SGE, without rooneys red card england would be now Wc winner

hahaha



is this guy on crack?

this is the most stupiest trainer in the world, he is only talking shit because he know how the english press works, wtf a disgrace

Guess he is playing to the (English) crowd because he badly needs a job, preferably in the EPL, where the money is.

blutgraetsche wrote:Guess he is playing to the (English) crowd because he badly needs a job, preferably in the EPL, where the money is.

thats what i thougt too

Yeah, coming up with excuses to make our dismal failure look better.

Even without the red card we would have lost to Portugal some other way......it is England we are speaking about.

Obviously we would've had a much better chance against Portugal without the red card, and then once you get into the semis it becomes a lottery.

We could still have won it but it would've been very difficult. Italy proved they were the team to beat at the world cup, and I don't think we would've beat them.

Deisler wrote:hahaha



is this guy on crack?

this is the most stupiest trainer in the world, he is only talking shit because he know how the english press works, wtf a disgrace

yep..pretty stupid thing to say...he would be far better just admitting that england simply were not good enough..like every other team that didnt reach the final...


what do you think by the way...seeing as you think germany are the best team in the world...was the reason for your failure at your home world cup?...not good enough?

@dontpanic

What made you so angry about everything German? I always wondered. It doesn't matter what you write about you always somehow sneak in a little something against ze germans.

Did a German babe dump you or something? You seem so bitter.

FYI, the best team doesn't always win a football cup tournament. Every kid knows that. Many people agree that Italy had one really good game in this tournament (and it wasn't the final). At the same time one weak game can kill you. (See Argentina.)

It's just how it is. Now chill out.

We could have

We were better than Portugal and France weren't amazing agaisnt Portugal and neither were Italy in the final

You sound like Tony Gale, Tweedle.

Effenberg wrote:@dontpanic

What made you so angry about everything German? I always wondered. It doesn't matter what you write about you always somehow sneak in a little something against ze germans.

Did a German babe dump you or something? You seem so bitter.

FYI, the best team doesn't always win a football cup tournament. Every kid knows that. Many people agree that Italy had one really good game in this tournament (and it wasn't the final). At the same time one weak game can kill you. (See Argentina.)

It's just how it is. Now chill out.

Dont panic only reacts to Deisler/Otto doing exactly the same thing about England. Just take it with a pinch of salt

Let's be honest, the comment from Sven is laughable, but he's never going to say 'well, taking only four strikers, one with no pace, one untested, two injured, was never a good idea, especially when I'd drilled a conservative philosophy into the team for five years' was he?

You know, the way these things get reported at this country, I wouldn't be surprised if Sven didn't mean it this way... more likely, he was asked a pointed question, and he probably got misquoted or misunderstood...

I think overall Sven did a good job at England... consistantly reaching quarters, and even making england a serious contender for top competitions, thats a good record. Hey, its not like he was coaching brazil or Italy, lets recognise that.

What did england do in the competitions before Sven??
- First round exit Euro92,
- didn't qualify for WC94,
- hosted Euro96 and lost in semis,
- second round exit in WC98, and
- first round exit in Euro2000!

When Sven took over England, they were doing terribly in the WC qualifiers and qualification looked like a dream. He not only got them qualified, but took them to the quarters. 3 successive quarterfinals (WC02, Euro04, WC06) and he left England 5th in the world ranking!

I am shocked when people call him a failure. People like Shearer, critisizing Sven's strategy on TV and calling him a fool, when they probably don't even have half of his footballing brain. Its easy to critisize, I can probably write a 10 page critique of Marcelo Lippi with valid points, but that does not change the fact that Lippi is among the top coaches in the world.

I have great respect for Sven as a manager, he is one of the finest. He did a spectacular job at Lazio, won them the scudetto, and knew how to get the best out of his star studded squad. If he were coaching Italy or Brazil in the world cup, he might have won it too...

Deisler wrote:hahaha



is this guy on crack?

this is the most stupiest trainer in the world, he is only talking shit because he know how the english press works, wtf a disgrace

I tend to agree with you Bluenine. Some of the criticism he gets is complete unjust, but I don't think he helped himself at all with the way he conducted himself, some of the foolish descisions he made and stuck with, and particularly the football he played.

The problem is - and it's going to sound like I'm bringing out the same old clichés, but until it stops being true then nothing else can be said - England expects too much.

More and more people are recognising that England aren't amongst the top 5-6 teams in the world, maybe not even the top 7-8. So, asking them to get passed the quater-finals is alot. Especially without the little luck that's needed in knock-out competitions.

I said it a while ago, but I think a good job as far as McLaren is concerned should be replicating what Sven acheived but with better football. Perhaps aiming to get to the semi's in the Euros. That should be a starting point, as it means England have acheived more than atleast 3 from France, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Holland and Italy,

I agree with Blue!

Only one thing about Rooney's red card....

With Rooney england played WORSE than without Rooney that game! So the red card gave England even more chance to win the world cup....

THe reason England played better after the red card was because he brought in Englands BEST striker: Peter Crouch!

S4P wrote:Obviously we would've had a much better chance against Portugal without the red card, and then once you get into the semis it becomes a lottery.
We could still have won it but it would've been very difficult. Italy proved they were the team to beat at the world cup, and I don't think we would've beat them.

When coaches bandy about the phrase "anything can happen" at the semi-final stage it does not equate to "a lottery".

In terms of results Sven was a good manager, but when you watch five years of woeful, 10 men behind the ball football you get frustrated. Keegan may have been incompetent, but at least he didn't play 4 right footed attacking midfielders and tell them to play 30 yards from their own goal and punt it through for Owen/Rooney to chase and expect that to work against decent teams.

ricardojol wrote:I agree with Blue!

Only one thing about Rooney's red card....

With Rooney england played WORSE than without Rooney that game! So the red card gave England even more chance to win the world cup....

THe reason England played better after the red card was because he brought in Englands BEST striker: Peter Crouch!

Exactly. The only time England looked like a good throughout the whole WC was when Rooney got a red card.

Either way, counterfactual arguments like the one Erikson is making now are quite dumb. It's like saying that if that Ecuadorian player hadn't taken 10 hours to shoot when he was one-on-one with Robinson, he would have scored and England would have never gone past the second round of the WC.

Effenberg wrote:@dontpanic

What made you so angry about everything German? I always wondered. It doesn't matter what you write about you always somehow sneak in a little something against ze germans.

Did a German babe dump you or something? You seem so bitter.

FYI, the best team doesn't always win a football cup tournament. Every kid knows that. Many people agree that Italy had one really good game in this tournament (and it wasn't the final). At the same time one weak game can kill you. (See Argentina.)

It's just how it is. Now chill out.

angry?.. ...do i look angry?....

i agreed with the original post saying that england were not good enough and that it was a stupid thing to say...i would also like to know why certain people think germany also didnt reach the final.....which excuses...

deisler is german..why shouldnt i ask him about his own countrys world cup?..if this thread would have been started by a brazilian i would ask the same about them...

Germany didn't reach the final because they lost against Italy. Quite simple.

I wouldn't call it failure though. It is after all a knock-out competition and apparently even good teams can be beaten on a given day. Germany played well against Italy but they did seem a bit sluggish and tired after their overtime-match against Argentina. But that's how it is in a World Cup. You have to win them all.

Strange how to a man the English don't rate Eriksson, and yet, most "foreigners" think that he did a reasonably good job with the limited resources at his disposal as England coach.
During his two periods of coaching Benfica, he did an exceptional job. And, he would be welcomed back by the vast majority of Benfiquistas.
As for he comments, who can argue, no one can say what would have happened if Rooney had not been sent off, Sven just happens to believe that Englands chances would have been better.

Not an issue of results, it's an issue of performances. Most players played worse for England under Sven than they did for their clubs. Consequently the team as a whole was a lot worse than the sum of its parts.

Sven may be a good club manager. Benfica - sure, very successful. Lazio - had a ton of money, but put together a very good team. England - decent range of players, shoddily coached, poor team, never learnt from his mistakes despite 5 years in the job.

Eriksson played on par with England...

3 Quarter Finals. That's a good result for England!

ricardojol wrote:Eriksson played on par with England...

3 Quarter Finals. That's a good result for England!

As I keep saying, it isn't an issue of results. If Holland had got the same results and put in the same performances then believe me, you'd be saying that the manager was a failure.

That's more DD and Axe's section....

Fair enough, but for all the nonsense said about Sven, he killed the England career of Paul Scholes, rendered Gerrard ineffective, persisted with Lampard no good reason and generally just stuck out the best 11 players for their clubs in a basic 4-4-2 and hoped for the best, which simply isn't good enough.

I didn''t agree with his tactics but that's another story but no English coach would have done it better...!

I think Eriksson started well and got England qualified.

He had a decent first game plan, but it basically it involved scoring first then defending for the remaining time, which made England look boring but effective. He had no plan to change things if England were losing, and he developed some favouritism of certain players, which was a problem when they were off-form.

He should at least have played better football with the players at his disposal.

ricardojol wrote:I didn''t agree with his tactics but that's another story but no English coach would have done it better...!

Perhaps so. Sven's happening to be foreign is neither here nor there. At least Keegan's team was watchable, even if it was dodgy as hell.

Eriksson was incompetent, no doubt

but no other manager would have managed to reach more than 3 quarters with those average players

well, maybe Rehagel, but probably not even him; let's face it, England are no Greece

-------------

bear in mind though that most managers are pretty useless; yes, even the very famous ones

van Basten is a joke; Pareira was out of his league with those primadonnas; Klinsi/Loew/Ziegenthaler cost us the World Cup; and even guys like Benitez, Wenger, Moaninho, Magath, Slomka.... are nothing special really

the importance of managers is often overrated, certainly when things go totally right or wrong

Klopp at Mainz was a miracle worker last season and is a dud now ??

ditto Doll at HSV, Veh at Stuttgart or Benitez at Liverpool ???

I don't think so

------------

England are a hopeless case; before Klinsi joined the Nationalmannschaft he said that one would have to take the DFB to pieces and start from scratch

imagine what he would have said about England; the truth is a combined force of Hitzfeld, Scolari, Hiddink and Rehagel could not reach a semi with England

like everywhere, the laws of science apply here as well; an English apple answers to Newton's law of gravity just like a French one

and England nowadays produces lots of "Fallobst"