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    Euro-bollox

    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:47 pm

    For all the clueless comments made by pundtis...

    Pat Nevin/Phil Mcnulty:

    A lot of teams play in a 4-2-3-1 system these days and that is extraordinarily defensive. You have one forward then you have three people going to support him.

    This is effectively an adapted 4-2-4 format but the difference being the two in that system are extremely defensive whereas in a 4-2-4 the two tend to go forward a wee bit.


    When you employ a 4-4-2 system, all four in the midfield go forward to an extent and I am really hoping for some good attacking football in this tournament.


    Otto Rehhagel employed strong defence to win Euro 2004

    If it is going to be a tournament that exists with most teams playing four defenders and two sitters in midfield, then I am going to be asleep for most of it but I just do not see that because not too many teams are doing it.

    We can look back at Greece and their success but football changes really quickly and what system did the new champions of Europe use? Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson put out a 4-4-2, which is extraordinary, almost unthinkable.

    It was a 4-2-4 set-up with Patrice Evra, a full-back, bombing forward and one of those midfielders bombing forward. It is almost Brazilian in its offensiveness.

    I think there is a nudge towards more positivity than there was three or four years ago. The Dutch will be more positive, as will the French - who are positive even when they play one up front. There are more positive teams out there so let's hope we see that reflected in the football we see in Austria and Switzerland.

    source:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2008/7433459.stm

    That's bullshit even McClaren wouldn't' come up with.

    4-2-3-1 is 4-3-3 midfield pointing forwards with more withdrawn wingers. has f@ck all to do with 4-2-4.
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    Post by DD Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:49 pm

    Laughing
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    Post by Black Magic Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:49 pm

    Stupidity.

    " 4-2-3-1 system these days and that is extraordinarily defensive."

    Watch a Roma match fuckface. Ale
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    Post by Khadrim Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:57 pm

    Not familiar with 4-2-4 as I have never really seen it played.

    But I would've have though his argument depends on how close the AM/Support striker was to the target man.
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    Post by Khadrim Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:00 pm

    BM Ale wrote:Stupidity.

    " 4-2-3-1 system these days and that is extraordinarily defensive."

    Watch a Roma match fuckface. Ale

    I thought Roma played 4-6-0. But I bow to your superior knowledge.

    But 4-2-3-1 is defensive as you have 6 players whose main job is to defend. It does give the fullbacks license to attack though.
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    Post by blutgraetsche Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:06 pm

    It's not the system, it's the interpretation of it. You can be very attacking minded with a 4-5-1 also, it all depends on the philosophy of the coach / team.
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    Post by Axeslammer Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:10 pm

    Khadrim wrote:

    But 4-2-3-1 is defensive as you have 6 players whose main job is to defend. It does give the fullbacks license to attack though.

    Holland 2006 was a prime example that playing a lot of attackers does not guarantee attacking football.

    I've said it at that time that by playing an extra defending minded player we'd get more control and thus play more attacking....

    The current 4-2-3-1 proves that point : the current team is far more dominating and attacking in that 4-2-3-1 than they previously were in a 4-3-3.
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    Post by Black Magic Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:12 pm

    Khadrim wrote:
    BM Ale wrote:Stupidity.

    " 4-2-3-1 system these days and that is extraordinarily defensive."

    Watch a Roma match fuckface. Ale

    I thought Roma played 4-6-0. But I bow to your superior knowledge.

    But 4-2-3-1 is defensive as you have 6 players whose main job is to defend. It does give the fullbacks license to attack though.

    Totti plays the CF role but he does come deep very often. In this instance, it's Perrotta who shifts from his role and takes up Totti's, with Totti then shifting into the Trequartista position. The way Spalletti has done it, you can see he has taken a leaf from the Total Football style. I forgive you for your ignorance.

    No, Aquilani/Pizarro are the playmakers, a deep lying playmaker in Pizarro's case and a box to box midfielder for Aquilani. During some periods of games De Rossi takes up the box to box role leaving Roma without a DM. In fact, when a counter attack is on De Rossi is usually the one leading the charge.

    It really does depend on the style and tactics in which you employ to your formation. Making the "extraordinarily defensive" comment quite stupid.

    Ale


    Last edited by BM :ale: on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by SuperMario Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:15 pm

    At the 1974 WC Holland played WITHOUT any striker(s); only 2 wide attacking players; the CF position deliberately was left unoccupied. Hardly a defensive team though.
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    Post by fcb Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:32 pm

    lol!

    That article made *no* sense whatsoever.
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    Post by DeLux Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:34 pm

    Khadrim wrote:
    BM Ale wrote:Stupidity.

    " 4-2-3-1 system these days and that is extraordinarily defensive."

    Watch a Roma match fuckface. Ale

    I thought Roma played 4-6-0. But I bow to your superior knowledge.

    But 4-2-3-1 is defensive as you have 6 players whose main job is to defend. It does give the fullbacks license to attack though.

    With 4-2-3-1 the full backs have to attack more in order to support the wide midfielders.
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    Post by Hlebagone Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:43 pm

    Man Utd played a 4-4-2 (they didnt) witha 4-2-4 set up (how)...

    Also, France are not attacking. You *can't* have a more defensive mdfield than what France will employ if playing a 4-4-2.
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    Post by Allez les rouges Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:37 pm

    That piece was truly breathtaking in its cluelessness. Thanks for that Leo Laughing
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    Post by DS Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:28 pm

    4231 is quite difficult to explain and the most modern of formations when attack for eg
    Gk
    Rb/RWB-----CB--------Cb-------LB/LWB

    -------------CM/DM---CM/DLP/DM-----


    ----RWF/RW/RF--------AM/CM/SS----------LF/LW/LWF

    ----------------ST/CF/SS

    Is the basic structure which is evident but it depends on how teams use it (as with any formation)

    One angle of attack is fullbacks joining the midfield making it 2-4-3-1 which allows the wingers/wing forward to cut inside join the striker or play one two with the AM.

    One angle of attack may be that the AM joins the striker and one winger cuts in while the other gives width with one fullback joining him and the other making it back 3.

    Or at times the two DMs make a packed one above one pack and allow everyone else freedom.

    And you can go on and on.

    If we talk about how teams implement their system it could be threads.

    Its how its implemented.
    Khadrim
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    Post by Khadrim Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:32 pm

    Hlebadinho wrote:Man Utd played a 4-4-2 (they didnt) witha 4-2-4 set up (how)...

    Also, France are not attacking. You *can't* have a more defensive mdfield than what France will employ if playing a 4-4-2.

    But France have two defensive inclined midfielders in the centre. And as I think of it that would be how to counteract 4-2-3-1 as you don't lose grip of the midfield and can overload the wings.
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    Post by DS Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:35 pm

    Its not a 442 its more 3 in midfield with Malouda who is more of a LM then a winger in a 442.
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    Post by Khadrim Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:37 pm

    Incidentally despite 4-3-3 being Hollands most notable fromation I always think of Everton under Joe Royle with his Dogs of war
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    Post by Hlebagone Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:09 pm

    Khadrim wrote:
    Hlebadinho wrote:Man Utd played a 4-4-2 (they didnt) witha 4-2-4 set up (how)...

    Also, France are not attacking. You *can't* have a more defensive mdfield than what France will employ if playing a 4-4-2.

    But France have two defensive inclined midfielder in the centre. And as I think of it that would be how to counteract 4-2-3-1 as you don't lose grip of the midfield and can overload the wings.
    That was my point. FI they play wtih Makelele and Vieira, they play with a holding midfield player, and a primarily defensive midfield player who used to be box to box but now no longer has the energy.

    On the other hand, it makes France incredibly solid.
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    Post by Black Magic Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:26 am

    Khadrim wrote:
    Hlebadinho wrote:Man Utd played a 4-4-2 (they didnt) witha 4-2-4 set up (how)...

    Also, France are not attacking. You *can't* have a more defensive mdfield than what France will employ if playing a 4-4-2.

    But France have two defensive inclined midfielders in the centre. And as I think of it that would be how to counteract 4-2-3-1 as you don't lose grip of the midfield and can overload the wings.

    ok

    Juventus used those tactics against Roma this season, it worked very effectively. They also used that against Inter at the San Siro, two DM's shielded Del Piero who was playing the advanced AM role, not SS because he was coming in and collecting the ball from deep. This also benefits Wingers because the essentially have half the defensive duties they would have in a regular game, this is the main factor I think Camoranesi performed so well.

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