Times insults Liverpool/Spurs Germans

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article5703041.ece

these are the BEST , the top 50 Liverpool players OF ALL TIME

according to the Times

whereas DIDI Hamann is put on 26th , Carragher makes the top 10

and where the FUCK is Babbel on that list

and what about Ziege and Riedle ??



and is Gerrard REALLY the SECOND best of ALL TIME ?

preposterous, me thinks

Ian Rush is a bit low in 11th!?

Plus as great as Dalglish was I don't think he comes as high in the best players of all time as they make out -

'So where does he rank on a wider scale? In football history? Well, there's Maradona, who is another in a category of one. After Maradona comes a group - Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer. In global terms, Dalglish is in the rank below. Briefly - between the decline of Cruyff and the emergence of Maradona - the Scot was the best player in the world. It wasn't just his own individual ability, but he had that knack of improving the performance of all his team-mates. There was no selfish streak in the man, unlike some lesser, self-centred, so-called greats.'

With a team centred round Kevin Keegan, Liverpool won their first ever European trophy (the UEFA Cup in 1973), then their first European Cup four years later. Keegan should be higher on the list - from the list, I'd rate only Dalglish alongside him.

On another note, the Times' website is layed out dreadfully. I shouldn't have to click through thirteen pages should I want to read the whole list. It is such a cluttered website - the actual text you're there to read is given too little space.

There is a funny article in the Liverpool section of the site, by the same guy who produced the '50 greatest' list, with the subject: 'Why Steven Gerrard struggles to have the complete love of the Kop'. The reason as to why the Kop struggle to love him completely, the writer says, is essentially because there is and has always been a touch of arrogance and self-centredness about Gerrard; but the Liverpool fans are slowly coming round because he is more likeable and sympathetic now, after his arrest! He deserves to be number two on the 'greatest' list, says the writer, because he's good at grabbing late goals.

I got increasingly angry reading the list until I got to the last page and there was his name:

John Barnes

Spanky, perhaps the best way to describe Dalglish is that he was the best player in the best team in the world for a decade. He just didn't have a world cup to showcase himself in the way that Maradona or Pele did.

Parks lives wrote:

Plus as great as Dalglish was I don't think he comes as high in the best players of all time as they make out

I dunno...

He was the heartbeat of the best domestic european team in the early-mid 80s. I personally thought he was a phenomenal player. Definately the best player I've seen domestically.

Has there ever been a terrible German footballer?

Sean Dundee didn't make the list.

Where's Glenn Hysen?

Glenny Dalglish wrote:I got increasingly angry reading the list until I got to the last page and there was his name:

John Barnes

Spanky, perhaps the best way to describe Dalglish is that he was the best player in the best team in the world for a decade. He just didn't have a world cup to showcase himself in the way that Maradona or Pele did.

Neither did Di Stefanio or George Best have great National teams like Pele or Maradona to display their talent for all the world to see, most of their great achievements come with their club sides as well. Both players I think most people would rate higher than Dalglish.

Parks lives wrote:

Glenny Dalglish wrote:I got increasingly angry reading the list until I got to the last page and there was his name:

John Barnes

Spanky, perhaps the best way to describe Dalglish is that he was the best player in the best team in the world for a decade. He just didn't have a world cup to showcase himself in the way that Maradona or Pele did.

Neither did Di Stefanio or George Best have great National teams like Pele or Maradona to display their talent for all the world to see, most of their great achievements come with their club sides as well. Both players I think most people would rate higher than Dalglish.

I knew you were going to mention George Best! Best was famous as much for his playboy lifestyle as he was as a footballer, he was a celebrity and is also regarded as someone who wasted his incredible talent and achieved far less than he should have done. He would probably be in the tier below the likes of Pele, Cruyff and Beckenbauer too. He certainly wasn't one of the top 50 Liverpool players.

George Best V Kenny Dalglish would be a good poll

Dalglish is number 25 in the Association of Football Statisticians list of the World's 100 Greatest Footballers

1 Pele (Brazil)
2 Ronaldo (Brazil)
3 Romario (Brazil)
4 Luis Figo (Portugal)
5 Zinedine Zidane (France)
6 Diego Maradona (Argentina)
7 Lothar Matthaus (Germany)
8 Gerd Muller (Germany)
9 Franz Beckenbauer (Germany)
10Cafu (Brazil)
11Roberto Carlos (Brazil)
12Marco van Basten (Holland)
13Michel Platini (France)
14Rivaldo (Brazil)
15Paolo Maldini (Italy)
16Zico (Brazil)
17Raul (Spain)
18Ruud Gullit (Holland)
19Eusebio (Portugal)
20Ferenc Puskas (Hungary)
21Johan Cruyff (Holland)
22Alfredo di Stefano (Argentina)
23Bobby Charlton (England)
24Jurgen Klinsmann (Germany)
25Kenny Dalglish (Scotland)

Best didn't make the top 100.

Raul higher than him

I've never really thought about it before but personally I'd say that Dalglish is probably about 10th-20th in my all time footballer list. Best doesn't make my top 50

Thats a really good list Glenda, Cruyff in 21st, Di Stefano in 22nd....

Tweedle wrote:Raul higher than him

I've never really thought about it before but personally I'd say that Dalglish is probably about 10th-20th in my all time footballer list.

Thats where I'd have Dalglish as well, 10-20th. Tho nearer 20th.

Behind the likes of Cruyff, Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Zidane, Di Sefano, Best and a few others.

it's not my list Spanky. I don't know what the credentials are and I'm guessing that modern players are a bit high on the list, same as when there is a list of best albums ever there's always someone like the Arctic Monkeys or The Ting Tings in there.

But if you pick the top 50 footballers ever, you're going to have some disagreements, but largely the right players will be there, if not in the right order.

Why are you talking about ranking players you are clearly not old enough to know about?

These lists are pointless.

who is United's greatest ever player? Jackie Charlton? Bobby Moore? Jeff Shreaves?

& turn this into another Liverpool/Man United thread.

Parks lives wrote:& turn this into another Liverpool/Man United thread.

you starting slinging George Best into the mix and suggesting that Dalglish was overrated. The World doesn't agree with you and suddenly the conversation is beneath you. Look at yourself!

Look

at

your

self

Tweedle agrees with me, he should be in between 10-20th we just have different players in front of him.

I agree with Six, I hate ranking players I never saw, whenever they ask what's the greatest XI, or players in Spurs' history, I can only judge what I've seen on a regular basis i.e. 1992 onwards, as such for me Liverpool's would be:

--------------------------Reina

Babel-----------Carragher---Hyypia---------Riise

McManaman----Hamman-----Gerrard-------Barnes

-----------------Collymore------Fowler




Man Utd's:

-----------------Schmeichel

G.Neville------Rio--------Stam--------Irwin

Kanchelskis----Ince-----Scholes------Giggs

-----------------Dwight & Andy.


Many would ask about Keane, Becks, RVN, Ole etc, but those were my favourite to watch.

do you remember Rob Jones TS? He might have been a bit before your time, he was my favourite Liverpool right-back, after Veggard Heggem of course.

I don't think many Liverpool fans will remember Collymore with too much fondness, like Cisse he was unplayable on his day but his days were few and far between.

If you like Didi Haman you would have loved Ronnie Whelan.

I like your United team, although I prefer Evra over Irwin.

On ITV4 they show the Big Match games from the 80s now and again and normally Liverpool is the feature game so you can get to see extended highlights of Dalglish by watching that when its on.

Glenny Dalglish wrote:do you remember Rob Jones TS? He might have been a bit before your time, he was my favourite Liverpool right-back, after Veggard Heggem of course.

I don't think many Liverpool fans will remember Collymore with too much fondness, like Cisse he was unplayable on his day but his days were few and far between.

If you like Didi Haman you would have loved Ronnie Whelan.

I like your United team, although I prefer Evra over Irwin.

Yep I do, but He was kind of run-of the mill for me from what I fremember, not bad not great, just a standard RB.

I also remember Stinge Inge Bjornebie (sp?) thought he was more inconsistent than Jones. Markus Babel was a very classy player, shame he contracted cripplitis or whatever it was.

I only caught Ronnie Whealan towards the tail end of his career, I never got to see the best of him, you could say the same for Barnes, but even in his later years he just oozed class.

I culd put Owen in for Stan the Man, but when he turned it on, there wasn't a better player in England (apart from Cantona).

If it were next year, or 18 months I'd have Evra over Irwin too.

Bjornebye was gash, he was part of the Graeme Souness turn the best team in the world into a bunch of injury prone no hopers.

Rob Jones was far from run of the mill, he probably would have been England's first choice right back for years had it not been for his injury, he retired in his mid twenties thanks to recurring knee and back problems, not a fun cocktail!

Maybe I'm romantasising, but he was 21 when he made the England squad for Euro92 ahead of seasoned pro's in the prime like Lee Dixon and Keith Curle. He missed out thanks to shin splints and injury seemed to plague him for the rest of his career. Definitely say he was comparable in quality and luck with Ledley King.

We've got a few of these unfulfilled potentials in recent seasons, Collymore, Redknapp, David James, Robbie Fowler even.

Glenny Dalglish wrote:Dalglish is number 25 in the Association of Football Statisticians list of the World's 100 Greatest Footballers

1 Pele (Brazil)
2 Ronaldo (Brazil)
3 Romario (Brazil)
4 Luis Figo (Portugal)
5 Zinedine Zidane (France)
6 Diego Maradona (Argentina)
7 Lothar Matthaus (Germany)
8 Gerd Muller (Germany)
9 Franz Beckenbauer (Germany)
10Cafu (Brazil)
11Roberto Carlos (Brazil)
12Marco van Basten (Holland)
13Michel Platini (France)
14Rivaldo (Brazil)
15Paolo Maldini (Italy)
16Zico (Brazil)
17Raul (Spain)
18Ruud Gullit (Holland)
19Eusebio (Portugal)
20Ferenc Puskas (Hungary)
21Johan Cruyff (Holland)
22Alfredo di Stefano (Argentina)
23Bobby Charlton (England)
24Jurgen Klinsmann (Germany)
25Kenny Dalglish (Scotland)

Best didn't make the top 100.

I cant see the Goat

Sgoater1 wrote: I cant see the Goat

Just close your eyes. He'll visit you in your dreams

That list is weird anyway. Figo ahead of Maradona? Cruyff 13 places behind Gerd Muller? Tony Daley completely absent? You cannae measure the worth of players wholly in stats.

And where the fuck is Winston Bogarde?