Iniesta is better than Zidane

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I will perhaps wade into this debate later, but anyone who watched Zidane at Juventus (like me) cannot possibly say his acclaim is premised on sporadically spectacular moments. Sorry, that's just not true, and Juve and Serie A fans would surely concur.

I have, however, thought that Zidane was a BIT overrated on the international stage--that is, pre-2006 at least. I n WC1998, he didn't even play that much and scored past a bewildered Brazil side in the Final. And in Euro2000, he was almost completely nullified in the Final, and it was Totti who eclipsed him. I think Zidane's signal achievement internationally is how he took a doddering and tired French side to a Final in 2006, only of course to piss all over his work in it.

I agree with this completely. That France team was so poor and uninspiring offensively but Zidane somehow raised their level. The other thing that really impressed about that performance is that the WC in 2006 was so dominated by defensive football. There were really no great offensive players in that WC because everybody were so focused on closing down. Only Zidane was able to really stand out and he did this as a old man dragging a rather sluggish team to the final.

Fade out wrote:

Messiah wrote:

Fade out wrote:But thing is little rat you didn't even watch Zidane play week-in week-out yourself. And you're quite clearly talking out of your arse.

Blah Blah Blah, can't come with a single thing to say to disprove anything that i have said, blah blah blah, that all i am here

And what did you prove exactly?

How about you prove your half-arse assumption that Zidane wasn't consistently good through out the season. Enough of your pathetic 'from whatever I have seen' BS.

again blah blah blah, the usual zidane default argument doesn't hold much water against iniesta, he can match him in big game moments, so the zidane fan boys are left clutching at straws and insults.

But when people talk of maradona they talk of the body of work he did for napoli and that he won argentina the world cup(crap but still) not that he scored a goal in he final

when they talk of pele they don't just mention what he did in the world cup, they talk about his decade long career with santos

Cryuff what he did not only with the dutch, but his body of work with Ajax

Messi, he was shit for argentina(the easy argument for people like you), but they will mention his body of work with barcelona, not just the final goals

xavi is body of work

zidane, 3 fucking goals an thats its and when those 3 goals and made redundant in a argument their isn't much else to talk about, his body of work though out his career doesn't hold up, he did good things with bordeaux, but apart from that he was just apart of the system and would score a goal when people are watch, a great thing in it self, but not enough to be called one of the 5-10 best players ever.

minus his 3 goals, people like you are left with shit in their hands to debate with for him, if we were talking about zidane vs messi, you all would be tell him to win a wc for argentina and would just keep on repeating it, void of that fact what do you have?., he was a beautiful player to watch but....

and he wasn't that great in the 06 world cup either, in the group stage he was average, against spain the game change with henry's actions and a coaching mistake aragones, but he was good, in brazil he role back the years i cannot tell i lie, i was like watching him in his prime. in the SF again he was good, but not jaw dropping good has the fan boys would have you believe and the final speaks for it self.

the 98 and 00 speak for themselves for those with a bit of sense, he was just apart of the system through the comps, wasn't really the standout player from the word go, again had the fan boys would have you believe and i watch damn near every game at both tournaments

You still haven't answered the question. You came up with BS 'as far as I remember' argument to write off Zidane's effect over a full season.

Fade out wrote:You still haven't answered the question. You came up with BS 'as far as I remember' argument to write off Zidane's effect over a full season.

again blah blah blah, even moggi the man who signed him has seen it, still can't come with anything at all can you, because has i said your default argument has gone to shit

oh and at your silva comment another player that is has skilled has zidane, though zidane is much better, i never said xavi or iniest are a one man band stand how could either be, they are not zidane, i said they found the foundation on which everything is built for two of the best teams in football history this is an undeniable FACT.

bullshit especially the PV and Z controlling midfield bullshit and xaviesta not being able to do it for france BULLSHIT, thats the biggest load of BULLSHIT i have ever heard so whatever you say is just long those lines of BULLSHIT, No 3 goals for zidane and all you can come with is BULLSHIT

funny though it is that its when PV and Z staring playing together that france stop winning, i a wait euro 2000 comments.

Is 'blah blah' your favorite cover-up phrase?

Desperate that.

Bullshit, Iniesta is an excellent footballer, but no way did he have the same impact on the game as Zidane did. Look how ridiculous France became without him, it's because of him a bunch of Africans won the EC and WC. A born leader on the pitch. And an amazing footballer.

And lets face it, even though Iniesta has a MASSIVE forehead, he wouldnt be able to headbutt Materazzi to the ground!

Youtube

note i never said iniesta is better are even has good as zidane, what i have been saying is the difference between them isn't a far had the sun is from the earth, as some bullshiters would have people believe.

if zidane is on floor 10 iniesta is on 8 going 9 if things continue the way they are and people keep going back to the WC and Euros has if he won it on his own, he didn't score a single goal on the way to the 98 final, yes i know their is more to it than goals, but it shows that those Africans could have done a job

Ok, thread got a bit out of hand but it achieved my goal of stirring some lively debate on the otherwise dead forum. Nothing like a good old fashioned player vs. player comparison

Some pretty biased posts, with a lot of people missing the point (Puyol > Beckenbauer at least if you posted Pique > Beckenbauer it would make some sense).

I want to reiterate (whether you believe me or not) that my initial post was not biased at all, and just a reaction to realising how similar Iniesta's movement and positioning on the pitch is to Zidane. I only exaggerated the title a bit, to make people come in and post.

To answer my own original question, I personally still don't think Iniesta is yet as "great" as Zidane. But he is certainly the closest active footballer to Zidane's style.

Even if Iniesta achieves another World Cup and Champions Leagues in the rest of his career, I doubt he'll overtake Zidane...simply because of my other point - Zidane stood out more because he was amongst lesser players. Iniesta's achievements get buried amongst Xavi and Messi.

Of course, it's debatable whether Iniesta would have done the same for France 2006 as Zidane did. I guess we'll never know. Iniesta will always be considered great as part of a team, whereas Zidane is considered great as an individual.

I just love how riled up Messiah has become because of this subject. His spelling has been even more atrocious than it normally is. So I just hope our French resident keeps it up because it is very entertaining.

Anyway I gues your point was that Iniesta is the player who most resembles Zidane today in style. I have never really thought it but he certainly does have some of the elegance. Zidane was taller which made his elegance stand out but I you're right.

Messiah wrote:

Youtube

note i never said iniesta is better are even has good as zidane, what i have been saying is the difference between them isn't a far had the sun is from the earth, as some bullshiters would have people believe.

if zidane is on floor 10 iniesta is on 8 going 9 if things continue the way they are and people keep going back to the WC and Euros has if he won it on his own, he didn't score a single goal on the way to the 98 final, yes i know their is more to it than goals, but it shows that those Africans could have done a job

Why can Bojan be shit for several years for Barca and you still think he'll make it, but for Hleb, a few poor games and lengthy injury makes him a shocking player, overlooking anything he did elsewhere? Tunnelvision.

Hlebagone wrote:

Messiah wrote:

Youtube

note i never said iniesta is better are even has good as zidane, what i have been saying is the difference between them isn't a far had the sun is from the earth, as some bullshiters would have people believe.

if zidane is on floor 10 iniesta is on 8 going 9 if things continue the way they are and people keep going back to the WC and Euros has if he won it on his own, he didn't score a single goal on the way to the 98 final, yes i know their is more to it than goals, but it shows that those Africans could have done a job

Why can Bojan be shit for several years for Barca and you still think he'll make it, but for Hleb, a few poor games and lengthy injury makes him a shocking player, overlooking anything he did elsewhere? Tunnelvision.

what..., i wasn't even think of that, but as you said think he'll make it, he has time on his hands.

i was really looking for a oleguer clip to illustrate the point, but he is so shit i could find one.

Super Stalin wrote:I just love how riled up Messiah has become because of this subject. His spelling has been even more atrocious than it normally is. So I just hope our French resident keeps it up because it is very entertaining.

Anyway I gues your point was that Iniesta is the player who most resembles Zidane today in style. I have never really thought it but he certainly does have some of the elegance. Zidane was taller which made his elegance stand out but I you're right.

, me riled up,

their is not a single person on this board that can get me riled up, this like so many things i have said on this board will be proven right with time.

i am just having fun has iniesta leaves the default stance redundant, so the fans boy really have nothing left to argue with, just waiting....

ps find the wards i spelt so otrociously

I await the Gai,GDS and bojan comments.

fcb wrote:Ok, thread got a bit out of hand but it achieved my goal of stirring some lively debate on the otherwise dead forum. Nothing like a good old fashioned player vs. player comparison

Some pretty biased posts, with a lot of people missing the point (Puyol > Beckenbauer at least if you posted Pique > Beckenbauer it would make some sense).

I want to reiterate (whether you believe me or not) that my initial post was not biased at all, and just a reaction to realising how similar Iniesta's movement and positioning on the pitch is to Zidane. I only exaggerated the title a bit, to make people come in and post.

To answer my own original question, I personally still don't think Iniesta is yet as "great" as Zidane. But he is certainly the closest active footballer to Zidane's style.

Even if Iniesta achieves another World Cup and Champions Leagues in the rest of his career, I doubt he'll overtake Zidane...simply because of my other point - Zidane stood out more because he was amongst lesser players. Iniesta's achievements get buried amongst Xavi and Messi.

Of course, it's debatable whether Iniesta would have done the same for France 2006 as Zidane did. I guess we'll never know. Iniesta will always be considered great as part of a team, whereas Zidane is considered great as an individual.

I totally understand the iniesta will be lost somewhere in the middle because of messi and xavi, but how did zidane play with lesser players, especially when certain people would have you believe the whole is greater than the sum of its parts when it comes to barcelona and spain. Zidane was always surrounded by world class players, none has good has xavi or messi, but they were not just some run of the mill players either.

Messiah wrote:their is not a single person on this board that can get me riled up

There are many things which could wind you up, particularly on the subject of Barcelona. For example, I challenge you to explain to us all how this is not an act of complete and utter petulance without eventually getting riled up.

S4P wrote:

Messiah wrote:their is not a single person on this board that can get me riled up

There are many things which could wind you up, particularly on the subject of Barcelona. For example, I challenge you to explain to us all how this is not an act of complete and utter petulance without eventually getting riled up.

how what is not an act of petulance kicking the ball in some guys face?

well its not a act of petulance as all Madrid fans long for the day they will have a ball kick right into their face in a classico so rather than a act of petulance, its an act of affability.

Super Stalin wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I will perhaps wade into this debate later, but anyone who watched Zidane at Juventus (like me) cannot possibly say his acclaim is premised on sporadically spectacular moments. Sorry, that's just not true, and Juve and Serie A fans would surely concur.

I have, however, thought that Zidane was a BIT overrated on the international stage--that is, pre-2006 at least. I n WC1998, he didn't even play that much and scored past a bewildered Brazil side in the Final. And in Euro2000, he was almost completely nullified in the Final, and it was Totti who eclipsed him. I think Zidane's signal achievement internationally is how he took a doddering and tired French side to a Final in 2006, only of course to piss all over his work in it.

I agree with this completely. That France team was so poor and uninspiring offensively but Zidane somehow raised their level. The other thing that really impressed about that performance is that the WC in 2006 was so dominated by defensive football. There were really no great offensive players in that WC because everybody were so focused on closing down. Only Zidane was able to really stand out and he did this as a old man dragging a rather sluggish team to the final.

I don't really agree with what you said, probably because I followed France more than you. Zidane wasn't the only player that played well during this world cup, all the defenders did great except against Croatia, Deschamps, Petit were good as well. Zidane's W.C wasn't terrible, except for his two goals against Brasil.

2006 mate!!

Bump! Iniesta for me.Iniesta is Zidane but with consistency,better work rate off the ball and better/more creative passing in the final third.

Enjoy:



Download the video without the black at the top and bottom here:

http://www.embedupload.com/?d=4IJXKPV1C3

They have a very different presence but htere are certain comparisons of style and of achievement. Oddly, I thought Zidane had a pretty poor 1998 World Cup, but a brilliant subsequent Euros. And of ncourse he then went and scored two in the WC final, which tends to eclipse all else and really isn't bad.

I think maybe Iniesta is underrated when compared to Zidane. Maybe. but maybe not for long. And maybe not in Spain soon.

what have i Been saying, if he didn't score those goal in the final, no one would remember him.



Sid Lowe

In Euro 2000 final he was anonymous and Totti totally outclassed him.

No he wasnt, I was in the stadium that day. And Zidane had better Winning Eleven 4 stats back then.

And Iniesta will never be rated higher then Zidane!

Even the most loyal Zidane fanboys will tell you Totti played twice as good as Zidane on that day.

Fey wrote:No he wasnt, I was in the stadium that day. And Zidane had better Winning Eleven 4 stats back then.

And Iniesta will never be rated higher then Zidane!

TM wrote:

Fey wrote:No he wasnt, I was in the stadium that day. And Zidane had better Winning Eleven 4 stats back then.

And Iniesta will never be rated higher then Zidane!