english U21 players called 'monkeys' by german opponents

dear oh dear, the FA has complained to UEFA about the actions of some german players yesterday....calling a few of the english players 'monkeys' during the game...

Where will it all end?

What i don't understand is why it seems to only happen to english teams....

Find it hard to believe that the German players would say this considering they have black players of their own.

at the same time, why would Anton and Micah make it up?

Should be dealt with swiftly and be done with; I wouldnt consider Germany a country with a racist problem like some of the astern European countries for instance

Apparently, 2 English players were called "monkey" by 2 different German players. Is this racist abuse?
When I was a child, and up to no-good, my mum used to call me a "little monkey". Do you think I could sue her for that?

what a shame to german players if they really did this as what you described. to begin with my remarks, i would like to think man are evolved through monkeys according to Darwin's evolutionism. i dont believe god and christianism,in other words i am a pure atheist. i know most of european ppl believe the existence of the god. on being on the pitch there is one tool ,to overwhelm ur opponents,which is make best ur skill and chances to score as many goals as possible.they will do nothing but run around u not even touching the ball------you should know what you are doing now---that means you are making them fool and make fun of them.

[quote="SLB e Millwall"]Apparently, 2 English players were called "monkey" by 2 different German players. Is this racist abuse?
When I was a child, and up to no-good, my mum used to call me a "little monkey". Do you think I could sue her for that?[/quote]

whats ur point?

"Monkey" ("Affe") is fairly common name-calling in German. (Without any racial connotation.)

It's really difficult to draw the line. What's okay, what needs to be punished? If I compare this to the Materazzi affair it seems quite harmless. If they did mean it to be racist, it's a different story. (But who can say?)

And there doesn't seem to be any proof at the moment. If you start punishing players without evidence you'd open the door to many more problems, obviously. (E.g. Let's get their star player suspended by accusing him.)

Tough call.

Effenberg wrote:"Monkey" ("Affe") is fairly common name-calling in German. (Without any racial connotation.)

It's really difficult to draw the line. What's okay, what needs to be punished? If I compare this to the Materazzi affair it seems quite harmless. If they did mean it to be racist, it's a different story. (But who can say?)

And there doesn't seem to be any proof at the moment. If you start punishing players without evidence you'd open the door to many more problems, obviously. (E.g. Let's get their star player suspended by accusing him.)

Tough call.

I agree- different countries herald different interpretations of the same word. In England, monkey has an unfortunate link to deragatory racial slurs of the past. In Germany, it might be a word dished out to a person of any creed or colour as a form of insult.

Its tough really. The Germans proved to be many things last night (whinging divers - Kiessling, sly bastards - that lad who kneed Richards in the back as he walked past him to get the England man booked, and pretty skillfull too- Hilbert, but surely not racists! )

I do hope people don't try and score points in this thread, just to have a go at the Ze Germans.

If the English players were the twin sons of Martin Keown would that have been a racist abuse...?????

No seriously...

No matter if it was meant to be racist or not. It felt as an insult and insults are not acceptable IMO! However, most of the times a bad trash-talk is hard to prove!

On Matterazzi. If Zidane had to be the guts NOT to respond on it during the game it would have been superb if he said something to the FIFA/press after the game. He didn't do that so he was wrong...

What I always hate in those debates is: you can trash-talk anybody with the worst diseases or whatever but when the word “monkey” is on the table people make a big mess of it and the whole world is angry!

If you want to get rid of insults during the game (hardly possible but I said IF…) you have to take action about ANY insult and not only when it is about blacks or Muslims...

[quote="Cking"]

SLB e Millwall wrote:Apparently, 2 English players were called "monkey" by 2 different German players. Is this racist abuse?
When I was a child, and up to no-good, my mum used to call me a "little monkey". Do you think I could sue her for that?[/quote]

whats ur point?

My point is that it's not the words that are used, but the feeling in those words. Proving a racial slur by intention, and not actual facts, is extremely difficult. And, I sure we all agree, that people are innocent until proven guilty.

Effenberg wrote:"Monkey" ("Affe") is fairly common name-calling in German. (Without any racial connotation.)

It's really difficult to draw the line. What's okay, what needs to be punished? If I compare this to the Materazzi affair it seems quite harmless. If they did mean it to be racist, it's a different story. (But who can say?)

And there doesn't seem to be any proof at the moment. If you start punishing players without evidence you'd open the door to many more problems, obviously. (E.g. Let's get their star player suspended by accusing him.)

Tough call.

Monkey is used often even in Portugal and usualy the meaning is the same as clown. But it's a fact that for a black person it has a totaly different meaning.

Many Portuguese had problems here in Congo just because they used that term to describe that thing you use to lift your car when changing a tyre(don't know how it's called in english). Same thing happens with a jump suit ( fato-macaco = monkey suit).
In these cases you're not insulting anyone but you'll have a hard time explaining to any congolese near by why did you use the word "macaco".

Parks Lives wrote:I do hope people don't try and score points in this thread, just to have a go at the Ze Germans.

Winning both games was enough point scoring in itself

Ps Was hoping to hear more of Otto and Blut's pearls of wisdom this morning, but it appears to have gone v. quiet since friday

Hahaha.

I'd love to hear Otto's spin on the two games.

Parks Lives wrote:I do hope people don't try and score points in this thread, just to have a go at the Ze Germans.

Not to mention Northern monkeys.

Lusitan wrote:

Effenberg wrote:"Monkey" ("Affe") is fairly common name-calling in German. (Without any racial connotation.)

It's really difficult to draw the line. What's okay, what needs to be punished? If I compare this to the Materazzi affair it seems quite harmless. If they did mean it to be racist, it's a different story. (But who can say?)

And there doesn't seem to be any proof at the moment. If you start punishing players without evidence you'd open the door to many more problems, obviously. (E.g. Let's get their star player suspended by accusing him.)

Tough call.

Monkey is used often even in Portugal and usualy the meaning is the same as clown. But it's a fact that for a black person it has a totaly different meaning.

Many Portuguese had problems here in Congo just because they used that term to describe that thing you use to lift your car when changing a tyre(don't know how it's called in english). Same thing happens with a jump suit ( fato-macaco = monkey suit).
In these cases you're not insulting anyone but you'll have a hard time explaining to any congolese near by why did you use the word "macaco".

exactly...if someone said 'monkey' to me as a white person i wouldnt be bothered...but someone calling a black person the same...if he didnt mean it racially...is just plain stupid...thats justs asking for trouble...

but whats funny...if it wasnt meant racially then this would actually mean the person who said this was actually VERY NON RACIST...as he didnt even think that the person he 'insulted' was black and would therefore maybe be insulted..

a tricky situation..and i hope if it wasnt meant racially that the offender isnt punished...

would an english guy get in trouble if he called a german player a 'kraut'?

Hmm, I've read the article on the skysport website:

The pair have alleged that they were called 'monkeys' by an, as yet, unnamed opponent, although television footage would appear to show that one incident may well involve Werder Bremen's Aaron Hunt.

I indeed remember this scene. The German commentator wondered what Ferdinand and Hunt told each other and mentioned that Hunt of course speaks perfect English.
With regard to the word monkey ("Affe" in German) it's usual meaning in Germany is the same as clown. But then again if it has a different meaning in England I would assume Hunt knows this exactly.

However considering the majority of our U21 players have a foreign background, with Matip and Boateng alone two with an African, and the very good team spirit I would really be likewise suprised and disappointed.

Is Aaron Hunt English Chrissi? ie were his parents English?

chrissicross wrote:Hmm, I've read the article on the skysport website:

The pair have alleged that they were called 'monkeys' by an, as yet, unnamed opponent, although television footage would appear to show that one incident may well involve Werder Bremen's Aaron Hunt.

I indeed remember this scene. The German commentator wondered what Ferdinand and Hunt told each other and mentioned that Hunt of course speaks perfect English.
With regard to the word monkey ("Affe" in German) it's usual meaning in Germany is the same as clown. But then again if it has a different meaning in England I would assume Hunt knows this exactly.

However considering the majority of our U21 players have a foreign background, with Matip and Boateng alone two with an African, and the very good team spirit I would really be likewise suprised and disappointed.

maybe he said 'island monkey'...the name germans give us as we call them 'krauts'?

Roger_Hunt wrote:

Parks Lives wrote:I do hope people don't try and score points in this thread, just to have a go at the Ze Germans.

Not to mention Northern monkeys.

Damn it!

I was ready and waiting with my "They're probably just talking about Steven Taylor" comments.

dont panic! wrote:

chrissicross wrote:Hmm, I've read the article on the skysport website:

The pair have alleged that they were called 'monkeys' by an, as yet, unnamed opponent, although television footage would appear to show that one incident may well involve Werder Bremen's Aaron Hunt.

I indeed remember this scene. The German commentator wondered what Ferdinand and Hunt told each other and mentioned that Hunt of course speaks perfect English.
With regard to the word monkey ("Affe" in German) it's usual meaning in Germany is the same as clown. But then again if it has a different meaning in England I would assume Hunt knows this exactly.

However considering the majority of our U21 players have a foreign background, with Matip and Boateng alone two with an African, and the very good team spirit I would really be likewise suprised and disappointed.

maybe he said 'island monkey'...the name germans give us as we call them 'krauts'?

Hmm, but then again Hunt's own mum and many of his family are "island monkeys" as well. Would be strange imo if he really said this.

Historically the German equivalent of "Krauts" is "Tommies" btw. Don't know why though...

chrissicross wrote:

dont panic! wrote:

chrissicross wrote:Hmm, I've read the article on the skysport website:

The pair have alleged that they were called 'monkeys' by an, as yet, unnamed opponent, although television footage would appear to show that one incident may well involve Werder Bremen's Aaron Hunt.

I indeed remember this scene. The German commentator wondered what Ferdinand and Hunt told each other and mentioned that Hunt of course speaks perfect English.
With regard to the word monkey ("Affe" in German) it's usual meaning in Germany is the same as clown. But then again if it has a different meaning in England I would assume Hunt knows this exactly.

However considering the majority of our U21 players have a foreign background, with Matip and Boateng alone two with an African, and the very good team spirit I would really be likewise suprised and disappointed.

maybe he said 'island monkey'...the name germans give us as we call them 'krauts'?

Hmm, but then again Hunt's own mum and many of his family are "island monkeys" as well. Would be strange imo if he really said this.

Historically the German equivalent of "Krauts" is "Tommies" btw. Don't know why though...

interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Atkins

dont panic! wrote:

chrissicross wrote:

dont panic! wrote:

chrissicross wrote:Hmm, I've read the article on the skysport website:

The pair have alleged that they were called 'monkeys' by an, as yet, unnamed opponent, although television footage would appear to show that one incident may well involve Werder Bremen's Aaron Hunt.

I indeed remember this scene. The German commentator wondered what Ferdinand and Hunt told each other and mentioned that Hunt of course speaks perfect English.
With regard to the word monkey ("Affe" in German) it's usual meaning in Germany is the same as clown. But then again if it has a different meaning in England I would assume Hunt knows this exactly.

However considering the majority of our U21 players have a foreign background, with Matip and Boateng alone two with an African, and the very good team spirit I would really be likewise suprised and disappointed.

maybe he said 'island monkey'...the name germans give us as we call them 'krauts'?

Hmm, but then again Hunt's own mum and many of his family are "island monkeys" as well. Would be strange imo if he really said this.

Historically the German equivalent of "Krauts" is "Tommies" btw. Don't know why though...

interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Atkins

Ah, so that's were it came from. I thought it might have something to do with the wars, very interesting.

As dont panic pointed out, he said "Insel Affe" which means "island monkey". It is a term used much in the same way as Krauts. Not because he's black, but because he's English. Aaron Hunt is half English himself. Pulling the race card is boring now. God help us if Anton converts to Islam as well.

do the players speak German now?

or are they briefed before the game on which words are racist terms?

Isar Truppe wrote:As dont panic pointed out, he said "Insel Affe" which means "island monkey". It is a term used much in the same way as Krauts. Not because he's black, but because he's English. Aaron Hunt is half English himself. Pulling the race card is boring now. God help us if Anton converts to Islam as well.

Dont think anyone, on here at least, is doubting that there is more to this than a case of simple racial abuse. Sure it'll fizzle out. More than likely a misunderstanding.

Im just glad to to hear that our youngsters are holding up the age honoured traditions of Anglo-germanic rivalry, where the trading of insults is mandatory. Bloody krauts

Lusitan wrote:What i don't understand is why it seems to only happen to english teams....

Yep, I don't take 'm seriously any more.

It's like a little boy crying "wolf"...

just read elsewhere that four German clubs have been fined for racial abuse from their fans in the last few weeks..that true?(not a football website, just some German guy who posts on a website)

borocooper wrote:just read elsewhere that four German clubs have been fined for racial abuse from their fans in the last few weeks..that true?(not a football website, just some German guy who posts on a website)

Yep, that's true. We had some incidents of racial abuse in the Bundesliga and the DFB-Cup lately and considering that the DFB is trying hard to ban all these 'fans' who are insulting black players from the stadiums it would be a shame when now players are doing the same stupid stuff on the pitch.