Ferguson predicts Benitez spree

Parks lives wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

How did Ferguson overtake Liverpool? The situation was very similar to that now, even if it was a long time ago now.

Remember, both Ferguson and Benítez arrived aged 44, and inherited squads that had averaged 4th over the previous four seasons, and finished 4th the season before they arrived. All the fours, then!

It's not the same at all. 4th back then didn't automatically mean Champions league football like it does now and come with all the financial revenue stream it does today.

I'm not going to even read Tomkins article, you only have to look at the title and his picture to realise what a berk the guy is. Plus I'm sure you'd all wet yourself if we got a MUTV journalist's point of view to back up our arguments that Rafa was an ordinary manager.

The money card Rafa uses will always be ridiculous, because he spends as well as anyone. Even if you were to nitpick and prove he was the 3rd biggest spender in his time. The fact he's never came above 3rd should prove his use of his squad hasn't been that exceptional.

You think Benitez is average?

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:in the 80's, pre Fergle they finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th.

Won the FA Cup in 83 and 85, won the league cup in 84 plus the Semis of Cup Winners Cup.

But apart from that he built them up from nothing

So 3 cups in 7 years..no title..and no final in any european competition...no even second place...hardly a top team

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:in the 80's, pre Fergle they finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th.

Won the FA Cup in 83 and 85, won the league cup in 84 plus the Semis of Cup Winners Cup.

But apart from that he built them up from nothing

He had to get rid of a few of those players from that squad as they were pissheads, namely Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath. Two of the best players in the previous seasons.

1 step back to take two steps forwards.

Took a while but we got there in the end.

Parks lives wrote:

I'm not going to even read Tomkins article.

then why bother commenting on it?

Perhaps you should, it doesn't slate Fergle, just explains the progress Rafa has made and explained why and how the money has to be used differently.

Super Madrid wrote:

Parks lives wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

How did Ferguson overtake Liverpool? The situation was very similar to that now, even if it was a long time ago now.

Remember, both Ferguson and Benítez arrived aged 44, and inherited squads that had averaged 4th over the previous four seasons, and finished 4th the season before they arrived. All the fours, then!

It's not the same at all. 4th back then didn't automatically mean Champions league football like it does now and come with all the financial revenue stream it does today.

I'm not going to even read Tomkins article, you only have to look at the title and his picture to realise what a berk the guy is. Plus I'm sure you'd all wet yourself if we got a MUTV journalist's point of view to back up our arguments that Rafa was an ordinary manager.

The money card Rafa uses will always be ridiculous, because he spends as well as anyone. Even if you were to nitpick and prove he was the 3rd biggest spender in his time. The fact he's never came above 3rd should prove his use of his squad hasn't been that exceptional.

You think Benitez is average?

Average? No.

He's not exceptional in my mind either though.

Parks lives wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:in the 80's, pre Fergle they finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th.

Won the FA Cup in 83 and 85, won the league cup in 84 plus the Semis of Cup Winners Cup.

But apart from that he built them up from nothing

He had to get rid of a few of those players from that squad as they were pissheads, namely Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath. Two of the best players in the previous seasons.

1 step back to take two steps forwards.

Took a while but we got there in the end.

So why isn't the same allowed for Rafa? No one is arguing with Fergle's success, but by criticising Rafa you are criticising a man who has done much better than Fergle did in his first 5 years in a similar situation.

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:in the 80's, pre Fergle they finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th.

Won the FA Cup in 83 and 85, won the league cup in 84 plus the Semis of Cup Winners Cup.

But apart from that he built them up from nothing

So 3 cups in 7 years..no title..and no final in any european competition...no even second place...hardly a top team

so if Arsenal get a new manager next season and in 6 years time he wins them the league will you say he brought them from nowhere?.

Parks lives wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

How did Ferguson overtake Liverpool? The situation was very similar to that now, even if it was a long time ago now.

Remember, both Ferguson and Benítez arrived aged 44, and inherited squads that had averaged 4th over the previous four seasons, and finished 4th the season before they arrived. All the fours, then!

It's not the same at all. 4th back then didn't automatically mean Champions league football like it does now and come with all the financial revenue stream it does today.

I'm not going to even read Tomkins article, you only have to look at the title and his picture to realise what a berk the guy is. Plus I'm sure you'd all wet yourself if we got a MUTV journalist's point of view to back up our arguments that Rafa was an ordinary manager.

The money card Rafa uses will always be ridiculous, because he spends as well as anyone. Even if you were to nitpick and prove he was the 3rd biggest spender in his time. The fact he's never came above 3rd should prove his use of his squad hasn't been that exceptional.

It is no surprise you claim you won't read it Spank as realise you will hate what it tells you. If you have an MUTV article to post which is as informed as this one then be our guests and post away. We all want the full amount of info at our disposal

The money card is very relevant. Only a fool would suggest otherwise unless you think there is no correlation between Fergie having the majority of the major transfer records in British football and the titles he has won. Over the course of a league season if a manager has more £20 million subs to call on than another manager it greatly increases his chances of winning. This is fairly simple stuff here spank, even by your standards.

P.S He was one point off second in 2006, breaking our EPL points record and this year is challenging for the title. I call that progress

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:in the 80's, pre Fergle they finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th.

Won the FA Cup in 83 and 85, won the league cup in 84 plus the Semis of Cup Winners Cup.

But apart from that he built them up from nothing

So 3 cups in 7 years..no title..and no final in any european competition...no even second place...hardly a top team

so if Arsenal get a new manager next season and in 6 years time he wins them the league will you say he brought them from nowhere?

If Arsenal become the biggest team in the world sure.

Because I don't think it is that similar a situation. For the reasons I've given.

Plus in the time he's had and the money he's had he should of got a lot closer to challenging or winning the title by now. Chelsea have been through managerial changes this season and didn't advance their squad hardly at all in the summer. We've been dreadful at times this season and it's only our defence and a few moments of individual brilliance that's saved us. Arsenal are just completely off the radar now days when it comes to a title challenge.

It's taken that for you to be close to a title challenge. Plus you had it in your hands at one point and royally f*cked it up.

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:in the 80's, pre Fergle they finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th.

Won the FA Cup in 83 and 85, won the league cup in 84 plus the Semis of Cup Winners Cup.

But apart from that he built them up from nothing

So 3 cups in 7 years..no title..and no final in any european competition...no even second place...hardly a top team

so if Arsenal get a new manager next season and in 6 years time he wins them the league will you say he brought them from nowhere?

If Arsenal become the biggest team in the world sure.

United were already at that level in the 80's. It's why growing up in Hertfordshire there were about 10 Manchester United fans in my class at school.

Parks lives wrote:Because I don't think it is that similar a situation. For the reasons I've given.

Plus in the time he's had and the money he's had he should of got a lot closer to challenging or winning the title

you're talking about Rafa or Fergle here?

The money Fergle spent in the 80's to finish midtable was extraordinary.

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:in the 80's, pre Fergle they finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th.

Won the FA Cup in 83 and 85, won the league cup in 84 plus the Semis of Cup Winners Cup.

But apart from that he built them up from nothing

So 3 cups in 7 years..no title..and no final in any european competition...no even second place...hardly a top team

so if Arsenal get a new manager next season and in 6 years time he wins them the league will you say he brought them from nowhere?

If Arsenal become the biggest team in the world sure.

United were already at that level in the 80's. It's why growing up in Hertfordshire there were about 10 Manchester United fans in my class at school.

Because of stuff 10+ years before. Similar to the likes of glory hunterss ala Ade & COTR supporting Liverpool - due to them being num 1 when they were young.

L-r d wrote: glory hunterss ala Ade & COTR supporting Liverpool - due to them being num 1 when they were young.

you're from London and were 5 years old when Fergle won his first title!

Ok I concede, United were nowhere when Fegle took over and he took them to the top on a shoestring, meanwhile Rafa has spent billions making Liverpool worse.

Just read the article, you might learn something.

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

Parks lives wrote:Because I don't think it is that similar a situation. For the reasons I've given.

Plus in the time he's had and the money he's had he should of got a lot closer to challenging or winning the title

you're talking about Rafa or Fergle here?

The money Fergle spent in the 80's to finish midtable was extraordinary.

Bye everyone.

Post edited by Park Lives, Super Moderater

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

L-r d wrote: glory hunterss ala Ade & COTR supporting Liverpool - due to them being num 1 when they were young.

you're from London and were 5 years old when Fergle won his first title!

Ok I concede, United were nowhere when Fegle took over and he took them to the top on a shoestring, meanwhile Rafa has spent billions making Liverpool worse.

Just read the article, you might learn something.

And you're from Liverpool and the 80's success has nothing to do with it?
nope.

The article is the usual self praising bollocks that gets COTR'S pussy squirting...not interested.

I'm from Hertfordshire, I supported Luton Town and Watford until I was 8.

I think you're just playing the post shit and see who replies game so I'll leave it here if you don't want to read the article then your opinion on it is pretty void.

Spanky edited my post

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:I'm from Hertfordshire, I supported Luton Town and Watford until I was 8.

I think you're just playing the post shit and see who replies game

No i don't like to steal other peoples act...you were a mini BM?
I supported Arsenal but then i changed my mind

what's a mini BM?

My family aren't really into football so I got taken to the 2 local teams, whoever was at home be it Luton or Watford. I followed John Barnes to Liverpool in 87.

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:what's a mini BM?

My family aren't really into football so I got taken to the 2 local teams, whoever was at home be it Luton or Watford. I followed John Barnes to Liverpool in 87.

Well i guess i have better credentials then.

The money Ferguson spent wisely in the late '80s on players like Ince, Pallister, Hughes and Bruce took four years to have any effect on the league title. This is only Torres and Mascherano's second season.

So why did Ferguson spend so much more than Dalglish?

Well, Dalglish (like Ferguson in 2004) had a lot of his squad already in place.

Grobbelaar, Hansen, McMahon, Whelan and Nicol all spanned the entire period when Dalglish and Ferguson managed the two English superpowers.

(Liverpool raised £3.2m from selling Ian Rush in 1987, but the Reds also spend almost as much to bring him back a year later.)

Those men formed the heart of Dalglish's Liverpool.

They were five players who didn't need to be signed between 1986 and 1991; the kind of quality that could cost a king's ransom if they hadn't already been snapped up before at the top of their powers.

I thought Spanky has blocked me

What a shame to find out he has been lying all along

Ian Rush, the sixth name, also had a Liverpool connection which meant that although he needed to be re-signed, it was a relatively easy deal because of his time at Anfield.

Of course, Rush's initial departure led to the greatest influx of talent seen under Dalglish: the wonderful quartet of Aldridge, Beardsley, Barnes and Houghton. So Dalglish was partly 'blessed' in that Rush, whom he inherited, at least raised enough money to rebuild the attack upon his transfer.

Ferguson has enjoyed similar bonuses more recently: selling his best players for big fees as they approached their 30s (such as Stam, Beckham and Van Nistelrooy). Such sales now help keep Ferguson's net spend down, but in his first five years he couldn't get such impressive sums for Ron Atkinson's flops. So his net spend was very high for the times.

Again, make the comparison with Benítez and the likes of Diao and Cheyrou, who raised nothing.

Benítez never had such a luxury. Owen's value wasn't great due to his contract situation, leaving £10m less coming in. The only seriously saleable asset was Steven Gerrard.

Name drop

The biggest profits Rafa has made have been on players he himself bought: Crouch, Bellamy, Sissoko. Of course, he hasn't been in the job long enough to sell his real gems, in the way Ferguson and Wenger (with Henry and Vieira) have picked the perfect time to cash in on world-class players aged 29/30/31.

If Rafa wanted to sell Torres he could make a massive profit, but thankfully the striker still has five years before he even reaches 30. So it's not relevant. Ideally, Torres would score loads of goals, win Liverpool titles, and return to his beloved Atletico no earlier than 2014 for a big fee.

Therefore you cannot ignore the way Ferguson overcame Liverpool – not by spending more, but by spending twice the amount.

So there you have it. It took the resignation of Dalglish to open the way for Ferguson, who had spent twice as much money but only averaged 9th place between 1986 and 1991. No wonder United fans wanted him out in 1990. But it just goes to show how difficult it is to overtake a side that already has the momentum, but that the best managers get there in the end.

If Ferguson is thinking back to how he did so, then no wonder he's feeling worried.

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:what's a mini BM?

My family aren't really into football so I got taken to the 2 local teams, whoever was at home be it Luton or Watford. I followed John Barnes to Liverpool in 87.

Well i guess i have better credentials then.

As a supporter

:keegan:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote::keegan:

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:

L-r d wrote:

Glenn Wright-Phillips wrote:in the 80's, pre Fergle they finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th.

Won the FA Cup in 83 and 85, won the league cup in 84 plus the Semis of Cup Winners Cup.

But apart from that he built them up from nothing

So 3 cups in 7 years..no title..and no final in any european competition...no even second place...hardly a top team

so if Arsenal get a new manager next season and in 6 years time he wins them the league will you say he brought them from nowhere?

If Arsenal become the biggest team in the world sure.

United were already at that level in the 80's. It's why growing up in Hertfordshire there were about 10 Manchester United fans in my class at school.

Because of stuff 10+ years before. Similar to the likes of glory hunterss ala Ade & COTR supporting Liverpool - due to them being num 1 when they were young.

Ade is like 23 I think so he may only have witnessed one league win by Liverpool and also I think he is from Liverpool so hardly a glory hunter.