what does this mean for german football

well then the pride of joy bayern munich. without doubt the best team in germany can't even beat one of englands worst teams in the EPL.

has german football fallen that far behind other leagues such as england ?

to think fo the epic support they have and to have no european supremacy o dear o dear

i think it was well diserved from bolton yesterday too.

To be honest, I think Bayern belong in the CL. I thought they played some wonderful football last night, and although I haven't seen the stats I imagine they had atleast 60% possession, and around 15-20 efforts on goal. Bolton fought well, but the gulf in quality was evident. I don't necessarily think it's a reflection of the quality of the Bundesliga, and I imagine Bayern will be contesting the trophy, whereas Botlon will probably be knocked in the KO stages.

As for their teams in the CL, not convinced that Shalke or Stuttgart ever had the means of qualifying for the KO stages. That said, they both have very tough groups. I believe Bremen are capable though, and will qualify.

It is just a blip, next year it will be stronger. Bayern have a very strong squad and will be back in CL action next year for sure. I won't read to much into that result.

Werder are an excellent team as well, they just need to invest in a quality number nine.

They will be climbing up the rankings again.

yeah i agree breman do have the quality their on edge for qualification in their group though.

bayern do belong in he champions league but it just shows. you go back a few years the likes of leverkusen in the final. bayern getting their and of course winning the trophy.

you just can't see german teams making the final these days through times of change.

tbh id be suprised if a team that aint from england/italy/spain reaches the final that would be a real shock for me.

that seems tobe the supremacy of the european leagues now and germany has dropped off from this.

when they were a very substantial league a few years back is really my point.

Yes, I don't think we will see a team outwith EPL, Serie A & La Liga contesting a final, or even semi final. That said, Porto were next expected to win it, and Monaco's success was completely unexpected too.

The last few years, I never considered Bayern a genuwine contender for the CL, but I believe they now have one of the best squads in Europe, and are capable of winning it again. Not entirely convinced by Van Bommel, but he aside I think they are very strong. Probably have the best set of FB's in Europe, and their front 2 is as strong as anyone else has to offer.

Bayern IMO do possess one of the best teams in Europe and have one of the great coaches in the modern game at their helm. The sad thing is they should have performed better in the league last season. But now they have a quality squad , impressive German talents in Jansen , Lahm , Rensing , Kroos etc but they have some top foreign talent in van Bommel , Ribery and Toni. Like many say they are a CL team. So they be back next season without a doubt.

yeah they certainly have vastly improved this season.

this is partly the problem with germany . obviously last season aside it is mostly a 1 team league

their aint many years where bayern dusnt win the league. makes it less attractive in my opinion.

+ the best players such as our friend rafael van der vaart want to move to such leagues like la liga.

You can say the same for German football with other leagues in Europe , we should not be obsessed with the so called 'top 3' leagues , this is having a vast effect on other leagues.

The problem with Bayern yesterday is that they made their substitutions too early - just like Argentina in the WC. IMO They've got a great squad, but they need to add another central midfielder as they only have Ottl, Ze Roberto and Van Bommel.

"i think it was well diserved from bolton yesterday too. "

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....sure it was.

It matters not, we will still qualify for the next round and remain favourites on merit.

The Bundesliga clubs are suffering through lack of investment. They need to find ways of improving the quality on the pitch. Stuttgart, Bremen and Schalke should all be doing better in Europe than they have been this season. Injuries and luck will always play a part as they have this season, but the quality needs to improve.

While the club football is in need of improvement, we can at least still look forward to a summer of football in the Euros.

Juego de la Okkas wrote:The problem with Bayern yesterday is that they made their substitutions too early - just like Argentina in the WC. IMO They've got a great squad, but they need to add another central midfielder as they only have Ottl, Ze Roberto and Van Bommel.

Exactly. Taking Ribery off was absurd. He was dominating the match. Would have thought Bayern of all teams would have learned the lesson of not counting chickens too early. If I was a Bayern supporter I'd be pretty pissed off. They should have won comfortably even after Ribery went off.

Posted by someone who's team lost to Rosenborg home and away .

Dark Savante wrote:Posted by someone who's team lost to Rosenborg home and away .

I don't need reminding of that, thank you.

Dark Savante wrote:Posted by someone who's team lost to Rosenborg home and away .

At least they can play against Roseborg unlike Bayern

You are very welcome , we dont like to be reminded of our short comings as well , result wise it was bad performance wise good.

golsud wrote:

Dark Savante wrote:Posted by someone who's team lost to Rosenborg home and away .

At least they can play against Roseborg unlike Bayern

Good to see La Liga posters happy comparing their league to Norweigian one (or happy to be graced by the ROSENBERG).

What I meant was that Valencia are playing the Champions League whilst Bayern in the UEFA Cup.

I have to agree, I think I've learnt more about this board than I have about Bayern, the way people have reacted to this, like excitable dogs licking a tasty piece of refuse.

Yesterday was a bit of a blip result that didn't really tell you that much about Bayern's overall chances, and was surely more about congratulations to Bolton than anything else. As regards the subs, yes they look arrogant/complacent until you remember that the Bavarians have to play again tomorrow. Munich might've not been playing their best lately but they still have a great chance in Europe this season and next. Besides, putting on a talent like Toni Kroos, who has looked impressive in his recent debuts, only hints at more to come. (Three teams qualify from each group of five dammit, so Bayern are certain to qualify and Bolton more than likely will too. In terms of importance, the game itself was pretty insignificant.)

As regards the other German teams, yes the CL performances have been lamentable overall but in terms of resources and investments these teams are hardly equipped to compete with the very best of the "big three". Still, Schalke comprehensively outplayed Chavski on Tuesday and have a better chance than Werder of getting through or at least not being eliminated altogether; the latter appear to have blown it by now, certainly are in need of a top-class striker and a fit Frings, and you can mount an argument against them of having choked at crunch points (e.g. in the UEFA Cup and in the BL at the end of last season, if not v barcelona in the CL, and in this year's Champions League)...

Stuttgart just haven't really turned up for this season, true enough.

Allez les rouges wrote:I have to agree, I think I've learnt more about this board than I have about Bayern, the way people have reacted to this, like excitable dogs licking a tasty piece of refuse.

it's part of the banter mate

Believe me you should try being as pool fan if you think you get it bad after one bad day

But you do of course have to blame it all on otto and deisler

Dark Savante wrote:You are very welcome , we dont like to be reminded of our short comings as well , result wise it was bad performance wise good.

That is what I was saying. I meant your performance was good enough. You should have won that match, even after Ribery was taken off. Seemed a bit odd that he was substituted with half hour to go. Have you got a big league match ahead.

COTR wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:I have to agree, I think I've learnt more about this board than I have about Bayern, the way people have reacted to this, like excitable dogs licking a tasty piece of refuse.

it's part of the banter mate

Believe me you should try being as pool fan if you think you get it bad after one bad day

But you do of course have to blame it all on otto and deisler

Yeah it's all fair enough, but people do have to put some EFFORT into their piss-taking and WUMming if it's to be enjoyable and funny rather than knee-jerk and tedious, and maybe Effe has a point about people just giving up on the board as a result.

Obviously I appreciate the way you feel, being one of the few people on the board who actually rather likes Liverpool (there's an inordinate amount of unreasoned Arsenal hate as well) – the agendas are annoying but need to be better thought out, even if it's just a photo of Stevie on his knees taking it with the caption "After getting fucked 6-3 by the Arsenal reserves, Steven Gerrard is ready to take it doggy-style" (think that was Batman).

More of that is fine

@ Dark Savant: When I said I'd have been pissed off if a Bayern fan, I meant at not winning when the performance deserved a win.

I knew what you mean.
As for CL we will be back watch out.

In the same kind of idea, Marseille, the worst team of Ligue 1 (19th), beat one of the big 4 english teams : Liverpool.

What does this mean for english football ?

Nothing, same for this topic.

Napoléon wrote:In the same kind of idea, Marseille, the worst team of Ligue 1 (19th), beat one of the big 4 english teams : Liverpool.

What does this mean for english football ?

Nothing, same for this topic.

@EMP: Bayern have a match against Stuttgart on Saturday, and less than 48 hours between that game and the Bolton match. That's why Hitzfeld was forced into early subs.

kas wrote:

Napoléon wrote:In the same kind of idea, Marseille, the worst team of Ligue 1 (19th), beat one of the big 4 english teams : Liverpool.

What does this mean for english football ?

Nothing, same for this topic.

@EMP: Bayern have a match against Stuttgart on Saturday, and less than 48 hours between that game and the Bolton match. That's why Hitzfeld was forced into early subs.

Ok, I understand now. Seemed weird that he took Ribery off so early, but makes sense now. Why doesn't Bundesliga schedule Stuttgart match for Sunday? Seems unfair on Bayern to have so little rest.

Indeed it's very poor planning. They're just so stubborn with their schedule (1 game Friday - 6 Saturday - 2 Sunday). Since there are four teams in the Uefa Cup, they can't all play on Sunday. That's their logic. Moving a game to Sunday and thereby changing the schedule is unthinkable, even though it would benefit the teams that represent the country. (Germans are indeed not the most flexible, I'm afraid.)

Stuttgart are actually a little extra-lucky there. First they got Leverkusen on the Saturday after their Thursday match and now Bayern.

I think I've pretty much said all there is to say in the Cup section. The performance was fine (except for two defensive mistakes) but in football the better team doesn't always win.

If the (seemingly unsensible) substitutions help get us 3 important points in the league tomorrow I won't complain. Winning the Bundesliga is our no.1 objective this year. I'm sure we'll get to see the real Bayern in the Uefa Cup k.o. stages as well.

Cesc wrote:It is just a blip, next year it will be stronger. Bayern have a very strong squad and will be back in CL action next year for sure. I won't read to much into that result.

Werder are an excellent team as well, they just need to invest in a quality number nine.

They will be climbing up the rankings again.

what do it mean?

EMP wrote:

Would have thought Bayern of all teams would have learned the lesson of not counting chickens too early.

whats its meaning?
thanks.
confounded say i.

Effenberg wrote:Indeed it's very poor planning. They're just so stubborn with their schedule (1 game Friday - 6 Saturday - 2 Sunday). Since there are four teams in the Uefa Cup, they can't all play on Sunday. That's their logic. Moving a game to Sunday and thereby changing the schedule is unthinkable, even though it would benefit the teams that represent the country. (Germans are indeed not the most flexible, I'm afraid.)

Stuttgart are actually a little extra-lucky there. First they got Leverkusen on the Saturday after their Thursday match and now Bayern.

I think I've pretty much said all there is to say in the Cup section. The performance was fine (except for two defensive mistakes) but in football the better team doesn't always win.

If the (seemingly unsensible) substitutions help get us 3 important points in the league tomorrow I won't complain. Winning the Bundesliga is our no.1 objective this year. I'm sure we'll get to see the real Bayern in the Uefa Cup k.o. stages as well.

The substitutions make sense for the reason you mention. I watched the match on Channel 5 in UK and the commentators were begging for Ribery to be taken off. They never mentioned the context of Hitzfeld's decision - which should have paid off anyway. It makes perfect sense to concentrate on the league, especially when you were in control anyway. Can't understand attitude of Bundesliga though. They really should help the clubs out.