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    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:57 pm

    How do you see each game then?

    There's always one surprise result.

    Portugal v Germany first. Hope Portugal go through and based on performances so far, they should. Klose and Gomez are both due a patch of form though

    Croatia V Turkey - probably the least glamourous tie on paper but both have some great technically gifted players and an attacking mentality and I expect a good game.

    Holland V Russia - Another great game on paper with two very fascinating teams. I think Russia's tactics might well play into Holland's hands - they do like to get forward and neither centre back is particularly quick.

    Italy V Spain - Two huge names. sadly, one of them is italy who will likely bore me to tears. Hope Spain destroy them Ale
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:02 pm

    Tweedle wrote:

    Portugal v Germany first. Hope Portugal go through and based on performances so far, they should. Klose and Gomez are both due a patch of form though

    what's the point in having the form if you don't have the ability to start with ?

    Tweedle wrote:Croatia V Turkey - probably the least glamourous tie on paper but both have some great technically gifted players and an attacking mentality and I expect a good game

    No, that's Portugal v Germany

    Tweedle wrote:Holland V Russia - Another great game on paper with two very fascinating teams. I think Russia's tactics might well play into Holland's hands - they do like to get forward and neither centre back is particularly quick

    They both love a counter attack so it *could* be awesome.

    Holland massive favourites but maybe its destiny for Hiddink to meet Italy.

    Tweedle wrote:Italy V Spain - Two huge names. sadly, one of them is italy who will likely bore me to tears. Hope Spain destroy them Ale

    You don't like intricate passing moves ?

    Of course not, you're Arsenal - you'd rather outrun your opposition than out think and outpass them!
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    Post by Kimbo Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:05 pm

    Have we seen any intricate passing from Italy in this tournament? most of the time they just punt it into Toni. They remind me of that Graham Taylor "hit Les!" video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOVsji5dL-k&feature=related
    Pierre Littbarski
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:07 pm

    Kimbo wrote:Have we seen any intricate passing from Italy in this tournament? most of the time they just punt it into Toni. They remind me of that Graham Taylor "hit Les!" video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOVsji5dL-k&feature=related

    Yeah some great stuff from them last night (before sending off) with Pirlo/Cassano combining for Perrotta and Pirlo setting up Toni.

    Their passing is generally very neat and tidy.
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    Post by Super Progress Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:10 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:Have we seen any intricate passing from Italy in this tournament? most of the time they just punt it into Toni. They remind me of that Graham Taylor "hit Les!" video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOVsji5dL-k&feature=related

    Yeah some great stuff from them last night (before sending off) with Pirlo/Cassano combining for Perrotta and Pirlo setting up Toni.

    Their passing is generally very neat and tidy.
    I agree that Italys passing is better but it has only been in few moments in this Euros i have seen it. which is mostly due to Donadoni using Gattuso and Ambrosini. Hopefully Aquilani can take over and Cassano will do the beautiful stuff up front where he will get space against Spain.
    very much looking forward to this tie.
    The Pröfessör
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    Post by The Pröfessör Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:13 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    You don't like intricate passing moves ?

    Of course not, you're Arsenal - you'd rather outrun your opposition than out think and outpass them!


    affraid


    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=KnUgvJTE2do&feature=related
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:20 pm

    Hlebtastic wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    You don't like intricate passing moves ?

    Of course not, you're Arsenal - you'd rather outrun your opposition than out think and outpass them!


    affraid


    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=KnUgvJTE2do&feature=related

    Hardly intricate - half of them are backwards, most are obvious, there is not one reverse pass or clever change of direction, all of its on the floor no chipped/lofted or swerved passes.

    They run into space extremely well to receive the passes, that's the impressive part.
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    Post by The Pröfessör Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:20 pm

    I actually haven't seen intricate pass and move by Italy in the tournament so far. They were hardly keeping the ball against Romania in midfield, they relied a lot on crosses and corners for their chances - they reminded me a lot of Black burn in that match. And against France they were just sitting deep and playing on the counter(mostly long balls to Toni) before the red card.
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:21 pm

    Hopefully

    Portugal
    Croatia
    Spain
    & Holland

    all progress.

    If its Germany & Italy I'm not sure I'll bother watching much more. Sleep
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    Post by Z Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:23 pm

    Parks lives wrote:Hopefully

    Portugal
    Croatia
    Spain
    & Holland

    all progress.

    If its Germany & Italy I'm not sure I'll bother watching much more. Sleep

    Generally agree with that.. but a Holland vs Germany final would be awesome.
    Pierre Littbarski
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:24 pm

    Parks lives wrote:Hopefully

    Portugal
    Croatia
    Spain
    & Holland

    all progress.

    If its Germany & Italy I'm not sure I'll bother watching much more. Sleep

    Imagine how we all feel watching United in Europe !
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    Post by Parks lives Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:26 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Parks lives wrote:Hopefully

    Portugal
    Croatia
    Spain
    & Holland

    all progress.

    If its Germany & Italy I'm not sure I'll bother watching much more. Sleep

    Imagine how we all feel watching United in Europe !

    How old are you Pierre? Just out of interest.
    Deluded F*ck™
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:27 pm

    Germany
    Croatia
    Russia
    Italy

    You know it's true. Ale
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:28 pm

    Parks lives wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Parks lives wrote:Hopefully

    Portugal
    Croatia
    Spain
    & Holland

    all progress.

    If its Germany & Italy I'm not sure I'll bother watching much more. Sleep

    Imagine how we all feel watching United in Europe !

    How old are you Pierre? Just out of interest.

    28
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    Post by The Pröfessör Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:28 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Hlebtastic wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    You don't like intricate passing moves ?

    Of course not, you're Arsenal - you'd rather outrun your opposition than out think and outpass them!


    affraid


    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=KnUgvJTE2do&feature=related

    Hardly intricate - half of them are backwards, most are obvious, there is not one reverse pass or clever change of direction, all of its on the floor no chipped/lofted or swerved passes.

    .


    watch the video again and closely watch Diaby and Hleb

    Laughing
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    Post by Luis Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:36 pm

    Portugal
    Turkey
    Holland
    Spain
    Chins
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    Post by debaser Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:41 pm

    Giovani Dos Spurs™️ wrote:Germany
    Croatia
    Russia
    Italy

    You know it's true. Ale
    Would not shock me at all.
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    Post by Tweesus Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:59 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:]Italy V Spain - Two huge names. sadly, one of them is italy who will likely bore me to tears. Hope Spain destroy them Ale

    You don't like intricate passing moves ?

    Of course not, you're Arsenal - you'd rather outrun your opposition than out think and outpass them!

    Italy play at such a slow tempo that its easy to pass the ball around neatly like they have sometimes done.

    Haven't seen them produce anything near the level of Portugal, Spain, Holland or Russia yet thoough and thats not even factoring in that most of their players are c**ts.
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    Post by Bashmachkin Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:30 pm

    Portugal vs Germany - I know it has been said, but I don't think this side of the draw is that strong. None of the four teams have overwhelmed me. Portugal have been the best of the lot, but they still have a few problems - I didn't see their final game where they made lots of changes, but in their second game, their centre backs struggled from a couple of corners, their full backs have failed to get forward to add to the play, and the team still lacks a quality centre forward. I don't really see Portugal having a huge deal more quality than they've had in the past, though their midfield and wingers are excellent. Germany were poor in the group stages and look in a bit of a state - they don't look right mentally, they seem a bit like the opposite of the Netherlands - all the negative features of the team are standing out at the moment. The defence looked very slow and unsure; the central midfielders sometimes didn't see a lot of the ball - Kas's point about the play not going through them enough was very valid - but when Frings did receive the ball, his passing was poor; Gomez is looking terrible. I think the midfield battle is interesting for this game - Deco, Moutinho against Ballack and whoever partners him. Ultimately, I just feel that Germany will edge it.

    Croatia vs Turkey - I expected Turkey to get out of the group stages, they have some nice players, but even with Nihat's great strike in the last game I think they struggle to score goals, and their defence isn't great. This game is the clearest in the quarters for me - I expect Croatia to win by a couple of goals.

    Holland vs Russia - these are both teams I like a lot. I think the technique of some of the Holland players, some of the midfielders and wide players, is second to none, they can be so nice to watch. And Holland are on a roll obviously, and it has been impressive how well van Nistelrooy has lead the attack, how versatile he has been, and how well the Dutch defence has played both in defence and in attack. I've backed Russia in this tournament, and so I have to go for them to win - I think the game will actually be close, and it should be great to watch, the openness of both teams should be complementary.

    Italy vs Spain - I think the closer we get to this game, the more I will feel that Italy will take it. Spain were mixed in the group stages. My instinct is to think that their playing the two strikers is a good idea, but a number of Spanish posters, Ole and Oleguer, made some really interesting points to the contrary over the last few days - the attack looks like it struggles at times to penetrate defences, and I don't like the lack of wide players Spain have. Italy haven't been great so far, but they improved last night - De Rossi and Pirlo played better, Toni at least got into the right positions, their fullbacks attacked much better. I like Aquilani and I'd be inclined to start him once Pirlo is back, and on into the future for Italy, but I think Pirlo's absence will hurt Italy. And whilst I think that they are likely to improve as and if their tournament progresses, still I think Spain could pip them as things are, with Italy still struggling for form and missing a key player.
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    Post by Sgoater1 Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:54 pm

    Giovani Dos Spurs™️ wrote:Germany
    Croatia
    Russia
    Italy

    You know it's true. Ale

    <Ale>
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    Post by Sgoater1 Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:55 pm

    Russia 4/1 to beat Holland - fucking hell !
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    Post by Sgoater1 Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:55 pm

    Giovani Dos Spurs™️ wrote:Germany
    Croatia
    Russia
    Italy

    You know it's true. Ale

    91/1 on those 4 all winning !

    15/1 on just Russia and Italy winning !
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    Post by Calidad Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:55 am

    Bashmachkin wrote:Portugal vs Germany - I know it has been said, but I don't think this side of the draw is that strong. None of the four teams have overwhelmed me. Portugal have been the best of the lot, but they still have a few problems - I didn't see their final game where they made lots of changes, but in their second game, their centre backs struggled from a couple of corners, their full backs have failed to get forward to add to the play, and the team still lacks a quality centre forward. I don't really see Portugal having a huge deal more quality than they've had in the past, though their midfield and wingers are excellent. Germany were poor in the group stages and look in a bit of a state - they don't look right mentally, they seem a bit like the opposite of the Netherlands - all the negative features of the team are standing out at the moment. The defence looked very slow and unsure; the central midfielders sometimes didn't see a lot of the ball - Kas's point about the play not going through them enough was very valid - but when Frings did receive the ball, his passing was poor; Gomez is looking terrible. I think the midfield battle is interesting for this game - Deco, Moutinho against Ballack and whoever partners him. Ultimately, I just feel that Germany will edge it.

    Croatia vs Turkey - I expected Turkey to get out of the group stages, they have some nice players, but even with Nihat's great strike in the last game I think they struggle to score goals, and their defence isn't great. This game is the clearest in the quarters for me - I expect Croatia to win by a couple of goals.

    Holland vs Russia - these are both teams I like a lot. I think the technique of some of the Holland players, some of the midfielders and wide players, is second to none, they can be so nice to watch. And Holland are on a roll obviously, and it has been impressive how well van Nistelrooy has lead the attack, how versatile he has been, and how well the Dutch defence has played both in defence and in attack. I've backed Russia in this tournament, and so I have to go for them to win - I think the game will actually be close, and it should be great to watch, the openness of both teams should be complementary.

    Italy vs Spain - I think the closer we get to this game, the more I will feel that Italy will take it. Spain were mixed in the group stages. My instinct is to think that their playing the two strikers is a good idea, but a number of Spanish posters, Ole and Oleguer, made some really interesting points to the contrary over the last few days - the attack looks like it struggles at times to penetrate defences, and I don't like the lack of wide players Spain have. Italy haven't been great so far, but they improved last night - De Rossi and Pirlo played better, Toni at least got into the right positions, their fullbacks attacked much better. I like Aquilani and I'd be inclined to start him once Pirlo is back, and on into the future for Italy, but I think Pirlo's absence will hurt Italy. And whilst I think that they are likely to improve as and if their tournament progresses, still I think Spain could pip them as things are, with Italy still struggling for form and missing a key player.

    I predominantly agree. Portugal go in as marginal favourites, but their form hasn't been as great as some would have you believe. It's an incredibly tight one to call, but for some reason I think the German's might scrape through after a less than convincing performance.

    Turkey/Croatia is another tight one. The battle between Arda Turan and Corluka will be an interesting one. I feel Croatia will monopolise possession, and I think that will be the difference. I'm not sure Turkey will be able to deal with thier movement and fluidity either. That said, Turkey remain an enigma, and they are definitely capable of causing an upset.

    I too am looking forward to the Russia-Turkey game, and am hoping for a fast paced, exicting game. I think the Dutch will have that extra quality to make it through. Though I can see Arshavin giving Bhoularouz a torrid time. The Russian FB's who seem to play a key part in their gameplan, may have to be slightly more cautious, or they risk getting ripped apart by the likes of Robben, RVP, Kuyt on the wings. Again, I think the Dutch will monopolise the possession.

    As for the last game, I'd like Spain to go through, but I think they'll find it difficult to impose their game upon Italy. I didn't see Spain today, but Iniesta has looked off-colour this tournament, and over the past 18 months he has been a key part of Spain's success, and he will need to step up. I also feel Aragones has missed a trick not taking a winger or two, Joaquin would have been perfect for exploiting the lack of pace in the Italian side, and would have given Grosso a wretched time. As for Italy, Pirlo's loss will be huge, and I hope Aquilani can step up, because he is a player I like. Both defences have looked less than solid, and I can see Toni causing all manner of problems in the Spanish defence. Will be a very tight game IMO.

    All in all, I guess I'm sitting on the fence, I genuinely think all games are going to be very tight. Russia & Turkey I guess are in danger of getting a hiding, but I don't either will.
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    Post by bluenine Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:20 am

    Tweedle wrote:
    Italy V Spain - Two huge names. sadly, one of them is italy who will likely bore me to tears. Hope Spain destroy them Ale
    You can say a lot of uncomplimentary things about the italian performance so far, but "boring" they are not.
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    Post by Fey Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:22 am

    Calidad wrote:
    Bashmachkin wrote:Portugal vs Germany - I know it has been said, but I don't think this side of the draw is that strong. None of the four teams have overwhelmed me. Portugal have been the best of the lot, but they still have a few problems - I didn't see their final game where they made lots of changes, but in their second game, their centre backs struggled from a couple of corners, their full backs have failed to get forward to add to the play, and the team still lacks a quality centre forward. I don't really see Portugal having a huge deal more quality than they've had in the past, though their midfield and wingers are excellent. Germany were poor in the group stages and look in a bit of a state - they don't look right mentally, they seem a bit like the opposite of the Netherlands - all the negative features of the team are standing out at the moment. The defence looked very slow and unsure; the central midfielders sometimes didn't see a lot of the ball - Kas's point about the play not going through them enough was very valid - but when Frings did receive the ball, his passing was poor; Gomez is looking terrible. I think the midfield battle is interesting for this game - Deco, Moutinho against Ballack and whoever partners him. Ultimately, I just feel that Germany will edge it.

    Croatia vs Turkey - I expected Turkey to get out of the group stages, they have some nice players, but even with Nihat's great strike in the last game I think they struggle to score goals, and their defence isn't great. This game is the clearest in the quarters for me - I expect Croatia to win by a couple of goals.

    Holland vs Russia - these are both teams I like a lot. I think the technique of some of the Holland players, some of the midfielders and wide players, is second to none, they can be so nice to watch. And Holland are on a roll obviously, and it has been impressive how well van Nistelrooy has lead the attack, how versatile he has been, and how well the Dutch defence has played both in defence and in attack. I've backed Russia in this tournament, and so I have to go for them to win - I think the game will actually be close, and it should be great to watch, the openness of both teams should be complementary.

    Italy vs Spain - I think the closer we get to this game, the more I will feel that Italy will take it. Spain were mixed in the group stages. My instinct is to think that their playing the two strikers is a good idea, but a number of Spanish posters, Ole and Oleguer, made some really interesting points to the contrary over the last few days - the attack looks like it struggles at times to penetrate defences, and I don't like the lack of wide players Spain have. Italy haven't been great so far, but they improved last night - De Rossi and Pirlo played better, Toni at least got into the right positions, their fullbacks attacked much better. I like Aquilani and I'd be inclined to start him once Pirlo is back, and on into the future for Italy, but I think Pirlo's absence will hurt Italy. And whilst I think that they are likely to improve as and if their tournament progresses, still I think Spain could pip them as things are, with Italy still struggling for form and missing a key player.

    I predominantly agree. Portugal go in as marginal favourites, but their form hasn't been as great as some would have you believe. It's an incredibly tight one to call, but for some reason I think the German's might scrape through after a less than convincing performance.

    Turkey/Croatia is another tight one. The battle between Arda Turan and Corluka will be an interesting one. I feel Croatia will monopolise possession, and I think that will be the difference. I'm not sure Turkey will be able to deal with thier movement and fluidity either. That said, Turkey remain an enigma, and they are definitely capable of causing an upset.

    I too am looking forward to the Russia-Turkey game, and am hoping for a fast paced, exicting game. I think the Dutch will have that extra quality to make it through. Though I can see Arshavin giving Bhoularouz a torrid time. The Russian FB's who seem to play a key part in their gameplan, may have to be slightly more cautious, or they risk getting ripped apart by the likes of Robben, RVP, Kuyt on the wings. Again, I think the Dutch will monopolise the possession.

    As for the last game, I'd like Spain to go through, but I think they'll find it difficult to impose their game upon Italy. I didn't see Spain today, but Iniesta has looked off-colour this tournament, and over the past 18 months he has been a key part of Spain's success, and he will need to step up. I also feel Aragones has missed a trick not taking a winger or two, Joaquin would have been perfect for exploiting the lack of pace in the Italian side, and would have given Grosso a wretched time. As for Italy, Pirlo's loss will be huge, and I hope Aquilani can step up, because he is a player I like. Both defences have looked less than solid, and I can see Toni causing all manner of problems in the Spanish defence. Will be a very tight game IMO.

    All in all, I guess I'm sitting on the fence, I genuinely think all games are going to be very tight. Russia & Turkey I guess are in danger of getting a hiding, but I don't either will.

    Now I know we have a lot of Turks in this country...

    But to call us Turkey already goes a bit too far imo!
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    Post by bluenine Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:24 am

    Tweedle wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:]Italy V Spain - Two huge names. sadly, one of them is italy who will likely bore me to tears. Hope Spain destroy them Ale

    You don't like intricate passing moves ?

    Of course not, you're Arsenal - you'd rather outrun your opposition than out think and outpass them!

    Italy play at such a slow tempo that its easy to pass the ball around neatly like they have sometimes done.

    Haven't seen them produce anything near the level of Portugal, Spain, Holland or Russia yet thoough and thats not even factoring in that most of their players are c**ts.
    If its that easy, I wonder how they became world champions? Why can't other teams just copy it? Are you trying to say that teams like England cannot even do "easy" things? Razz
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    Post by Romford Pele Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:01 am

    I do like the Croats and they are a good unit but I believe alot of people are overrating them. They are notorius fast starters which could help them against the Turks who are very slow starters but we are yet to see how they react after going a goal down. They really haven't been put under serious pressure yet. This game is definitely not a foregone conclusion.
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    Post by 110% Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:37 am

    Parks lives wrote:Hopefully

    Portugal
    Croatia
    Spain
    & Holland

    all progress.

    If its Germany & Italy I'm not sure I'll bother watching much more. Sleep

    I agree although I think Italy will get better, and I'm sure we'll all watch.

    People are calling Germany and Italy based on tradition rather than form in the tournament. It is possible they will go through but it will be because knock-out matches are like that. Most likely they will try to keep the defence tight and score a goal through a set-piece, because Portugal is missing a striker and spain good wingers ultimately they might find it diffiuclt to score. I'd prefer the team that plays better football to go through but it often doesn't happen.

    For the ones saying turkey will get through, they did well in the last 15 mins versus czechs but looked very average until then, looked very poor against portugal, and won with a deflected shot against the swiss in the last minute. Only the inclusion of germany in the last 8 prevents them from being the worst team to have qualified.

    Holland-Russia could be the best game in the round.
    Roger Hunt
    Roger Hunt


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    Post by Roger Hunt Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:52 am

    Has any other qualifying group ended up with 2 quarter-finalists?

    On this basis England don't look quite such mugs for not qualifying (albeit that it was failing to beat the easy teams that meant we didn't make it).

    Portugal v Germany is a real problem - I can't work out who I dislike more.

    I have come to the conclusion that if Portugal win Ronaldo will have an even bigger head and be more likely to go to Real. So I suppose I'll have to support Portugal.
    Calidad
    Calidad


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    Post by Calidad Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:15 am

    Fey wrote:
    Calidad wrote:
    Bashmachkin wrote:Portugal vs Germany - I know it has been said, but I don't think this side of the draw is that strong. None of the four teams have overwhelmed me. Portugal have been the best of the lot, but they still have a few problems - I didn't see their final game where they made lots of changes, but in their second game, their centre backs struggled from a couple of corners, their full backs have failed to get forward to add to the play, and the team still lacks a quality centre forward. I don't really see Portugal having a huge deal more quality than they've had in the past, though their midfield and wingers are excellent. Germany were poor in the group stages and look in a bit of a state - they don't look right mentally, they seem a bit like the opposite of the Netherlands - all the negative features of the team are standing out at the moment. The defence looked very slow and unsure; the central midfielders sometimes didn't see a lot of the ball - Kas's point about the play not going through them enough was very valid - but when Frings did receive the ball, his passing was poor; Gomez is looking terrible. I think the midfield battle is interesting for this game - Deco, Moutinho against Ballack and whoever partners him. Ultimately, I just feel that Germany will edge it.

    Croatia vs Turkey - I expected Turkey to get out of the group stages, they have some nice players, but even with Nihat's great strike in the last game I think they struggle to score goals, and their defence isn't great. This game is the clearest in the quarters for me - I expect Croatia to win by a couple of goals.

    Holland vs Russia - these are both teams I like a lot. I think the technique of some of the Holland players, some of the midfielders and wide players, is second to none, they can be so nice to watch. And Holland are on a roll obviously, and it has been impressive how well van Nistelrooy has lead the attack, how versatile he has been, and how well the Dutch defence has played both in defence and in attack. I've backed Russia in this tournament, and so I have to go for them to win - I think the game will actually be close, and it should be great to watch, the openness of both teams should be complementary.

    Italy vs Spain - I think the closer we get to this game, the more I will feel that Italy will take it. Spain were mixed in the group stages. My instinct is to think that their playing the two strikers is a good idea, but a number of Spanish posters, Ole and Oleguer, made some really interesting points to the contrary over the last few days - the attack looks like it struggles at times to penetrate defences, and I don't like the lack of wide players Spain have. Italy haven't been great so far, but they improved last night - De Rossi and Pirlo played better, Toni at least got into the right positions, their fullbacks attacked much better. I like Aquilani and I'd be inclined to start him once Pirlo is back, and on into the future for Italy, but I think Pirlo's absence will hurt Italy. And whilst I think that they are likely to improve as and if their tournament progresses, still I think Spain could pip them as things are, with Italy still struggling for form and missing a key player.

    I predominantly agree. Portugal go in as marginal favourites, but their form hasn't been as great as some would have you believe. It's an incredibly tight one to call, but for some reason I think the German's might scrape through after a less than convincing performance.

    Turkey/Croatia is another tight one. The battle between Arda Turan and Corluka will be an interesting one. I feel Croatia will monopolise possession, and I think that will be the difference. I'm not sure Turkey will be able to deal with thier movement and fluidity either. That said, Turkey remain an enigma, and they are definitely capable of causing an upset.

    I too am looking forward to the Russia-Turkey game, and am hoping for a fast paced, exicting game. I think the Dutch will have that extra quality to make it through. Though I can see Arshavin giving Bhoularouz a torrid time. The Russian FB's who seem to play a key part in their gameplan, may have to be slightly more cautious, or they risk getting ripped apart by the likes of Robben, RVP, Kuyt on the wings. Again, I think the Dutch will monopolise the possession.

    As for the last game, I'd like Spain to go through, but I think they'll find it difficult to impose their game upon Italy. I didn't see Spain today, but Iniesta has looked off-colour this tournament, and over the past 18 months he has been a key part of Spain's success, and he will need to step up. I also feel Aragones has missed a trick not taking a winger or two, Joaquin would have been perfect for exploiting the lack of pace in the Italian side, and would have given Grosso a wretched time. As for Italy, Pirlo's loss will be huge, and I hope Aquilani can step up, because he is a player I like. Both defences have looked less than solid, and I can see Toni causing all manner of problems in the Spanish defence. Will be a very tight game IMO.

    All in all, I guess I'm sitting on the fence, I genuinely think all games are going to be very tight. Russia & Turkey I guess are in danger of getting a hiding, but I don't either will.

    Now I know we have a lot of Turks in this country...

    But to call us Turkey already goes a bit too far imo!

    perhaps morocco instead?

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