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There weren't many surprises and the majority of the big guns already qualified prior the last game. So is there any point playing these group stages? How about doing like good old times?
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Deluded F*ck™
Bashmachkin
L.r.d
SuperMario
Murray
Black Magic
Fey
Riviera
Super Progress
Jaime
BoBo Vieri 32
bluenine
Ricardo Jol
Football Genius
TM
Yef
Axeslammer
A & K
22 posters
Should the group stage be abolished?
A & K- Number of posts : 3347
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Axeslammer- Number of posts : 19690
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Alive and Kicking wrote:There weren't many surprises and the majority of the big guns already qualified prior the last game. So is there any point playing these group stages? How about doing like good old times?
* only knockout
* no seeding
* just the champions
.....would be an awesome tournament
Yef- Number of posts : 2619
Registration date : 2008-02-27
Alive and Kicking wrote:There weren't many surprises and the majority of the big guns already qualified prior the last game. So is there any point playing these group stages? How about doing like good old times?
It's ridiculous tbh, even for the likes lyon, Porto for whom the second phase will be the end.
They should make it harder for rich clubs...not easier ffs! Last 5 years the CL went down in quality!
Make it for champs again, stop with all those weird seeding qualifying pots things...
But UEFA will never do a thing to improve football, they could learn a lot from the Americans when it comes to organising competitions.
TM- Number of posts : 21218
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Yef wrote:Alive and Kicking wrote:There weren't many surprises and the majority of the big guns already qualified prior the last game. So is there any point playing these group stages? How about doing like good old times?
It's ridiculous tbh, even for the likes lyon, Porto for whom the second phase will be the end.
They should make it harder for rich clubs...not easier ffs! Last 5 years the CL went down in quality!
Make it for champs again, stop with all those weird seeding qualifying pots things...
But UEFA will never do a thing to improve football, they could learn a lot from the Americans when it comes to organising competitions.
It's become a borefest.
Get rid of the group stages, and replace it with 2 legged fixtures. And make Second round, QF, SF games one legged at a neutral venue
Football Genius- Number of posts : 7743
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For purely sporting purposes getting rid of the group stages would be ideal, however the group stages were designed to guarantee a certain amount of games for the qualified teams, thus a certain amount of guaranteed revenue for the clubs involved...
This of course benefits all teams, the smaller clubs that qualify get a secure income from the ECL which of course will be good for them, however as we all know, a league format generally results in the better teams on top which has given this format the same old faces come the knockout stages...
Sadly, money speaks louder these days, and i can't see the group stage format changing anytime soon.
This of course benefits all teams, the smaller clubs that qualify get a secure income from the ECL which of course will be good for them, however as we all know, a league format generally results in the better teams on top which has given this format the same old faces come the knockout stages...
Sadly, money speaks louder these days, and i can't see the group stage format changing anytime soon.
Ricardo Jol- Number of posts : 12766
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We ALL knew it ages ago this would happen. the competition is DEAD!
Perhaps the credit crisis makes the richer teams less rich which means we can welcome back the competition
Perhaps the credit crisis makes the richer teams less rich which means we can welcome back the competition
bluenine- Number of posts : 22998
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The group stages actually ensure that the small clubs make a good amount of money. If you take this stage away, the smaller clubs will suffer as they will end up making less money on an average.
I say, keep the group stages. Just have quarter finals after that, with only the top team qualifying!!! That would make the competition very interesting. Maybe have a group stage in quarters as well, coz that will most likely have 8 top teams. All games will be very competitive.
However, changes are unlikely. The CL has been growing enormously as a brand in the last 10-15 years, and UEFA will be silly to change that. Lets face it, the competition is much much bigger now than it was in its original "pure" form.
I say, keep the group stages. Just have quarter finals after that, with only the top team qualifying!!! That would make the competition very interesting. Maybe have a group stage in quarters as well, coz that will most likely have 8 top teams. All games will be very competitive.
However, changes are unlikely. The CL has been growing enormously as a brand in the last 10-15 years, and UEFA will be silly to change that. Lets face it, the competition is much much bigger now than it was in its original "pure" form.
BoBo Vieri 32- Number of posts : 10187
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I say bring back the 2nd group stage.
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
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bluenine wrote:The group stages actually ensure that the small clubs make a good amount of money. If you take this stage away, the smaller clubs will suffer as they will end up making less money on an average.
I say, keep the group stages. Just have quarter finals after that, with only the top team qualifying!!! That would make the competition very interesting. Maybe have a group stage in quarters as well, coz that will most likely have 8 top teams. All games will be very competitive.
However, changes are unlikely. The CL has been growing enormously as a brand in the last 10-15 years, and UEFA will be silly to change that. Lets face it, the competition is much much bigger now than it was in its original "pure" form.
I think the problem isn't so much the group stage but the number of teams. Why do we need 32 teams? It's just another example of the competition being watered down because it's more profitable to expand the number of teams. Group stages used to produce some really good games.
But I agree it would be great to make it only for Champions. And it would be great to have a more high profile UEFA Cup...and bring back the Cup Winners Cup FFS and reinstate the 3 foreign player rule. Basically, bring back football from the early to mid 90s.
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
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BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:I say bring back the 2nd group stage.
Riviera- Number of posts : 5411
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I think every country should have just as many teams in for the qualifications,
oh and no seedings!
oh and no seedings!
Axeslammer- Number of posts : 19690
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Jaime wrote:
But I agree it would be great to make it only for Champions. And it would be great to have a more high profile UEFA Cup...and bring back the Cup Winners Cup FFS and reinstate the 3 foreign player rule. Basically, bring back football from the early to mid 90s.
Fey- Number of posts : 35349
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Axeslammer wrote:Jaime wrote:
But I agree it would be great to make it only for Champions. And it would be great to have a more high profile UEFA Cup...and bring back the Cup Winners Cup FFS and reinstate the 3 foreign player rule. Basically, bring back football from the early to mid 90s.
Groningen were still in the 2nd league back then
Black Magic- Number of posts : 7514
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Only for Champions? F*ck that. I don't want to see the likes of PSV in there instead of say, Madrid or Chelsea.
TM- Number of posts : 21218
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Black Magic wrote:Only for Champions? F*ck that. I don't want to see the likes of PSV, Roma and Arsenal in there instead of say, Madrid or Chelsea.
Black Magic- Number of posts : 7514
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Arsenal and Roma aren't gonna be Champions of their respective league in the near future you dickhead. It would basically be Inter, United, Barca, PSV, Lyon and the other dross that win their leagues in Europe.
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
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Ehm Real is two time champions and we tend to win our league. also it is not unlikely that Chelsea will win their league either at all.Black Magic wrote:Arsenal and Roma aren't gonna be Champions of their respective league in the near future you dickhead. It would basically be Inter, United, Barca, PSV, Lyon and the other dross that win their leagues in Europe.
either way i like the idea of keeping the Champions league for champions however i would rather go for a Top 2 in the leagues and perhaps cut it down to a 4 group phase instead. would make the Uefa cup much better aswell i think.
Black Magic- Number of posts : 7514
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The teams aren't set in stone, there will be a slight rotation between a few teams in each league. My point remains the same though that there will always be major teams missing out.
BoBo Vieri 32- Number of posts : 10187
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Super Madrid wrote:Ehm Real is two time champions and we tend to win our league. also it is not unlikely that Chelsea will win their league either at all.Black Magic wrote:Arsenal and Roma aren't gonna be Champions of their respective league in the near future you dickhead. It would basically be Inter, United, Barca, PSV, Lyon and the other dross that win their leagues in Europe.
either way i like the idea of keeping the Champions league for champions however i would rather go for a Top 2 in the leagues and perhaps cut it down to a 4 group phase instead. would make the Uefa cup much better aswell i think.
That was how it was from 97-99, except it was a 6 group phase with the 1st place team qualifying plus the 2 best runner ups. It was quite good then, and like you said the UEFA cup had much better teams in it.
Fey- Number of posts : 35349
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Since Roma went to the CL it all went downhill...
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
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yes they will miss out on CL but will go to Uefa cup. if it was changed we would have more quality teams in Uefa cup. it would make the CL more exclusive imo.Black Magic wrote:The teams aren't set in stone, there will be a slight rotation between a few teams in each league. My point remains the same though that there will always be major teams missing out.
it could also be made so that only cup winners,league winners,Uefa Cup winners could get it. that would make the cups,uefa cup even better aswell. just a suggestion.
Black Magic- Number of posts : 7514
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And an interesting suggestion at that. Of course, teams would need to start caring about the Uefa Cup.
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
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Well just by having good teams in the uefa cup other teams will care. also people want to see big teams and the Uefa cup might not be that different on a level from Cl which would fastly attract tv money. for tv money alone teams will care.Black Magic wrote:And an interesting suggestion at that. Of course, teams would need to start caring about the Uefa Cup.
we could also go america and get wildcards for the Cl. Sunderland in the CL
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bluenine- Number of posts : 22998
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I think Platini had some bright ideas... specially about reducing the number of teams from big leagues in the CL, and instead giving those spots to the Cup winners. I hope he implements them, I know he faces a huge battle with the top leagues on that one.
I like Super Madrids idea of UEFA Cup winners getting a direct berth in the CL next year. Its important to raise the worth/prestige of the UEFA Cup and the domestic cups...
Hopefully the Europa Cup will increase the money in that competition, that would be a good start.
I like Super Madrids idea of UEFA Cup winners getting a direct berth in the CL next year. Its important to raise the worth/prestige of the UEFA Cup and the domestic cups...
Hopefully the Europa Cup will increase the money in that competition, that would be a good start.
Murray- Number of posts : 10247
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How about no seedings in the group stage. There would be at least one group of death which would be much more interesting than the borefest of the last few seasons.
SuperMario- Number of posts : 16866
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I want the knock out stages abolished. Put all the clubs in 1 huge group says I.
L.r.d- Number of posts : 5614
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De Guzman wrote:I want the knock out stages abolished. Put all the clubs in 1 huge group says I.
Worth a try, but super moments would be gone. dramatic penalty shoot outs etc.
Jaime- Number of posts : 32027
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Murray wrote:How about no seedings in the group stage. There would be at least one group of death which would be much more interesting than the borefest of the last few seasons.
SuperMario- Number of posts : 16866
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I've a solution for that. All matches are played as Cup ties. You can do that in the normal league too.L.r.d wrote:De Guzman wrote:I want the knock out stages abolished. Put all the clubs in 1 huge group says I.
Worth a try, but super moments would be gone. dramatic penalty shoot outs etc.
After you play a team at home/away, next round you play them away/home. Cup rules apply, so extra time & penalty shoot outs. So every other league match you can have extra time/penalties.
You get normal points for each won/drawn match & can earn a bonus point for winning a KO-tie.
Bashmachkin- Number of posts : 2374
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It is at the point now where the top clubs from the big leagues have so much Champions League experience, and such big squads, that they're able to get through the CL group stages without even putting in a huge deal of effort. So the group stages are uninspiring, and the same teams, by and large, qualify for the knockout stages, and it makes for a pretty dull competition.
I'm not particularly for giving CL places to domestic cup winners - I guess that move would result in some funny teams qualifying, which mightn't prove worthwhile; or else, if it did encourage the bigger clubs to focus more on domestic cup competitions, then the risk of player fatigue (which arguably damages the later stages of the competition already, and which damages any summer competition too) would increase. Nor am I for making the competition for champions only - football is already too pragmatic, champions are often pragmatic teams, and I agree with BM's point that often, the more entertaining or unique teams aren't those who win their domestic championships.
On the other hand, and on the issue of money, if there were fewer clubs in the CL then clubs from smaller nations who did qualify could take a greater allocation of CL funds - though obviously, in the long term, the money available depends on the popularity of the competition and on the popularity of football as a whole, and there's an argument that this would diminish if the big teams weren't in the CL every year.
Maybe, keeping the route to the CL broadly the same, it would help to just tweak the way CL money is allocated at the moment. I found this article, which details how CL money was shared in 2006/07 (there may be something more up to date on this - I didn't find anything after a very brief search):
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=16384/newsid=559777.html
Now, in 2006/07, clubs received €5.4 million for participating in the group stages of the CL. Group stage victories were worth €600,000 and draws were worth €300,000 - and here, I wonder if it's worth scrapping those prizes, and just sharing that €600,000 pot between teams. In that way, BATE, for instance - who might end the group stages this season with just two points, two draws earning them £600,000 - would instead have received €1.8 million, which is decent extra money. It would be a step.
More, I think you could significantly reduce the prize money offered for getting to the later stages of the competition, and share that money more evenly amongst all CL participants. National champions who didn't reach the group stages of the competition only received €160,000 in 06/07.
Back to the football, I think a knockout-only CL would be most entertaining - but in such a competition, fortune would play a bigger part. If we want to ensure the best team wins the competition, then I think turning the competition into one big league would be the way to go - but this would also potentially lead to pragmatic and dull football. So, along with changing the way CL money is allocated, I go with Murray's suggestion - make the group stages unseeded, so that the big teams have to play each other earlier.
I'm not particularly for giving CL places to domestic cup winners - I guess that move would result in some funny teams qualifying, which mightn't prove worthwhile; or else, if it did encourage the bigger clubs to focus more on domestic cup competitions, then the risk of player fatigue (which arguably damages the later stages of the competition already, and which damages any summer competition too) would increase. Nor am I for making the competition for champions only - football is already too pragmatic, champions are often pragmatic teams, and I agree with BM's point that often, the more entertaining or unique teams aren't those who win their domestic championships.
On the other hand, and on the issue of money, if there were fewer clubs in the CL then clubs from smaller nations who did qualify could take a greater allocation of CL funds - though obviously, in the long term, the money available depends on the popularity of the competition and on the popularity of football as a whole, and there's an argument that this would diminish if the big teams weren't in the CL every year.
Maybe, keeping the route to the CL broadly the same, it would help to just tweak the way CL money is allocated at the moment. I found this article, which details how CL money was shared in 2006/07 (there may be something more up to date on this - I didn't find anything after a very brief search):
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=16384/newsid=559777.html
Now, in 2006/07, clubs received €5.4 million for participating in the group stages of the CL. Group stage victories were worth €600,000 and draws were worth €300,000 - and here, I wonder if it's worth scrapping those prizes, and just sharing that €600,000 pot between teams. In that way, BATE, for instance - who might end the group stages this season with just two points, two draws earning them £600,000 - would instead have received €1.8 million, which is decent extra money. It would be a step.
More, I think you could significantly reduce the prize money offered for getting to the later stages of the competition, and share that money more evenly amongst all CL participants. National champions who didn't reach the group stages of the competition only received €160,000 in 06/07.
Back to the football, I think a knockout-only CL would be most entertaining - but in such a competition, fortune would play a bigger part. If we want to ensure the best team wins the competition, then I think turning the competition into one big league would be the way to go - but this would also potentially lead to pragmatic and dull football. So, along with changing the way CL money is allocated, I go with Murray's suggestion - make the group stages unseeded, so that the big teams have to play each other earlier.
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