league are widely broadcasted.
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    Post by debaser Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:33 pm

    Effenberg wrote:
    Since 1888 wrote:
    Effenberg wrote:
    Calidad wrote:This board is full of WUM's, no wonders some posters choose to leave.

    Thought Bayern played some wonderful football tonight. Was disappointed that Sosa didn't play, and I felt Bayern substitutes were too early, and the wrong players came off.

    Credit to Bolton for grinding out the result. Were completely outclassed though.

    Thanks for providing one of the few sensible posts in this thread.

    All these wind-ups are taking the fun out of this board.

    Bull, get used to some wind ups, if even that pisses you off so much than you might go living in a cage with nobody to critisize you.

    The problem is that half the board is seemingly just waiting for the Germans to fail. Yet you never see those posters write anything good when they're actually doing well. (Yes, that does happen.) Or how about just simply being realistic: e.g. Bayern really should have won about 5-1 or 5-2 today or, Germany's no.2 (Schalke) completely outplayed England's no.2 (Chelsea) last night, despite having a budget that is less than 10% of Chelsea's.

    Who are you going to wind up when everybody you could wind up has left the board?

    Some people actually want to talk football here - without prepubescent dick-measuring contests.
    blame otto and deisler (and a great many years of footballing rivalry!) for that. it's mostly just banter though, no need to take it personal.

    as for the game tonight, bayern were clearly superior to bolton in their play and were very impressive at times but still conceded 2 goals and wasted several clear chances (albeit often chances they'd carved out themselves, such as the schweinsteiger open goal) - they could've won 5-1, but have only themselves to blame for drawing (what happened to the defence for the equalizer?)
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:39 pm

    I'm actually not trying to wind the Germans up because frankly I don't care enough about the Bundesliga.

    I just think that German clubs can't cut it. That's all. Bayern are a fantastic team, but the rest of the league is mediocre, and the results in Europe prove that.
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    Post by Sheffield gunner Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:45 pm

    From what I've seen of the Bundesliga this year, and from watching German teams in Europe, I think they are a bit naive and weak defensively. I think that is costing them in European competition at the moment, they concede goals too easily. A lot of the goals the German teams have conceded have been easily avoidable.
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:11 am

    Bayern is a CL team for sure on their day they are better than most teams in this years competition. Why was Ribery subbed early ??
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    Post by Effenberg Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:21 am

    Raifael wrote:Bayern is a CL team for sure on their day they are better than most teams in this years competition. Why was Ribery subbed early ??

    See above. Bayern have to play in Stuttgart on Saturday at 3.30.

    Terrible scheduling.

    Defense was problematic today. What can I say? Van Buyten played for Demichelis (to give the Argentine a rest). With Demichelis our defense has (mostly) been rock solid this year.
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:23 am

    You guys should be one of the few teams to win the UEFA Cup. Rensing should get more games IMO , how funny today Podolski bags a brace and its not the main headline and shouldn't the DFB protect Bayern why is the game on a Saturday ! should be on a Sunday (common sense)
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    Post by fcb Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:27 am

    2 good assists by Matigol for Villarreal today. Goals here:
    http://www.rojadirecta.com/foros/viewtopic.php?t=29162
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    Post by Effenberg Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:33 am

    Raifael wrote:You guys should be one of the few teams to win the UEFA Cup. Rensing should get more games IMO , how funny today Podolski bags a brace and its not the main headline and shouldn't the DFB protect Bayern why is the game on a Saturday ! should be on a Sunday (common sense)

    DFB isn't run by the cleverest of people. Last time Leverkusen had to play on the Saturday after playing Uefa Cup on Thursday, and, incidentally, also in Stuttgart (who won 1-0).
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    Post by Rez Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:49 am

    @Effenberg

    Diesler and Otto spent the whole summer claiming that Bayern were now one of the best teams in Europe and had the best squad in Europe. I remember being attacked by the Germans for claiming that their squad isnt half as good as uniteds.

    Even recently many were claiming that along with Arsenal, Bayern were currently the two best teams in Europe. Then Bayern draw at home to Bolton; a side with a $h!t manager (with no European experience) and $h!t players (their best players were missing).

    When you take the above into consideration, how can you not expect abuse. Dont take it personally, if united drew at home in Europe to the second worst team in any league, I would expect abuse.

    Bayern will probably go on and win the UEFA cup and Bolton will probably get relegated, but at this moment in time;

    Bayern (the best team in Germany) = Bolton (the second worst team in the EPL)

    Laugh
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    Post by Calidad Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:53 am

    kas wrote:2 good assists by Matigol for Villarreal today. Goals here:
    http://www.rojadirecta.com/foros/viewtopic.php?t=29162

    He should be starting for Villarreal more regularly. He's pure quality.

    @Effen

    Why isn't Sosa playing? Sad
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    Post by Puro Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:02 am

    Rez wrote:
    Bayern (the best team in Germany) = Bolton (the second worst team in the EPL)

    Laugh

    I didn't watch this Bayern match. I took a look at the stats (time of possession, goal attempts...), and it seems that Bayern controlled this game. What happened to Bayern? Stats aside, this was an embarrassing result for the German giants.

    A couple seasons ago we saw Chelsea (#1 in the EPL at the time) lose to a Betis (second to last in La Liga at the time) team without half of their starters. At any rate, nothing can save them Bayern red faces today. Biggrin <Ale>
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    Post by Effenberg Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:03 am

    Calidad wrote:
    kas wrote:2 good assists by Matigol for Villarreal today. Goals here:
    http://www.rojadirecta.com/foros/viewtopic.php?t=29162

    He should be starting for Villarreal more regularly. He's pure quality.

    @Effen

    Why isn't Sosa playing? Sad

    I want to see more of him too. I thought he showed great potential during pre-season. Then came that horrible injury. He played a half in Dortmund, a difficult match in which nobody impressed.

    Maybe at least a few minutes in Stuttgart?
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    Post by Effenberg Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:09 am

    Puro wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Bayern (the best team in Germany) = Bolton (the second worst team in the EPL)

    Laugh

    I didn't watch this Bayern match. I took a look at the stats (time of possession, goal attempts...), and it seems that Bayern controlled this game. What happened to Bayern? Stats aside, this was an embarrassing result for the German giants.

    A couple seasons ago we saw Chelsea (#1 in the EPL at the time) lose to a Betis (second to last in La Liga at the time) team without half of their starters. At any rate, nothing can save them Bayern red faces today. Biggrin <Ale>

    Of course it's a terrible result. People should just keep some perspective here. Bayern clearly outplayed Bolton and we all could see that there's a reason why our defense usually doesn't feature this line-up. (Anybody want Van Buyten?)

    Hitzfeld's substitutions were unfortunate, but because of our upcoming match in Stuttgart less than 48 hours later somewhat understandable.

    We should have won anyway.
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    Post by Rez Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:18 am

    Puro wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Bayern (the best team in Germany) = Bolton (the second worst team in the EPL)

    Laugh

    A couple seasons ago we saw Chelsea (#1 in the EPL at the time) lose to a Betis (second to last in La Liga at the time) team without half of their starters. At any rate, nothing can save them Bayern red faces today. Biggrin <Ale>

    Obviously I dont actually believe Bolton are as good as Bayern, it was a one off game. However it still left Bayern with egg on their face
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:36 am

    Rez wrote:
    Puro wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Bayern (the best team in Germany) = Bolton (the second worst team in the EPL)

    Laugh

    A couple seasons ago we saw Chelsea (#1 in the EPL at the time) lose to a Betis (second to last in La Liga at the time) team without half of their starters. At any rate, nothing can save them Bayern red faces today. Biggrin <Ale>

    Obviously I dont actually believe Bolton are as good as Bayern, it was a one off game. However it still left Bayern with egg on their face

    Come on let's cut the $h!t. German football is in serious crisis at club level. Apologists for the Bundesliga are fast starting to sound like those who maintain that Spanish footballers are world class, but just wet behind the ears, and that's why they don't win at the international level. Results are results.
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    Post by bluenine Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:44 am

    Amazing result for Fiorentina, specially when you look at the fact that Prandelli didn't play Mutu, Montolivo, Pazzini, Pasqual, Gamberini, Dainelli, & Potenza, hence he has effectively kept a large part of his team fresh for Udinese. Very similar to the way Mancio does it.

    The viola look more and more dangerous every season under Prandelli. I am begining to look at them as serious scudetto contenders, maybe a bit more dangerous than temperamental roma.

    Fiorentina 6-1 Elfsborg
    Jorgensen 4, 78 (F), Vieri 5 (F), Ishizaki 41 (E), Donadel 62 (F), Kroldrup 65 (F), Di Carmine (F) 87
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Fiorentina's purple patch continues after they demolished Swedish outfit Elfsborg 6-1 at the Stadio Artemio Franchi. The Viola came into the clash with a 20-game unbeaten run and were looking to recreate the performance they put in to get a draw against Villarreal at the Mestalla. With Adrian Mutu and Riccardo Montolivo injured, Coach Cesare Prandelli had to shuffle the pack a little. Argentine youngster Pablo Daniel Osvaldo and veteran Christian Vieri formed a rare partnership with Giampaolo Pazzini cooling his heels on the bench. Michele Pazienza was given the nod in the centre at the expense of Fabio Liverani and started next to Marco Donadel.

    The confident Viola came flying out of the blocks and were ahead after just four minutes. Jorgensen continued his impressive UEFA Cup form with a magnificent volley after Franco Semioli had sent over an inch-perfect cross. The visitors' game plan was already in shreds and before they could settle it was 2-0 to Fiorentina. The Gigliati stole the ball straight from the restart and Vieri hit a beautiful left-footed strike that left goalkeeper Johan Wiland helpless.

    After just five minutes, Prandelli's men were buzzing and they slowed the pace of the game down with the shell-shocked Swedes still looking to launch their first meaningful attack. Jorgensen was in buoyant mood and he blasted a fierce effort over the bar after 20 minutes. Midfielder Mathias Svenson replaced English striker James Keene for Elfsborg with just a quarter of the game played as the ex-Bournemouth man seemed unable to shake off an early knock. Moments later, Vieri nearly made it three. The ex-Inter hero exchanged passes with Osvaldo and hit the side-netting from the edge of the box.

    Elfsborg's first effort of the evening came from Stefan Ishizaki whose long-range drive was comfortably blocked by Sebastien Frey. On the half-hour mark there was a tentative shout for an Elfsborg penalty as Jari Ilola went to ground in the Fiorentina box, but there was no obvious contact and the referee waved play on. Osvaldo had the fans on their feet when he beat two men with some trickery on the wing and fed Pazienza, but the former Udinese man's strike was hopelessly wide.

    As the break approached, Elfsborg pushed forward looking to claw their way back into the game and they pulled one back through the dangerous Ishizaki. There was some controversy as the Fiorentina players and fans thought Ishizaki was offside when he began his run, but his angled strike into the corner was precise. Fiorentina led 2-1 at the interval, but were happy to hear the whistle as the Swedes rallied and had the better of the closing stages of the first period. The first action of the second half saw Jorgensen try to repeat his early strike, but his shot was a damp squib as it squirmed off the laces.

    Pazienza tried to work some magic by releasing Semioli, but the ex-Cheivo man's cross went directly out for a goal kick as the hosts tried to restart the engine. Elfsborg caused caused some Viola hearts to miss a beat when Daniel Alexandersson found Ishizaki at the back post, but Federico Balzaretti was there to block his effort. Spurred into action, Vieri came close to making contact with a Semioli ball before the crucial third goal arrived. And what a goal it was. Donadel launched a missile from 35 yards which burst Wiland's net and prompted sighs of relief around the Artemio Franchi.

    Elfsborg looked demoralised and minutes later it was 4-1 as Per Kroldrup rose to meet a Semioli free-kick and end the contest. With 25 minutes still remaining the Viola were out of sight, but that didn't stop Vieri letting rip from 30 yards with a fizzing effort that just cleared the bar. It was all Fiorentina as the visitors longed for the sanctuary of Scandinavia and Zdravko Kuzmanovic thought he had made it 5-1 when his header went inches wide with the 'keeper beaten all ends up.

    Minutes later it was 5-1! Jorgensen secured a brace as the inspirational Semioli's ball fell into his path and the Dane poked home from close range. Young striker Samuel Di Carmine replaced Vieri, who recieved a rousing ovation, and he too wrote his name on the score-sheet. The 19-year-old's strike from the right flew past Wiland to make it 6-1 to Fiorentina! It was rough justice for the Swedes who put up a decent fight for an hour, but it was a magnificent night for Prandelli's heroes.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Fiorentina: Frey; Vanden Borre (Pasqual 70), Kroldrup, Ujfalusi, Balzaretti; Pazienza, Donadel, Semioli, Jorgensen; Osvaldo (Kuzmanovic 63), Vieri (Di Carmine 82)


    Last edited by on Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Isco Benny Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:52 am

    Rez wrote:
    Puro wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Bayern (the best team in Germany) = Bolton (the second worst team in the EPL)

    Laugh

    A couple seasons ago we saw Chelsea (#1 in the EPL at the time) lose to a Betis (second to last in La Liga at the time) team without half of their starters. At any rate, nothing can save them Bayern red faces today. Biggrin <Ale>

    Obviously I dont actually believe Bolton are as good as Bayern, it was a one off game. However it still left Bayern with egg on their face

    I miss Otto on days like these Sad
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:22 am

    Got home last night to see that possibly one of the worst teams in the EPL has DRAWN with 'Europe's best team' as Otto would put it, on their own turf lol!
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    Post by Effenberg Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:51 pm

    Did you all miss Otto when Germany's c-team conquered Wembley and when Hamilton blew the title - twice?
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    Post by Calidad Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:31 pm

    Has otto gone for good then?
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    Post by Isco Benny Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:35 pm

    Effenberg wrote:Did you all miss Otto when Germany's c-team conquered Wembley and when Hamilton blew the title - twice?

    Yes, actually I did.

    The Anglo-German banter has died down greatly since his disappearance; which is just downright disgraceful.

    Some of the excellent quotes from the BBC minute-by-minute match analysis:

    "Ribery has the type of footwork which would be handy to dodge those individuals handing out free newspapers outside the tube"

    "Lucio is looking dodgy at the back. Lucky for him he's up against Kevin Davies who has the turning circle of an oil tanker, and the speed to match it"

    Im still chuckling at the thought of Gary Megson outwitting Ottmar Hitzfeld. When you compare what Hitzfeld has achieved with what Megson has done, it would be like me drawing a game of chess against Gary Kasparov
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:39 pm

    Its trendy not to rate Bolton at the moment. But their squad really isn't very good, and their manager's a wanker.

    Love the comment about Ribery's dribbling. So true
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    Post by Since 1888 Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:28 pm

    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I'm actually not trying to wind the Germans up because frankly I don't care enough about the Bundesliga.

    I just think that German clubs can't cut it. That's all. Bayern are a fantastic team, but the rest of the league is mediocre, and the results in Europe prove that.

    You really shouldn't say that since the Italian teams mostly do piss poor in the Uefa Cup which shows the strengt in depth of a league.
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    Post by fcb Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:34 pm

    Again...Megson did not "outwit" Hitzfeld. As Effenberg said, Hitzfeld had to make some substitutions earlier than usual because of their upcoming match on Saturday, and Bayern dominated the game but were just a bit unlucky and underestimated Bolton by relaxing once they were 2-1 up.
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:08 pm

    Since 1888 wrote:
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I'm actually not trying to wind the Germans up because frankly I don't care enough about the Bundesliga.

    I just think that German clubs can't cut it. That's all. Bayern are a fantastic team, but the rest of the league is mediocre, and the results in Europe prove that.

    You really shouldn't say that since the Italian teams mostly do piss poor in the Uefa Cup which shows the strengt in depth of a league.

    Not if those teams field reserve teams and barely take it seriously. It's a poor attitude, but if Italian teams did take it seriously, it would be fantastic. However, your comments are not entirely unfounded. Italian teams at the lower levels have far fewer resources than their Spanish and English counterparts. That will change in 3 years, however. The new TV rights system will ensure that clubs like Siena see an almost triple increase in revenue.
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:43 pm

    Quite a few German teams have been playing their reserves as well Forza. I remember Blut saying last year...
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:15 am

    Tweedle wrote:Quite a few German teams have been playing their reserves as well Forza. I remember Blut saying last year...

    Yeah but come on. German teams have been struggling in European competition for some time now. Italian football seems to be doing very well at the top level, but let's see if Fiorentina, who also played some semi-regulars yesterday, can fly the flag deep into the competition. Then Italian football will really be the toast of the world. Imagine if Fiorentina actually won. World Champions, European Champions, Golden Boot winner, Golden Ball winner, UEFA Cup winner--all in the space of two years.
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    Post by Tweesus Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:20 am

    I'd have to kill myself
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    UEFA Cup Group Stage - Matchday 2 - Page 4 Empty Re: UEFA Cup Group Stage - Matchday 2

    Post by Isco Benny Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:11 pm

    kas wrote:Again...Megson did not "outwit" Hitzfeld. As Effenberg said, Hitzfeld had to make some substitutions earlier than usual because of their upcoming match on Saturday, and Bayern dominated the game but were just a bit unlucky and underestimated Bolton by relaxing once they were 2-1 up.

    Outwitted by the Ginger Pele.

    Megson was part of the Norwich side the beat Bayern in Germany back in 1992. He knew it was possible, because frankly Bayern are a side whose arrogance often plays a big part in their downfall over the years. Bringing off Ribery was an insult, an proved suicidal. Megson and Bolton knew they had a chance then.

    Outwitted with a capital "O". lol!

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    UEFA Cup Group Stage - Matchday 2 - Page 4 Empty Re: UEFA Cup Group Stage - Matchday 2

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