England squad

My match ratings:

Green 7 - Regarding the goal - great save from the Eduardo header, he could have possibly done a bit better with the rebound, ie. palming it further away, but he was coming from out of position after the first shot so I think its slightly harsh to berate him for it. Aside from that I thought he was very assured and composed when passed back to and the other two shots on target, he kept hold of.

Johnson 7 - Could he have done better to prevent the cross from the goal? Possibly. It'll be interesting to see whether Capello opts for a more solid defensive option against teams who have a serious threat down the left flank - this player could well be Richards, depending on how he performs for Citeh this season. Nevertheless, I thought Johnson got forward incredibly well and showed some signs of good link up and understanding with Lennon, which is promising for the future.

Upson - 7 - Did ok. Decent enough on the ball. A fairly quiet game for him in all honesty though. If you're being harsh, the positioning was a tincy bit suspect for Eduardo's header though.

Terry - 7 - Similar to Upson in many respects, but with better positioning and distribution.

A. Cole - 7/8 - Some of his final ball delivery was a bit suspect but aside from that, I thought he showed tremendous energy and managed to limit Srna moderately well.

Gerrard - 8 - 2 goals. Aside from that, he wasn't amazing mind. He did show some good link up play with Rooney at times but he also showed a bit of complacency now and again and needlessly gave the ball away.

Barry - 9 - I thought he was the heartbeat of the team. Superb in possession. Did fantastically to fill the gaps when others went forward. Superb.

Lampard - 8 - Very similar to Gerrard in that he scored 2 goals, but didn't offer a tremendous amount aside from that.

Lennon - 9 - 2 assists + he kept the Croat's left side under constant pressure. Not at all bad for his first competitive debut. Hopefully that's put the last nail in SWP's England career coffin. Granted, the Croats chose to play a CM there but I'm assuming that's because Bilic thought that whoever it was would provide better defensive cover there than any of the left back choices. I'd definitely pick Lennon over Walcott on current form for England, but Walcott can certainly performa role as a VERY useful supersub, either on the right or up top.

Rooney - 8 - an 8 rating is almost obligatory for Rooney in a competitive game for England under Capello. 1 goal, 1 assist and a lot of nice link up play.

Heskey - 6 - slighty harsh I hear you saying. I just think that with Carlton Cole, you could get everything that Heskey does + a little more endeavour, a little more pace and a little more flair. Hell, maybe even better finishing! He had some good off the ball movement but against the top teams, you need a player that will put away the chances that were created for Heskey. Runje isn't ever the best Croatian keeper, and its not as though Pleitikosa is world class.

Tweedle wrote:I'd definitely pick Lennon over Walcott on current form for England, but Walcott can certainly performa role as a VERY useful supersub, either on the right or up top.

Has Walcott ever done well for England coming on as a sub?

In fact, aside from his hattrick fluke, has Walcott ever done well for England regardless of whether he started or came on as a sub?

The answer is no.

From this we can easily extrapolate that your claim that he can be a 'VERY useful supersub' is grossly exaggerated, or just a baseless assertion.

A 'VERY useful supersub' would be a player with some record of being a useful supersub, preferably a lengthy record to justify the use of 'very' and its capitalisation.

I only watch the opening half of the game and a smattering of the second half, but a few things did jump out at me:

Heskey cannot control a football properly.
A Cole runs up the wing a lot but achieves nothing.
Pierre was spot on about Simunic.
Green cannot control a football properly.
Eduardo is pretty shit.
Gerrard and Lampard are gutless, cowardly passers of the ball when in an England shirt, never looking to play short, penetrative passes even when they were easy.
Lennon is the best RW we've got, in that he's the only player we have who can consistently beat a man.
Despite the goals, we've yet to play a truly good game under Capello.
Qualifying now means we have almost a year without any properly competitive international football, which will fuck any 'winning mentality' built up by recent results. SA 2010 will not be England's tournament.

Saints,

very overly critical assessment of what was a very good performance.

I think we all need to be realistic about a few things - England will never play the type of football that Spain do for example, with 80 or 90 percent passing success and constant short balls in pretty triangles around midfield.

What we did yesterday was play to our strengths. We kept the ball well at times, certainly better than in the past under the last 2 regimes,

and we used the wide areas very well, and with Barry anchoring this allowed Gerrard and Lampard to make runs and support the attack (as a pair they do this as good as anyone else), so when the final ball was played we had a number of options. The Croats couldn't cope with it defensively at all. Criticism of course exists surrounding the Lampard/Gerrard, but there is no better pair you'd want to be on the end of a short cross or pass in and around the penalty area.

It was a very good performance. Croatia, despite the loss of Modric, did not become a bad team over night. They played poorly, but so much of that was down to how we played - we harried them off the ball and pressed them into making numerous mistakes. Rooney and Heskey charging down every backpass to the keeper was a joy to behold, and rather than criticise we should be enjoying what we are seeing from the national team currently. Without, of course, getting too carried away, as even though there aren't that many truly gifted international sides in football right now, we haven't played a truly top class nation competitively for some years now.

Stimulus Package wrote:
Despite the goals, we've yet to play a truly good game under Capello.
Qualifying now means we have almost a year without any properly competitive international football, which will fuck any 'winning mentality' built up by recent results. SA 2010 will not be England's tournament.

I think first point is very harsh - I don't see how yesterday was anything but a truly good game. Lots of goals, and several more clear-cut chances created. Plenty of possession (at least first half), and solid defensively. To expect any more is to set absurdly high standards that no international team would meet.

re: having no competitive games - I think Capello will make sure they are treated like competitive games. See how angry he gets with tiny mistakes when we're 4-0. Players will know that they have to keep performing if they want to get in the World Cup squad.

to be fair, croatia looks poor nowdays, such a humiliation speaks not for a top team

they lost the kovac brothers, simunic is not becoming younger, modric was out, pranjic never found his form in munich

they are fighting with ukraine for the 2nd spot, at the euro 2008 they won the group ahead of you and russia, and russia i would say is a top team

yeah and england is really looking good, they are balanced and play some good stuff, i would be stupid not to call them title contender

It's not harsh debaser, it's wrong.

The only thing Capello did wrong last night was making sentimental substitutions when the game was already won, and qualification assured. Heskey needed a goal and could have stayed on longer, Beckham didn't really need another pointless cap and Milner deserves better than a 10 minute run out in a strange position.

Spider Crouch wrote:Saints,

very overly critical assessment of what was a very good performance.

Is that your assessment of my opinion or your assessment of your own?

I think we all need to be realistic about a few things - England will never play the type of football that Spain do for example, with 80 or 90 percent passing success and constant short balls in pretty triangles around midfield.

I don't expect us to. What I expect from senior, experienced midfielders like Lampard and Gerrard is that occasionally, when there's an opportunity to play through the midfield, instead of long/wide, that they'll take it as confidently as they would when playing for their club sides. Our two attacking central midfielders, the men who should link midfield and the 2 up front, are chicken shits when it comes to passing the ball in an England shirt. It's paranoid and weak minded, particularly for self proclaimed superstars.

What we did yesterday was play to our strengths. We kept the ball well at times, certainly better than in the past under the last 2 regimes,

and we used the wide areas very well, and with Barry anchoring this allowed Gerrard and Lampard to make runs and support the attack (as a pair they do this as good as anyone else), so when the final ball was played we had a number of options. The Croats couldn't cope with it defensively at all. Criticism of course exists surrounding the Lampard/Gerrard, but there is no better pair you'd want to be on the end of a short cross or pass in and around the penalty area.

We keep the ball better now because we have someone in midfield who can pass it on the ground. Aside from that, the exact same problems persist.

It was a very good performance. Croatia, despite the loss of Modric, did not become a bad team over night. They played poorly, but so much of that was down to how we played - we harried them off the ball and pressed them into making numerous mistakes. Rooney and Heskey charging down every backpass to the keeper was a joy to behold, and rather than criticise we should be enjoying what we are seeing from the national team currently. Without, of course, getting too carried away, as even though there aren't that many truly gifted international sides in football right now, we haven't played a truly top class nation competitively for some years now.

Croatia were dreadful from what I saw. Any half decent team could have put five past them without playing particularly well.

Forcing a poor team to pass back to the keeper should not be a cause for celebration. Being able to pass through a team (something we did in the early Sven years) is cause for celebration. Feel free to disagree.

G for Glenndetta wrote:It's not harsh debaser, it's wrong.

The only thing Capello did wrong last night was making sentimental substitutions when the game was already won, and qualification assured. Heskey needed a goal and could have stayed on longer, Beckham didn't really need another pointless cap and Milner deserves better than a 10 minute run out in a strange position.

The Beckham substitution was certainly sentimental. If we really wanted to stick the foot in, he should have bought on SWP for fresh legs and maybe Beckham could have come on in a more central role. With C. Cole on the bench?

debaser wrote:

Stimulus Package wrote:
Despite the goals, we've yet to play a truly good game under Capello.
Qualifying now means we have almost a year without any properly competitive international football, which will fuck any 'winning mentality' built up by recent results. SA 2010 will not be England's tournament.

I think first point is very harsh - I don't see how yesterday was anything but a truly good game. Lots of goals, and several more clear-cut chances created. Plenty of possession (at least first half), and solid defensively. To expect any more is to set absurdly high standards that no international team would meet.

Being able to beat a shit side by passing the ball through them, instead of around them/over the top of them is something loads of international sides can do.

re: having no competitive games - I think Capello will make sure they are treated like competitive games. See how angry he gets with tiny mistakes when we're 4-0. Players will know that they have to keep performing if they want to get in the World Cup squad.

I doubt Capello being pedantic will undo years of players being treated like war heroes just for fulfilling the bare minimum sporting achievement to be expected of them. We're still shit in friendlies because the players still don't care, Capello has changed nothing in that regard.

I'm not surprised Croatia don't have much depth, it's a country of £4.5 million people FFS.

That was our best performance under Capello - definitely thought that if we got an early one then it would be a rout. Croatia are technically excellent but had no physical qualities whatsoever to make it count. Eduardo & Olic had neither the speed or Strength/Aerial ability to trouble Terry & Upson, though the £170k p/w fearless bleeding braveheart warrior colussus left Eduardo unmarked for his goal.

Only downside was those 2 chances that Heskey missed - the Camera panned to Defoe after each one.

Clive Tyldsley is insufferable, but that goes without saying.

Spain still are the best in Europe by miles, and even they look some way behind Brazil. We're probably in the same boat as the Italians, Dutch, Germans Serbia & Bosnia at present.

Still a long way to go before you can start calling us favourites.

End Product Lennon

If Beckham played that cross for Gerrard's 1st the nation would've had one mighty orgasm.

Yeah cause Beckham hasnt done that 200 times before for England. Anyway i think to say we let alone Spain are behind Brazil is hilarious.

Brazil's performances have been in no way superior to England's in general. Results both teams are getting them. Spain did us in a few friendlies but they were only friendlies.

L r dd wrote:Yeah cause Beckham hasnt done that 200 times before for England. Anyway i think to say we let alone Spain are behind Brazil is hilarious.

Brazil's performances have been in no way superior to England's in general. Results both teams are getting them. Spain did us in a few friendlies but they were only friendlies.

Clearly the hype has got to you Lerd.

debaser wrote:
re: having no competitive games - I think Capello will make sure they are treated like competitive games. See how angry he gets with tiny mistakes when we're 4-0. Players will know that they have to keep performing if they want to get in the World Cup squad.

Sven would barely raise from his seat if we scored in the last minute of normal time to take us through to the semi-finals of the world cup, the reaction of a manager whether in the media or on the field really shouldn't matter.

We haven't played at all well in friendlys in the first half against decent opposition when it's first team against first team, that needs to change before the World Cup if this beating is going to mean anything.

Before 2006 England got hyped much more! You are behaving very well at the moment, and even the tabloids seem to have learned it!

If you can behave like this for another 10 months, I can see England win it!

L r dd wrote:Yeah cause Beckham hasnt done that 200 times before for England. Anyway i think to say we let alone Spain are behind Brazil is hilarious.

Brazil's performances have been in no way superior to England's in general. Results both teams are getting them. Spain did us in a few friendlies but they were only friendlies.

Hold your horses LRD,

Brazil have been superb in qualifying, from a results perspective. Performances are not the flair that everyone associates with Brazil, but that doesn't distract from the fact that they've moved with the times and able to match European sides physically/tactically.

They are a winning machine. We're some way off being in their league

Fey wrote:Before 2006 England got hyped much more! You are behaving very well at the moment, and even the tabloids seem to have learned it!

If you can behave like this for another 10 months, I can see England win it!

If you don't play Huntelaar I can see Holland winning it as well!

@ TS

Did I just see you put Bosnia and Herzgovenia in the same 'potential at the world cup' group as us?!?!

They've had a bloody good qualification but that's seriously over-egging it!

England and Spurs finally ending their wait for a title! It's going to be a great 2010 for teams that play in white

Dwarf wrote:

debaser wrote:
re: having no competitive games - I think Capello will make sure they are treated like competitive games. See how angry he gets with tiny mistakes when we're 4-0. Players will know that they have to keep performing if they want to get in the World Cup squad.

Sven would barely raise from his seat if we scored in the last minute of normal time to take us through to the semi-finals of the world cup, the reaction of a manager whether in the media or on the field really shouldn't matter.

We haven't played at all well in friendlys in the first half against decent opposition when it's first team against first team, that needs to change before the World Cup if this beating is going to mean anything.

There's a balance though - if we play shit in a couple of friendlies, maybe it'll temper hype, which often seems to be the death of England teams at tournaments.

e.g. I think the commentators mentioned we're going to play Brazil in a few months, a good performance & win would obviously be great for confidence, but would also tip hype into the stratosphere coming into the tournament. Not sure that would be ideal.

debaser wrote:

Dwarf wrote:

debaser wrote:
re: having no competitive games - I think Capello will make sure they are treated like competitive games. See how angry he gets with tiny mistakes when we're 4-0. Players will know that they have to keep performing if they want to get in the World Cup squad.

Sven would barely raise from his seat if we scored in the last minute of normal time to take us through to the semi-finals of the world cup, the reaction of a manager whether in the media or on the field really shouldn't matter.

We haven't played at all well in friendlys in the first half against decent opposition when it's first team against first team, that needs to change before the World Cup if this beating is going to mean anything.

There's a balance though - if we play shit in a couple of friendlies, maybe it'll temper hype, which often seems to be the death of England teams at tournaments.

e.g. I think the commentators mentioned we're going to play Brazil in a few months, a good performance & win would obviously be great for confidence, but would also tip hype into the stratosphere coming into the tournament. Not sure that would be ideal.

Who really cares about hype. Of course winning against Brazil can only be positive.

MadVillain wrote:

End Product Lennon

I like Andy Lemmons but he's just one of severals options we have for the right, Beckans, Sean Phillips, Walchart and Bent Lee all have just as much chance of going to South Africa, just because Lennon is the man in form now doesn't mean anything. The stuff said about Lennon today will be rehashed versions of what was said about super-Theo after the last Croatia game. SWP and the others have all had their champions too.

SWP has never had a game like that glenn. Lennon and Beckham will be first and second choice simply a reversal of 2006.

so becasue he's adopted he shouldn't be allowed in the England squad?

Phillips has been MOTM for England more times than Lemmons, this is a fact.

Inclined to agree with Glennda,

playing for England has an uncanny knack of ruining reputations and careers for young right wingers.

SWP was the "next big thing" when he burst onto the scene at Man City.

Since then his career has taken a nosedive.

Don't want the same to happen to Lennon, but playing for England often equals move to big 4, which in turn can equal time sat on bench and career stagnation.

Pennant, SWP, Walcott all suffering or suffered this kind of fate.

Only Big Bad Golden Balls has really owned the right midfield without his career taking too much of a dive.

We're fickle as fuck, when Lennon starts having a few poor games the knives will be out no doubt.

Enjoying it whilst it lasts

debaser wrote:
There's a balance though - if we play shit in a couple of friendlies, maybe it'll temper hype, which often seems to be the death of England teams at tournaments.

e.g. I think the commentators mentioned we're going to play Brazil in a few months, a good performance & win would obviously be great for confidence, but would also tip hype into the stratosphere coming into the tournament. Not sure that would be ideal.

Hypes a mirage that in reality has no value.

We are usually hyped with mediocre results against decent opposition and so logically and unsurprisingly we crash out against the first decent side. We are currently being hyped with mediocre results against decent opposition, so the expectation should be for us to crash out once again until that changes, I'm not saying it can't change before then.

We also aren't good enough to actually be able to have a good loss like Spain had in the Confed Cup. It's obviously better to find out your frailties before the knock out stages if you are sweeping sides, but when you are playing as mediocrely as we are in friendlies being able to win is good enough.

Aside from that if we play Brazil, I'd be happier to be leading a 2-0 at half time against and end up drawing 2-2 than be 0-2 behind at half time and end up winning 3-2 at full time.

L r dd wrote:

debaser wrote:

Dwarf wrote:

debaser wrote:
re: having no competitive games - I think Capello will make sure they are treated like competitive games. See how angry he gets with tiny mistakes when we're 4-0. Players will know that they have to keep performing if they want to get in the World Cup squad.

Sven would barely raise from his seat if we scored in the last minute of normal time to take us through to the semi-finals of the world cup, the reaction of a manager whether in the media or on the field really shouldn't matter.

We haven't played at all well in friendlys in the first half against decent opposition when it's first team against first team, that needs to change before the World Cup if this beating is going to mean anything.

There's a balance though - if we play shit in a couple of friendlies, maybe it'll temper hype, which often seems to be the death of England teams at tournaments.

e.g. I think the commentators mentioned we're going to play Brazil in a few months, a good performance & win would obviously be great for confidence, but would also tip hype into the stratosphere coming into the tournament. Not sure that would be ideal.

Who really cares about hype. Of course winning against Brazil can only be positive.

Beating the Argies in Geneva was what did for us in 2005/06.

G for Glenndetta wrote:so becasue he's adopted he shouldn't be allowed in the England squad?

Phillips has been MOTM for England more times than Lemmons, this is a fact.

I cant remember SWP ever looking a world beater for England..bentley certainly hasnt. Cant see past Walcott lennon and becks going.

It'll be interesting to see who goes out of the wide players. In 23 man squad, you'd struggle to fit more than four from:

Lennon, Beckham, SWP, Walcott, Downing, Young, Milner, J.Cole

I wonder if Capello may have the guts to cut Beckham. It would seem harsh, but it seems he's only using him for cameos now. Obviously a lot can change over season, with form & injuries

MadVillain wrote:
Beating the Argies in Geneva was what did for us in 2005/06.

Not being good enough to beat the Argies before the last 15 minutes is what did us in 05/06.

Drawing 1-1 against Hungary after 50 minutes, before scoring 8 goals in the next 40 minutes and then against Jamaica is what conned us properly. We got the illusion we were good going forward only to look limp in the group stages and subsequently in the knock out stages.

MadVillain wrote:

L r dd wrote:

debaser wrote:

Dwarf wrote:

debaser wrote:
re: having no competitive games - I think Capello will make sure they are treated like competitive games. See how angry he gets with tiny mistakes when we're 4-0. Players will know that they have to keep performing if they want to get in the World Cup squad.

Sven would barely raise from his seat if we scored in the last minute of normal time to take us through to the semi-finals of the world cup, the reaction of a manager whether in the media or on the field really shouldn't matter.

We haven't played at all well in friendlys in the first half against decent opposition when it's first team against first team, that needs to change before the World Cup if this beating is going to mean anything.

There's a balance though - if we play shit in a couple of friendlies, maybe it'll temper hype, which often seems to be the death of England teams at tournaments.

e.g. I think the commentators mentioned we're going to play Brazil in a few months, a good performance & win would obviously be great for confidence, but would also tip hype into the stratosphere coming into the tournament. Not sure that would be ideal.

Who really cares about hype. Of course winning against Brazil can only be positive.

Beating the Argies in Geneva was what did for us in 2005/06.

Oh right. Lets lose to Brazil then and avoid beating any of the big teams until the final