Do we have a poor calibre of great players now?

Seems to me looking at Tweedle's thread on the best XI of our generation most of the players there come predominantely from the 90's.

How many of today's top players would make that list. Ok in fairness some of our top stars today are barely midway through their careers but going by the current Fifa, Ballon D'or , Fifa Pro winner Kaka, could he even make the bench on the list we just put in Tweedle's thread?

Yes.

easier to judge players with more hindsight - in the middle of their careers it's difficult to really get perspective. no doubt people doing similar lists in 5-10 years will include Kaka, CRonaldo, Messi, and so on.

I've believed for some time now that the standard of player has deteriorated since the 90s.

Or, perhaps, the talented players were spread around clubs more evenly in the 80/90s.

In the 90s, for example, Rangers and Celtic struggled, and I mean struggled, to do anything in Europe, regularly finding themselves out of Europe before xmas. And they generally lost to mediocre European teams despite having talented players like Laudrup, Gazza, Di Canio, Van Hooijkdonk, etc.

Now their players are considerably weaker but they progress to the later stages of European competitions. It is perplexing!

Rangers could have their most successful ever season this year, and yet, even most Rangers fans would agree that their team is a poor imitation of the one from the 90s! Or even the one from Dick Advocaat's era!

So, yeah, the standard has dropped. The alternative is preposterous: Walter Smith and Gordon Strachan have become tactical geniuses! Hence their teams’ good fortune in Europe.

@ The quiet earth, you do also have to take into account how the Champions League has changed in format from two group stages, in knock out competition (one off games) on the night anyone can win.

Although you may have a point, we have to consider the above.

I'm referring to a time before that even occurred. Rangers did well in the CLs first year, but thereafter they couldn't even beat teams like IFK Gothenberg, AEK Athens, Levski Sofia, etc! And they had these excellent players, too!

There were other teams, too. Auxerre, Grasshoppers, CSKA Moscow, Club Brugge, etc...

And Celtic were even worse!

No. I'm 40 & think there's great players in any generation (don't think the 90s is the best decade). Nearly put C Ronaldo in my team (& he only had a 'few' years to impress).

As with all sportsmen they are only truly appreciated years after they retire. All the hate from opposing fans fades away and they can judge them more objectively, and their faults tend to be forgotten too.

robert wrote:Seems to me looking at Tweedle's thread on the best XI of our generation most of the players there come predominantely from the 90's.

How many of today's top players would make that list. Ok in fairness some of our top stars today are barely midway through their careers but going by the current Fifa, Ballon D'or , Fifa Pro winner Kaka, could he even make the bench on the list we just put in Tweedle's thread?

You said it yourself the former greats have just recently been retiring and the next generation of great players has yet to settle...

Though to be honest I find that football clubs are now turning more to the physical aspect of the game rather than to the artistic one...This helps the rustic player more than it does to the skilled one

I think Kimbo makes a very good point. It's the nature of memory that great players, once they are retired, will be remembered for the great things they did; that without seeing them play every week, their best moments are what we think of when we think of them; whereas, when watching players each and every week, we see their flaws as well. I think this works in an opposite way with average players - I think there's probably a tendency to view the average Premier League player today as better than an average Premier League player from ten years ago, because average players, who never had anything to make them stand out, are soon forgotten, whereas average players who are still around are appreciated for what they do offer.

I think there are two other points. It's arguable, and I know plenty of people argued this when we hired Keegan in January, that football has become more widely tactically concerned than it was in the 90's (at least in England); and then there is Barrilete's point that football clubs are focused on fitness, on pace and strength, to a greater extent than before.

The fact that top teams tend now to be very fit and athletic perhaps does mean that artistic players get less room to play their game, and probably means that there's less of a disparity between teams in the top divisions - increased fitness means that the naturally talented, flair players can be stifled more, that they can struggle especially if they're not also blessed with strength and speed.

This, added to more teams being tactically aware, is perhaps why teams like Rangers can do better in the Champions League now than they did when they had more star players in the 90's, why Greece won the European Championships a few years ago. That said, without knowing a huge deal about Rangers now or in the 90's, I'd be inclined myself to put their recent relative success in the CL down to chance somewhat.

I think we are also in a particular situation on here, being on a football forum. On the one hand, rivalries are particularly heated on here at times, which means that people will find ways to slight the players from opposing teams. But in general, being a football forum, there's a lot of analysis of players, a lot of close critique - whenever a player that some people rate has a bad game, other people highlight this and question his worth, and this critical atmosphere probably makes it feel like there aren't as many great players as there were ten years ago. The fact that a lot of us are in our twenties, and perhaps more objective now than we were growing up in the 90's, adds to this.

Do you really think that by the time Kaká retires people will rate players like Beckham, Keane and Gascoigne higher than him? Well, maybe in England...

sheva7 wrote:Do you really think that by the time Kaká retires people will rate players like Beckham, Keane and Gascoigne higher than him? Well, maybe in England...

Do people rate those players higher? Keane and Beckham are totally different players and play different roles. Gascoigne played a similar role but was immensely talented, just as talented as Kaka probably, if not more, so if people want to rate him highly i see no problem with it.

If you consider that players have never been in better shape, either physically or mentally, I'd say today's players are the most prepared for greatness in atheltic terms.

That said, we can see, as has been mentioned here, that athleticism has in some casses taken the place of talent. We have sides such as the US national team to showcase this for us, generally dominating football in North America despite playing against sides that have more technically gifted players - they simply out-run & out-husstle the oposition through-out the 90mns. The US has beaten Portugal for example and there's no way they have a more skilled or tactically aware group than we do... but they put in the work and got the result... they were clearly out-classed at the Copa America and yet weren't a complete embarresment either.

I think what we find is that while our most skilled players aren't any worse than those of the past, the intensity level has been risen and those 'medium' players might be lagging behind as a result of this, being left behind for bigger/stronger players that may not be quite as gifted as this group.

Those near the top, who do possess this physical/mental advantage may even find themselves in a class they wouldn't have a decade ago, Kaká some may say for example, would perhaps be consider a medium player if not for his impressive physical strength/mental preperation. Simply put, training might be putting players higher up than they should be, while others are left behind because they simply don't have the phyical charecteristics to survive in today's game.

Still, players such as Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Van Persie, Fabregas, Torres, Quaresma, Anderson etc. tell me our skilled players are in fact quite skilled and only need time to be considered greats.

btw, João Moutinho is for example a highly skilled, high output midefielder... and yet his lack of hight and brute force may limite his ability to ever play in one of the more physically demanding leagues in Europe... this by no means indicates to me that he doesn't have the skill to do so - I'm quite certain he has everything necessary to play abroad and be great.

Kimbo wrote:As with all sportsmen they are only truly appreciated years after they retire. All the hate from opposing fans fades away and they can judge them more objectively, and their faults tend to be forgotten too.

AMEN

Couldnt agree more. People look back with rose tinted specs. All the $h!t seasons or games these so called past "greats" played are forgotten over time, the best memories remain.

Also factor in that footballers are continually becoming more and more athletic, and you see a lot of the talented players today more nullified.

Imagine Ronaldo playing in the 70s for example. The kid would run riot. Would get kicked more, but the defenders wouldnt be able to keep up the intensity they do today.

Footballers haven't got worse. Simply our perception of them has been distorted over time

@Bashmachkin, great post as usual

Case in point is Buffon. The only reason why people so not consider him to be a legend yet is that he is still playing... and probably will play for another 10 years. But his career has been so phenomenal, that once he retires, he might even overtake the legendary Lev Yashin in status... he will definately become a greater legend than the greatest Italy ever produced (Zoff) if he isn't so already.

Like it happens with great painters, their true value is usually realised once they are no more. Only when a footballer retires that we will realise how big a legend he has been.