Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

L r dd wrote:Bit laughable saying Cesc wasnt good enough to win us a trophy...he was your team wasnt.

Besides that, if he really wasn't good enough, then Arsenal have some nerve demanding €60-70mil Euros.

Big 4 Billy Bollocks™ wrote:So what? A club can say "He's not for sale!" all they want, but once the player makes up his mind to go, it's only a matter of time.

Ferguson on C.Ronaldo/Madrid "I wouldn't sell them a virus"

Remember this: http://europeanboard.ephpbb.com/english-football-f3/spurs-complain-over-duo-t17277.htm

What was the outcome?

Arsenal are better off taking the deal now, as his value could not be any higher, rather than having Cesc sulking & performing below-par for the upcoming season and selling him for a lower price because of that, like happened with Vieira & Henry in the past.

You mean like Ronaldo who nearly led ManU to a league and CL double before completing a world record transfer to Madrid?

Henry and Vieira were approaching 30(and past their prime) so their value was always going to drastically depreciate from one season to the other. Cesc is still a kid. We could even keep him for another 2 seasons and be in a very good position to sell him for a lot of money.

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:

L r dd wrote:Bit laughable saying Cesc wasnt good enough to win us a trophy...he was your team wasnt.

Besides that, if he really wasn't good enough, then Arsenal have some nerve demanding €60-70mil Euros.

'Wasn't good enough' say 2 seasons ago, doesn't mean he ISN'T good enough NOW.

For the record(as it would't surprised me if u 2 didn't notice), I didn't say he wasn't good enough to be part of a winning side, but wasn't good enough as someone who our game was centered around to LEAD us to trophies. Key difference there.

Erm and Lrd, better come out clean and admit you have your life savings on him leaving this summer coz u look far more pissed off than the Barca fans on here that we don't want to sell him. You are in dip shit my friend.

Hopefully we never do business with Arsenal (again). Amazing that £49m can buy you both Michael Essien & Yaya Toure, but it cannot buy you Cesc Fabregas.

Barcelona director Javier Bordas confirms Arsenal will not budge on Cesc Fabregas sale
Executive fails to confirm Sandro Rosell's journey to London...


Barcelona director Javier Bordas has admitted the club are closing the battle to prise Cesc Fabregas from Arsenal.

Fabregas, 23, has been at the centre of a tug of war this summer after the Gunners rejected a £29 million bid from Barca for the Spain World Cup 2010 winner. While Cesc is understood to be keen to make the move, Arsenal refused to sanction a sale.

Speaking to Eurosport at the start of the Spanish Football Federation Assembly in Madrid, Bordas confirmed the European heavyweights were at loggerheads about the transfer and was evasive about the rumoured trip president Sandro Rosell was planning to make to London.

He said: "It's an issue for the technical secretary. The thing that is missing is Arsenal must want to sell. At the moment they do not. I do not know if the president [Sandro Rosell] is scheduled to travel to London.

"It seems that it's not a problem of numbers, but that Arsenal do not want to sell. Arsenal is very reluctant to sell."


http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2010/07/21/2035676/barcelona-director-javier-bordas-confirms-arsenal-will-not-budge-?

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It seems Barca are finally starting to get the message. Some posters here should take note.

The Professor wrote:It seems Barca are finally starting to get the message. Some posters here should take note.

Unlikely. Just yesterday Bartomeu said they have enough in the budget to sign Cesc (I sort of doubt this at least not the 60-70m that Arsenal supposedly require) and they will keep at it until 31 Aug. This is going to continue all summer.

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:It seems Barca are finally starting to get the message. Some posters here should take note.

Unlikely. Just yesterday Bartomeu said they have enough in the budget to sign Cesc (I sort of doubt this at least not the 60-70m that Arsenal supposedly require) and they will keep at it until 31 Aug. This is going to continue all summer.

That should be good news for Madrid. They'll be wasting their time pursuing an unattainable target instead of looking to address the real issues in their squad.

They are just using Cesc for their political gain, they don't really need him.

1. Ok, the club has been pretty direct in their view. But just look at the posts from your fans here - they're all about the "right price". That's why I confused the two. Also, as others pointed out, official statements usually don't always mean what they say.

2. If you think these recent "back off" comments from Barça are genuine, you're naive. As has been clearly stated, they're just trying to be nice and "rebuild" relationships with Arsenal. There'll definitely be at least one more attempt according to all the stories I've read.

3. Don't worry, the club is not as pathetic at bolstering the squad as Wenger is. They are actively working on all required positions. The Cesc transfer is completely separate.

The Professor wrote:

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:

L r dd wrote:Bit laughable saying Cesc wasnt good enough to win us a trophy...he was your team wasnt.

Besides that, if he really wasn't good enough, then Arsenal have some nerve demanding €60-70mil Euros.

'Wasn't good enough' say 2 seasons ago, doesn't mean he ISN'T good enough NOW.

For the record(as it would't surprised me if u 2 didn't notice), I didn't say he wasn't good enough to be part of a winning side, but wasn't good enough as someone who our game was centered around to LEAD us to trophies. Key difference there.

Erm and Lrd, better come out clean and admit you have your life savings on him leaving this summer coz u look far more pissed off than the Barca fans on here that we don't want to sell him. You are in dip shit my friend.

So if you don't win any trophies this coming season, will that mean he still isn't good enough?

And if so, can we get a discount next summer - say, 20m plus Hleb? Since you apparently miss him so much.

fcb wrote:1. Ok, the club has been pretty direct in their view. But just look at the posts from your fans here - they're all about the "right price". That's why I confused the two. Also, as others pointed out, official statements usually don't always mean what they say.

2. If you think these recent "back off" comments from Barça are genuine, you're naive. As has been clearly stated, they're just trying to be nice and "rebuild" relationships with Arsenal. There'll definitely be at least one more attempt according to all the stories I've read.

3. Don't worry, the club is not as pathetic at bolstering the squad as Wenger is. They are actively working on all required positions. The Cesc transfer is completely separate.

Wouldn't call it pathetic, we operate differently (budget, minimum requirement etc).

Your club lack class though.

The Professor wrote:

fcb wrote:1. Ok, the club has been pretty direct in their view. But just look at the posts from your fans here - they're all about the "right price". That's why I confused the two. Also, as others pointed out, official statements usually don't always mean what they say.

2. If you think these recent "back off" comments from Barça are genuine, you're naive. As has been clearly stated, they're just trying to be nice and "rebuild" relationships with Arsenal. There'll definitely be at least one more attempt according to all the stories I've read.

3. Don't worry, the club is not as pathetic at bolstering the squad as Wenger is. They are actively working on all required positions. The Cesc transfer is completely separate.

Wouldn't call it pathetic, we operate differently (budget, minimum requirement etc).

Your club lack class though.

Budget doesn't restrict you from bringing in a goalkeeper last season for 3m or 4m euros. Maybe then you would win a trophy.

btw, instead of all the hate and accusations towards Barça, I'm yet to see any Arsenal fan address the fact that their club captain and best player wants to leave. As I asked before, is your disappointment at this manifesting itself as anger towards Barça?

fcb wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Big 4 Billy Bollocks wrote:

L r dd wrote:Bit laughable saying Cesc wasnt good enough to win us a trophy...he was your team wasnt.

Besides that, if he really wasn't good enough, then Arsenal have some nerve demanding €60-70mil Euros.

'Wasn't good enough' say 2 seasons ago, doesn't mean he ISN'T good enough NOW.

For the record(as it would't surprised me if u 2 didn't notice), I didn't say he wasn't good enough to be part of a winning side, but wasn't good enough as someone who our game was centered around to LEAD us to trophies. Key difference there.

Erm and Lrd, better come out clean and admit you have your life savings on him leaving this summer coz u look far more pissed off than the Barca fans on here that we don't want to sell him. You are in dip shit my friend.

So if you don't win any trophies this coming season, will that mean he still isn't good enough?

And if so, can we get a discount next summer - say, 20m plus Hleb? Since you apparently miss him so much.

Have u bothered reading my previous posts?

You are getting desperate Kas, just like your club.

IT would be better for Cesc to wait another 2 seasons before moving. By that time he'd have sealed his legendary status at Arsenal(i think we'll win a trophy within the next 2 seasons) and Xavi would be on his last legs and Barca would have gone through their inevitable self destruct phase - this is likely top happen within th next 2 seasons. The big Spanish clubs always find a way to self destruct, they can't maintain sustained succes in the way ManU for example can. Guardiola might not even be at Barca this time next season(he only signs 1 year contracts) and Madrid might be the place to be.

fcb wrote:

The Professor wrote:

fcb wrote:1. Ok, the club has been pretty direct in their view. But just look at the posts from your fans here - they're all about the "right price". That's why I confused the two. Also, as others pointed out, official statements usually don't always mean what they say.

2. If you think these recent "back off" comments from Barça are genuine, you're naive. As has been clearly stated, they're just trying to be nice and "rebuild" relationships with Arsenal. There'll definitely be at least one more attempt according to all the stories I've read.

3. Don't worry, the club is not as pathetic at bolstering the squad as Wenger is. They are actively working on all required positions. The Cesc transfer is completely separate.

Wouldn't call it pathetic, we operate differently (budget, minimum requirement etc).

Your club lack class though.

Budget doesn't restrict you from bringing in a goalkeeper last season for 3m or 4m euros. Maybe then you would win a trophy.

You are like the lazy pundits or 'experts' on TV.

They claim to know what we need to win a trophy all the time and they change their opinion by the day. Not long ago we only needed one big defensive monster('only Wenger can't see it'), last season we only needed a keeper and now i hear we need 4 players.

fcb wrote:btw, instead of all the hate and accusations towards Barça, I'm yet to see any Arsenal fan address the fact that their club captain and best player wants to leave. As I asked before, is your disappointment at this manifesting itself as anger towards Barça?

It was the same thing with Ronaldo and Man Utd fans if I remember correctly.

Professor
So what are you saying here? Arsenal can't afford to spend something like 30M this transfer window? I heavily doubt that when Arsenal has barely spent anything on transfers for years now. I remember the same kind of talk from Arsenal fans(and Wenger) 2 seasons ago and then they buy Arshavin.

What is interesting is that Berlusconi seems to have gone the same route with Milan because they sell their good players as well and spend nothing on their squad but their fans' reaction is quite different from Arsenal fans. Allthough I suppose that with Milan's winning history both recent and going back means their fans have higher expectations.

It's confirmed.............Arsenal fans live on a different planet.

Super Madrid wrote:

fcb wrote:btw, instead of all the hate and accusations towards Barça, I'm yet to see any Arsenal fan address the fact that their club captain and best player wants to leave. As I asked before, is your disappointment at this manifesting itself as anger towards Barça?

It was the same thing with Ronaldo and Man Utd fans if I remember correctly.

Man Utd fans didn't like Madrid anyway the situation didn't help. But the logic or anger was such Man Utd were a far superior team to Real Madrid. Everybody can see why Cesc wants to leave.

L r dd wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

fcb wrote:btw, instead of all the hate and accusations towards Barça, I'm yet to see any Arsenal fan address the fact that their club captain and best player wants to leave. As I asked before, is your disappointment at this manifesting itself as anger towards Barça?

It was the same thing with Ronaldo and Man Utd fans if I remember correctly.

Man Utd fans didn't like Madrid anyway the situation didn't help. But the logic or anger was such Man Utd were a far superior team to Real Madrid. Everybody can see why Cesc wants to leave.

But the anger was mostly towards the club and not the player which it should have been. Likewise in this situation. I can't remember Real Madrid fans being mad at Milan when they were talking about buying Ramos and how he was the natural heir to Maldini( ) and even Maldini came out and said he should come.

Super Madrid wrote:

L r dd wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

fcb wrote:btw, instead of all the hate and accusations towards Barça, I'm yet to see any Arsenal fan address the fact that their club captain and best player wants to leave. As I asked before, is your disappointment at this manifesting itself as anger towards Barça?

It was the same thing with Ronaldo and Man Utd fans if I remember correctly.

Man Utd fans didn't like Madrid anyway the situation didn't help. But the logic or anger was such Man Utd were a far superior team to Real Madrid. Everybody can see why Cesc wants to leave.

But the anger was mostly towards the club and not the player which it should have been. Likewise in this situation. I can't remember Real Madrid fans being mad at Milan when they were talking about buying Ramos and how he was the natural heir to Maldini( ) and even Maldini came out and said he should come.

You probably supported someone else then. But Marca were printing numerous lies for over 3 years on the subject. There was history with other players like Ruud and same tactics. And it was also disrespect given the position of the two clubs on all levels. Big differences. Calderon pissed everybody off.

L r dd wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

L r dd wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

fcb wrote:btw, instead of all the hate and accusations towards Barça, I'm yet to see any Arsenal fan address the fact that their club captain and best player wants to leave. As I asked before, is your disappointment at this manifesting itself as anger towards Barça?

It was the same thing with Ronaldo and Man Utd fans if I remember correctly.

Man Utd fans didn't like Madrid anyway the situation didn't help. But the logic or anger was such Man Utd were a far superior team to Real Madrid. Everybody can see why Cesc wants to leave.

But the anger was mostly towards the club and not the player which it should have been. Likewise in this situation. I can't remember Real Madrid fans being mad at Milan when they were talking about buying Ramos and how he was the natural heir to Maldini( ) and even Maldini came out and said he should come.

You probably supported someone else then. But Marca were printing numerous lies for over 3 years on the subject. There was history with other players like Ruud and same tactics. And it was also disrespect given the position of the two clubs on all levels. Big differences. Calderon pissed everybody off.

Anyway my point is that instead of getting mad I would just laugh at it. The only worry should be whether or not the player wants to go. If the player wants to stay then it doesn't matter what the other club does.

fcb wrote:btw, instead of all the hate and accusations towards Barça, I'm yet to see any Arsenal fan address the fact that their club captain and best player wants to leave. As I asked before, is your disappointment at this manifesting itself as anger towards Barça?

I'm pretty sure many of us did back when this started ages ago. I can only speak for myself with any certainty, but I said then that I didn't blame Cesc for wanting to leave, would understand him going, and thought that this was a damning indictment of Wenger's approach in recent years. If he does go I'll wish him well and don't begrudge him wanting more than we offer. Doesn't mean I can't be annoyed by some of his actions, or especially by the verbal diarrhoea spewed out by those at Barcelona - and in particular that smug, graceless prick Xavi.

Super Madrid wrote:

fcb wrote:btw, instead of all the hate and accusations towards Barça, I'm yet to see any Arsenal fan address the fact that their club captain and best player wants to leave. As I asked before, is your disappointment at this manifesting itself as anger towards Barça?

It was the same thing with Ronaldo and Man Utd fans if I remember correctly.

Professor
So what are you saying here? Arsenal can't afford to spend something like 30M this transfer window? I heavily doubt that when Arsenal has barely spent anything on transfers for years now. I remember the same kind of talk from Arsenal fans(and Wenger) 2 seasons ago and then they buy Arshavin.
.

No.

I likened Kas to our TV 'experts' who always claim to know what we needed to win a trophy. 'They only need player X or Y' only for them to call for player B or Z in a couple of months time.

Xavi is a c**t that is all

fcb wrote:btw, instead of all the hate and accusations towards Barça, I'm yet to see any Arsenal fan address the fact that their club captain and best player wants to leave. As I asked before, is your disappointment at this manifesting itself as anger towards Barça?

Good tactics there Kas

You are using this to deflect attention from the disgraceful attitude by your club in this affair by sort of suggesting it's an Arsenal problem.

We have always gone through this, from Anelka to Petit, Overmas and Vieira(this one continued for about half a decade). The Spanish clubs have always looked to unsettle our players.

So i think the theory that this transfer has anything to do with the club's recent policy doesn't hold water.

Anelka won a title before getting his head turned.

We were very competitive when Petit and overmars left.

Vieira just went a whole season unbeaten before nearly completing a move to Madrid.

So my anger is 100% as a result of Barca's attitude

Barca are just being Barca, they'll continue to do this for as long as they exist no matter how successful or unsuccessful we are. But we have to put a stop to this attitude of bowing down to them everytime they come for one of of our players. And I'm glad with the club's stance so far.

Nobody is saying that Barcelona isn't acting in a cuntish way but the point Kas is making is that all of this is down to Cesc. If he didn't want to leave then it wouldn't be a problem. Barcelona would be chasing an impossible dream. However Cesc hasn't done that and that is why all of this is happening. Now don't get me wrong, im sure that Barcelona players have used every opportunity to tell him privately why he should leave but in the end if he truly wanted to stay there is little they could do to persuade him.

I don't see how those other players you mentioned are relevant either. Cesc seems to be annoyed at the club not being more competitive which is fair. I don't think anybody believes the claim that they can't afford to spend some big dough especially after several seasons of barely having any big transfers. IMO he is fully justified in wanting to leave. The focus should be more on Cesc. Not strange behaviour from a fan though because Man Utd fans were the same way with Ronaldo.

oh dear

Ona FM are reporting that Wenger's willing to listen to Sandro Rosselll.

Super Madrid wrote:Nobody is saying that Barcelona isn't acting in a cuntish way but the point Kas is making is that all of this is down to Cesc. If he didn't want to leave then it wouldn't be a problem. Barcelona would be chasing an impossible dream. However Cesc hasn't done that and that is why all of this is happening. Now don't get me wrong, im sure that Barcelona players have used every opportunity to tell him privately why he should leave but in the end if he truly wanted to stay there is little they could do to persuade him.

Personally what Cesc wants is irrelevant to me, he's under contract for 5 years, so he'll only leave on our terms. I hope Barca get that too.

Super Madrid wrote:I don't see how those other players you mentioned are relevant either. Cesc seems to be annoyed at the club not being more competitive which is fair. I don't think anybody believes the claim that they can't afford to spend some big dough especially after several seasons of barely having any big transfers. IMO he is fully justified in wanting to leave. The focus should be more on Cesc. Not strange behaviour from a fan though because Man Utd fans were the same way with Ronaldo.

How is Vieira for example, who was our club captain and the heartbeat of our team flirting with Madrid any different to our present captian Cesc(heartbeat of the current team) doing the same to Barca?

The Professor wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:Nobody is saying that Barcelona isn't acting in a cuntish way but the point Kas is making is that all of this is down to Cesc. If he didn't want to leave then it wouldn't be a problem. Barcelona would be chasing an impossible dream. However Cesc hasn't done that and that is why all of this is happening. Now don't get me wrong, im sure that Barcelona players have used every opportunity to tell him privately why he should leave but in the end if he truly wanted to stay there is little they could do to persuade him.

Personally what Cesc wants is irrelevant to me, he's under contract for 5 years, so he'll only leave on our terms. I hope Barca get that too.

Super Madrid wrote:I don't see how those other players you mentioned are relevant either. Cesc seems to be annoyed at the club not being more competitive which is fair. I don't think anybody believes the claim that they can't afford to spend some big dough especially after several seasons of barely having any big transfers. IMO he is fully justified in wanting to leave. The focus should be more on Cesc. Not strange behaviour from a fan though because Man Utd fans were the same way with Ronaldo.

How is Vieira for example, who was our club captain and the heartbeat of our team flirting with Madrid any different to our present captian Cesc(heartbeat of the current team) doing the same to Barca?

His reasons for leaving are Arsenals or Wengers fault mostly aside from the fact he'd want to go home at some point. He came for nothing and has done his best for Arsenal not caring what he wants is a bit of a shabby attitude. Not only that it also sends a dubious message out to other players. If you put Ronaldo back into the equation in the end you had to sell a player who wants to go and has been there awhile 6 years and decided he needs a new challenge or to return to his kind of enviroment.

Otherwise you'll have people running down contracts or refusing to sign long ones and/or unhappy players and that doesn't work out so well. Fergie said to Ronaldo stay one more year and if you don't feel any different at the end of it we'll let you go. And that makes sense. It's not black and white between refusing to sell or be a selling club and being pushovers there is other complications. Cesc is not really like Hleb or whoever. He's been there a pretty damn long time from a kid almost. You can hold out for a bigger price but you're delaying the inevitable. Saying you don't care what he wants is just short sighted the man does not want to be there.

L r dd wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:Nobody is saying that Barcelona isn't acting in a cuntish way but the point Kas is making is that all of this is down to Cesc. If he didn't want to leave then it wouldn't be a problem. Barcelona would be chasing an impossible dream. However Cesc hasn't done that and that is why all of this is happening. Now don't get me wrong, im sure that Barcelona players have used every opportunity to tell him privately why he should leave but in the end if he truly wanted to stay there is little they could do to persuade him.

Personally what Cesc wants is irrelevant to me, he's under contract for 5 years, so he'll only leave on our terms. I hope Barca get that too.

Super Madrid wrote:I don't see how those other players you mentioned are relevant either. Cesc seems to be annoyed at the club not being more competitive which is fair. I don't think anybody believes the claim that they can't afford to spend some big dough especially after several seasons of barely having any big transfers. IMO he is fully justified in wanting to leave. The focus should be more on Cesc. Not strange behaviour from a fan though because Man Utd fans were the same way with Ronaldo.

How is Vieira for example, who was our club captain and the heartbeat of our team flirting with Madrid any different to our present captian Cesc(heartbeat of the current team) doing the same to Barca?

His reasons for leaving are Arsenals or Wengers fault mostly aside from the fact he'd want to go home at some point. He came for nothing and has done his best for Arsenal not caring what he wants is a bit of a shabby attitude. Not only that it also sends a dubious message out to other players. If you put Ronaldo back into the equation in the end you had to sell a player who wants to go and has been there awhile 6 years and decided he needs a new challenge or to return to his kind of enviroment.

Otherwise you'll have people running down contracts or refusing to sign long ones and/or unhappy players and that doesn't work out so well. Fergie said to Ronaldo stay one more year and if you don't feel any different at the end of it we'll let you go. And that makes sense. It's not black and white between refusing to sell or be a selling club and being pushovers there is other complications. Cesc is not really like Hleb or whoever. He's been there a pretty damn long time from a kid almost. You can hold out for a bigger price but you're delaying the inevitable. Saying you don't care what he wants is just short sighted the man does not want to be there.

No disrespect but u are talking out of your ass.

Who says he'd not be looking to leave had we just won the treble on succession?

You've only got yourself to blame for putting so much money on this transfer. HE'S NOT FOR SALE!