Weather Conditions

EMP wrote:Several years ago it was claimed black players didn't like the cold and couldn't play in the cold - Ron Noades for example. Now the same is being levelled at foreigners. Is there really that much difference between temperatures in Egypt and Greece, Italy or Spain for example.

Why does nobody say that Jose Antonio Reyes didn't perform at Arsenal because he couldn't stand the cold? And what about Torres or Samaras. No mention of Mediterranean sun and cold of England affecting them, so why Zaki? He may lose form, but why should that be reason? And why is this not lrevelled at Essien, Kanu and Drogba - each of whom were born in far hotter climates? Why hasn't the cold weather etc. affected them?

EMP wrote:@ Bash Not disputing that, but why is it applied to Zaki and not thrown at Torres, Fabregas, Drogba, etc.

Regarding the Europeans winning abroad Italy wasn't far away in 1994 and nor was the Netherlands in 1978 and Czechoslovakia in 1962. Italy in 1970 and West Germany in 1986. All were beaten finalists. Argentina reached the final in Italy. Brazil in 1998. They won in South Korea as well.

They didn't win but came closer than would be expected if it was such a big factor.

EMP wrote:Also African players regularly play at top level in Scandinavia - in colder climates than the north of England. How come it doesn't seem to affect them?

110% wrote:Drogba, essien etc did play in france before so had played through northern european-type winters before.

With torres very few people thought he'd make it anyway. If he had started off scoring a lot of goals in in his few games, then people would be asking "will he keep it up over winter?" Instead he was played sparingly to get him settled in, and injured a bit if I remember correctly and so on.

110% wrote:Drogba, essien etc did play in france before so had played through northern european-type winters before.

With torres very few people thought he'd make it anyway. If he had started off scoring a lot of goals in in his few games, then people would be asking "will he keep it up over winter?" Instead he was played sparingly to get him settled in, and injured a bit if I remember correctly and so on.

kas wrote:For me, it's not just the cold. The crucial change is that while most leagues ease up or have a break during December/January, that is in fact England's busiest period, with games coming every 3 days, sometimes even 2 days in order to squeeze in the traditional Boxing Day and New Year matches.

So it's a combination of extreme fixture congestion, and bad weather, that makes me use this "let's see how they do at Bolton on a rainy Wednesday night in December" cliche for certain players. And yes, I have it in mind for Zaki as well. Like others pointed out, most of those other players above have at least played in other European countries before going to England.

As for Reyes, there's no doubt at all the weather affected him. He mainly didn't succeed due to homesickness, and weather is obviously a part of that.

Axeslammer wrote:Ronaldo and Romario have gone on record to say that the (winter)weather in Holland hampered their performances...

....and IMO that's not something to be surprised about...

Why are you so adamant that the weather can't influence someone's performance EMP ?

I'm not. I'm questioning why it seems to be applied to Zaki in particular without being applied to others from hot climates equally, or in some cases from even hotter climates.


In Holland we've even gone so far as to classify people into evening and afternoon players...

Not surprising that your biorhythm has an effect on your performances.

And the winter / fall performances don't necessarily have to do with the weather (cold, rain) per se, but might also be because of the lack of light. Apparently loads and loads of people suffer from winter depression, which can be (partly) countered by light therapy.

The scary thing is : I'm not kidding

...and that's just for the natives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder

It is highly speculative, but my guess is that people from farther down south will have a higher percentage affected by this.

As usual for me it's the other way around : I *love* the winter, *hate* hot climates and am more of a night owl than an early bird

EMP wrote:

110% wrote:Drogba, essien etc did play in france before so had played through northern european-type winters before.

With torres very few people thought he'd make it anyway. If he had started off scoring a lot of goals in in his few games, then people would be asking "will he keep it up over winter?" Instead he was played sparingly to get him settled in, and injured a bit if I remember correctly and so on.

I meant in their first season in England or northern Europe if you prefer. I don't recall this being thrown at them in Europe. Also was this ever thrown at Mido in the Netherlands and has it been thrown at Shawky.

If not Torres, any Spaniard or Italian, or Brasilian, etc. It seems to be thrown at blacks afirst and then Africans, Why? Surely it applies to anywhere the sun shines brightly or not at all.

debaser wrote: I don't really get what you're arguing...just seems you're being over-sensitive to Zaki because he's a particular favourite.

EMP wrote:Matches have been called off due to water-logged pitches - rain or frozen - snow rather than it being too cold, without rain and snow that doesn't happen, so rain is more important.

EMP wrote:Also mud baths come from rain which affect teams with passing game - temperature doesn't.

EMP wrote:Weather is small part. Of course they will have preferences, but I still say that football reasons and tactics are more likely to affect players than eweather. After all, weather will be same for both teams and now you will have to look pretty hard to find a team that won't have a player affected by weather according to you, so it will even up and tactics and adapting game to needs will be more important.

debaser wrote:

EMP wrote:Matches have been called off due to water-logged pitches - rain or frozen - snow rather than it being too cold, without rain and snow that doesn't happen, so rain is more important.

We're talking about how conditions may affect an individual player, not how they affect whether a game can go ahead. Clearly heavy rain or snow is more likely to cause cancellation, but I am saying that playing football in much colder temperature than they are used to is probably a bigger adjustment for an individual player - as temperature affects you physically more than rain

EMP wrote:Also mud baths come from rain which affect teams with passing game - temperature doesn't.

Fair point. But this is more whole team effects than individuals.

EMP wrote:Weather is small part. Of course they will have preferences, but I still say that football reasons and tactics are more likely to affect players than eweather. After all, weather will be same for both teams and now you will have to look pretty hard to find a team that won't have a player affected by weather according to you, so it will even up and tactics and adapting game to needs will be more important.

I'm not saying weather is the most important thing, or anything like that, just that for some players adjusting to different climate can affect their form - which is why I don't find it unreasonable for people to suggest Elano or Reyes suffered from this, or to speculate that Zaki might - Zaki's only being picked on because he's in such good form! If he wasn't scoring no-one would mention it - anyone who's doing well, people try and find a way to knock them.

EMP wrote:@ Bash Not disputing that, but why is it applied to Zaki and not thrown at Torres, Fabregas, Drogba, etc.

Regarding the Europeans winning abroad Italy wasn't far away in 1994 and nor was the Netherlands in 1978 and Czechoslovakia in 1962. Italy in 1970 and West Germany in 1986. All were beaten finalists. Argentina reached the final in Italy. Brazil in 1998. They won in South Korea as well.

They didn't win but came closer than would be expected if it was such a big factor.