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    Xavier Thuillot - what a twat!

    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:21 am

    So now he's blamed Man Utd for forging tickets, depsite the fact that its not happened in the EPL for years!

    What a dickwad! seriously, I just hope Lille get banned now.

    He compares it to the Feyenoord event as well saying basically that its the fault of the 'dirty foreigners' - funny how both times its happened in France and NOWHERE else - I feel really sorry for Feyenoord now, especially after what people on here were saying that basically the French were warned in advance but just let all the hooligans in!

    Why would forgeries only be made of the tickets in the Utd area? its complete bullshit.

    Lille cocked up, the police cocked up and the lot of them deserve to be PUNISHED :ale:

    In fact, just ban the whole of France from Europe until they install some decent security measures and employ some police that actually have a slight idea over what they're doing

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premiership/manchester_united/article1426579.ece

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premiership/manchester_united/article1421272.ece
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    Post by L r d Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:35 am

    It's the french police's fault. United fans bought loads of tickets for the home fans section, the police obviously realised and decide to move them all into the stand with the other United fans. Rolling Eyes

    United fans are to blame for going without tickets but just about everyone does that. The police should have anticipated it. If United fans want to risk sitting in with the Lille fans that's their perogative. They know they're going to get the shit kicked out of them if they show their allegiance.

    The whole tear-gassing was just the icing on top of the cake really. The police were desperate for United fans to play up to their stupid preconceived notions of the British hooligan.

    Death to France.
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    Post by Parks lives Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:41 am

    The French police chief was on French radio yesterday defending the tear gas, basically saying what do you expect us to do when they come to the fence. Erm
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:43 am

    It seems the same happened with Feyenoord though as the Dutch authorities warned the French polices that a lot of people would be going there without tickets and the majority of these would be hooligans - and what did the French police do? nothing, at least not until it was far too late.

    they really need to get their act sorted, for this to happen twice its just despicable.

    Thuillot is clearly an idiot. By saying what he has he's stoked the fire and probably made any sort of punishment ten times worse than it could have been. If the Lille director had been honest and admitted that they were at fault, they would have probably got away weith a stern fine, but if they now get found guilty after him pleading innocent and blaming the whole even entirely on the utd fans, I expect the punishment from UEFA will be severe.

    UEFA aren't very harsh on racism, but they come down on these matters like a ton of bricks - french football should be very worried
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:45 am

    Parks lives wrote:The French police chief was on French radio yesterday defending the tear gas, basically saying what do you expect us to do when they come to the fence. Erm

    Exactly. They're deluded idiots.

    the French police are infamous for being incompetent andyway -what with the whole french agricultural strikes in the 90's but this takes it to a whole new level. Justifying the use of tear gas in a situation like that is ridiculous
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    Post by L r d Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:52 am

    Families’ outrage at echoes of tragedy
    by Caroline Innes, Liverpool Daily Post

    FAMILIES who lost loved ones in the Hillsborough tragedy last night told of their outrage that fans’ lives were still being put at risk.

    They spoke out after thousands of Manchester United fans were caught up in a terrifying crush during their team’s European Champions League match against French club Lille.

    Those who witnessed the 1989 tragedy, which claimed 96 lives, said the scare at the Stade Felix-Bollaert – the home ground of another French club, Lens – brought back agonising memories and showed that lessons had still not been learned.

    They called on UEFA to ensure safety was improved in stadia in Europe or “another Hillsborough was just waiting to happen.”

    The crush started after supporters who had bought tickets for home side's part of the ground were moved into a stand already packed with United fans, even though there were not enough seats.

    As they pushed their way in, desperate United fans at the front were forced against metal fencing at pitchside.

    Fearing a riot, police fired tear gas and pepper spray into the crowd as scared people rattled fencing and climbed over each other.

    As supporters passed out, others lifted them up and tried to move them out of danger.

    Some, including a child, were carried away and an elderly woman guided to safety in tears. Supporters attempted to climb over the fence, and at one point they managed to open a gate, but it was quickly slammed in their faces by police officers who hit out with batons.

    Jenni Hicks lost daughters Sarah, 15, and Vicki, 19, at Hillsborough. Her ex-husband Trevor was the former chair of Hillsborough Family Support Group.

    “This was so frightening. It just shouldn’t have happened,” she said.

    “I couldn’t bear to watch as it just brought back such horrific memories.

    “It was just like Hillsborough. There was no way out and people were in dire straits. In both cases the crowd were treated like hooligans by police and officials who misjudged their desperation to escape as them trying to invade the pitch.

    “It must have been horrendous for those involved.

    “There is no place for standing in football stadiums. Anywhere where fans are caged in behind fencing is so dangerous, and I can’t believe UEFA would allow games to take place at stadiums where fans are stood behind fencing.

    “There will be another disaster unless something is done as the conditions have not improved in Europe. To do nothing is just outrageous as lives will be lost and all for the sake of a game of football.”

    Liverpool fan Brian Farrell, from Old Swan, was at Hillsborough and was one of the organisers of the campaign to stop Sun editor Kelvin MacKenzie from appearing on the BBC’s Question Time.

    Speaking from Barcelona before Liverpool’s Champions league game, he said: “This is pretty horrific.

    “We have had our disaster and in the UK lessons have been learnt, but Europe is 20 years behind us in terms of stadium safety.

    "Hillsborough should have been the end of it and it is frightening that this could happen 18 years on. This was exactly the scenario that we all went through in 1989.”

    James Entwistle, 36, director of Cheshire-based marketing agency TLC, was in the stand.

    He said: “The police were being too heavy-handed. All day, Lille fans were selling tickets outside the stadium so a lot of United fans ended up in the home section.

    “The police noticed this, so they started moving them over. There was no trouble, people were climbing fences because they were trying to get out. Then the police starting spraying tear gas, which spread across the stand.

    “What seemed like hundreds of riot police turned up. It was bizarre and completely over the top.”

    UEFA are now investigating the crush.

    UEFA spokesman Rob Faulkner said: “We cannot say now what action the disciplinary committee will take, but if they find against Lille, it could well be severe.”





    United fans a whisker away from a Hillsborough repeat
    by Mike Chapple, Liverpool Daily Post

    THE two bitterest memories of April 15, 1989, occurred both outside and inside Sheffield Wednesday’s Leppings Lane stand.

    With four minutes to kick-off, while still queuing to get in through the woefully inadequate turnstiles, a calm metallic voice announced through the Tannoy that there was no need to worry as there was plenty of room inside.

    Ever since, I’ve always associated that moment with the scene in the classic British horror film, Dead of Night, in which the hearse driver, played by Miles Malleson, looks up at the watcher at the window and announces with a grim smile: “Room for one more.”

    By then, the hapless mandarins of the South Yorkshire police had already decided to make the fateful and fatal decision to open the sliding gates that allowed 96 Liverpool fans the opportunity to be crushed to death.

    Once inside, the horror was compounded while looking down from the stand’s upper tier as a young supporter, clearly in distress, was thrown back into the crush by a policeman manning a small gate in the merciless metal fencing at the front of the terrace.

    The suspicious mind would allow itself to believe that this was one of the officers who later appealed and received massive compensation for post-traumatic stress disorder from the state, while the families of the victims received precisely nothing.

    Despite the deep scars that will always remain from that truly dreadful day, though, lessons have been learned and more lives undoubtedly duly saved.

    But only in this country.

    For years, European football has adopted a cavalier attitude continuing to look on British football fans as animals while ignoring the festering problems on their own doorstep.

    This British "wildlife" now enjoys safe modern stadia, meticulous ticketing procedures, and a post-Taylor Report police force more understanding of the delicacies of crowd control. Not so in the likes of Italy and France. The former’s Serie A football season is now in meltdown after the Sicilian derby match riots between Catania and Palermo, in Sicily, when policeman Filippo Raciti was killed.

    And now this.

    Liverpool fans, of course, have an inherent hatred for Manchester United.

    But hatred, within reason, is allowed in football, which is what makes it such a beautiful game to supporters and incomprehensible to the non-believer.

    There do come times, however, when British football fans bury their rivalry and unite in a common bond, a universal spirit of understanding, especially against injustice.

    Hillsborough was such a time. Tuesday night in Lens, where Manchester United faced Lille, and was perhaps a whisker away from being a repeat, was another.

    Our hearts will always remain with those who died in 1989. In other ways, though, time has moved on in this country for the mutual benefit and safety of all supporters.

    Not so it appears elsewhere, where time stands still and football fans are treated as the 96 who lost their lives were, nearly 18 years ago.

    Like pigs.
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    Post by Cesc Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:56 am

    Feel sick after reading that second article.

    pale
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:05 am

    Its a disgrace! I can't believe Thuillot has the audacity to shift the blame onto Man Utd's fans.

    From every single thing i've read, it seems that Lille and the Police are fully calpable - its only making the situation worse that Lille are trying to shift the blame - at least at Heysel and Hillsborough - the people at blame were quick to admit it. Here though, Thuillot et. al. are acting like complete imbeciles. It seems as well that the French media are completely mis-reporting the whole story, following Thuillot's line that it was basically down the 'thuggish english golligans' - no doubt when a decision is made on this, the French will clame that is was a travesty of justice and that man Utd only got their way 'because they're a big club' Rolling Eyes
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    Post by Saintsar Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:20 am

    I do find it amusing that on this forum, Hillsborough strikes up deeper feelings than Waco...

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    Both are terrible incidents, of course. And the desperate attempts by the French to shift the blame deserve punishment in their own right, regardless of the their actual failings on Tuesday. Throw them out of the fucking tournament. Not to give Man U an easier time of it, but as an example to other clubs.
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:23 am

    Saintsarama MBE wrote:I do find it amusing that on this forum, Hillsborough strikes up deeper feelings than Waco...


    Really?

    This is a football forum you know Smile
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    Post by Saintsar Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:25 am

    Well, Hillsborough was a tragedy of incompetence (a proper Greek tragedy) whereas Waco was a tragedy of deliberate conspiracy (a modern tragedy).

    I suppose it depends on your taste in drama. Or lack of it.
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:28 am

    Saintsarama MBE wrote:Well, Hillsborough was a tragedy of incompetence (a proper Greek tragedy) whereas Waco was a tragedy of deliberate conspiracy (a modern tragedy).

    I suppose it depends on your taste in drama. Or lack of it.

    I'm imagining that last comment wasn't aimed at me, seems as I was probably the only person on here apart from yourself and Roger that was interested in it.

    Back on to the original post though, apparently the decision is going to be made later today, my manc friend at work informed me, has anyone else heard this?
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    Post by Cesc Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:33 am

    From UEFA?

    Surely they will let the result stand.

    I can'r believe the French Officials are comparing the Man Utd fans to the Feyenoord fans from a few months ago.
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:39 am

    Cesc wrote:From UEFA?

    Surely they will let the result stand.

    I can'r believe the French Officials are comparing the Man Utd fans to the Feyenoord fans from a few months ago.

    Of course they'll let the result stand.

    I'm pretty sure they'll be making the more iportant decision regarding things off the pitch as well though. Its not looking good for Lille.

    - they attempt to walk off the pitch
    - they're fans hurl missiles at the Utd players
    - the club move all the Utd fans into too small an area
    - the police act to heavy handed
    - the club AND the police blame it all on utd when its clearly their fault.

    I smell a banning
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    Post by L r d Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:43 am

    Hopefully they ban all French clubs. And France from international competiton.

    And drop a bomb on them.
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:50 am

    Obispo wrote:Hopefully they ban all French clubs. And France from international competiton.

    And drop a bomb on them.

    They could justify banning all French clubs for a year I suspect - and ask them to install 'suitable' improvements to the stadia
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:51 am

    Obispo wrote:Hopefully they ban all French clubs. And France from international competiton.

    And drop a bomb on them.

    Where does this 'Francophobia' feelings derive from?
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    Post by L r d Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:55 am

    Rai Krol wrote:
    Obispo wrote:Hopefully they ban all French clubs. And France from international competiton.

    And drop a bomb on them.

    Where does this 'Francophobia' feelings derive from?

    Henry, Wenger, Arnaud, Zidane, Bordeaux, Hoofier's final 3 seasons - take your pick.

    Bunch of surrender monkey cunts ok
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:59 am

    Obispo wrote:
    Rai Krol wrote:
    Obispo wrote:Hopefully they ban all French clubs. And France from international competiton.

    And drop a bomb on them.

    Where does this 'Francophobia' feelings derive from?

    Henry, Wenger, Arnaud, Zidane, Bordeaux, Hoofier's final 3 seasons - take your pick.

    Bunch of surrender monkey cunts ok

    Groundskeeper Willie: "'Bonjourrr', you cheese-eating surrender monkeys" say it right Cool

    Not liking a couple of Frenchmen, does not mean hating everyone ..

    I can understand it was frustrating under Houllier plus Wenger and Henry are rarely 'honest' about poor performances when Arsenal do have them ..
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    Post by Parks lives Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:03 pm

    As my Dad used to always say.

    France: Great country, shame about the people.
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    Post by Saintsar Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:04 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    Saintsarama MBE wrote:Well, Hillsborough was a tragedy of incompetence (a proper Greek tragedy) whereas Waco was a tragedy of deliberate conspiracy (a modern tragedy).

    I suppose it depends on your taste in drama. Or lack of it.

    I'm imagining that last comment wasn't aimed at me, seems as I was probably the only person on here apart from yourself and Roger that was interested in it.

    The 'you' in the 'your' was generic, not specific. It certainly was not aimed at you.

    Back on to the original post though, apparently the decision is going to be made later today, my manc friend at work informed me, has anyone else heard this?

    Exactly what I heard, but that seems incredibly efficient for UEFA, so we'll have to wait and see.


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    Post by L r d Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:04 pm

    Parks lives wrote:
    France: Great country, shame about the people.

    ok

    When I come across a Frenchman that doesn't play up to the very obvious stereotypes then I'll reconsider my opinion of them.
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:07 pm

    Obispo wrote:
    Parks lives wrote:
    France: Great country, shame about the people.

    ok

    When I come across a Frenchman that doesn't play up to the very obvious stereotypes then I'll reconsider my opinion of them.

    Judging people through stereotypes is very wrong, you can believe everyone is the same through lies perceived by many.
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    Post by Saintsar Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:09 pm

    You mean the Dutch aren't all stoned pimps on bicycles?
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    Post by L r d Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:09 pm

    Rai Krol wrote:
    Judging people through stereotypes is very wrong.

    Oh hush up and go have a joint in your windmill, Cloggs.
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:10 pm

    I used to hold this opinion on the French but I've been a few times more recently and met some people and got on really well with them - probably because I speak French well and they appreciate that - I remember meeting a group of friends one night when I was hostelling in Montpellier and they all invited me out clubbing with them and then back to theirs for a party - had a great time and all of them were really sound people ok
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:11 pm

    Obispo wrote:
    Rai Krol wrote:
    Judging people through stereotypes is very wrong.

    Oh hush up and go have a joint in your windmill, Cloggs.

    How i knew your were going to say something like that; i dont smoke and i never wore any wooden shoes Whistle

    As the bigger man, i wont mention any woolly animals.
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    Post by L r d Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:12 pm

    Rai Krol wrote:
    As the bigger man, i wont mention any woolly animals.

    Because you have a client down in your dungeon about to mount one? Razz
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:15 pm

    Obispo wrote:
    Rai Krol wrote:
    As the bigger man, i wont mention any woolly animals.

    Because you have a client down in your dungeon about to mount one? Razz

    I'm sorry but you must have me mistaken .. you must have described your monthly ritual/hobby .. Cool
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    Post by Parks lives Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:16 pm

    Tweedle wrote:I used to hold this opinion on the French but I've been a few times more recently and met some people and got on really well with them - probably because I speak French well and they appreciate that - I remember meeting a group of friends one night when I was hostelling in Montpellier and they all invited me out clubbing with them and then back to theirs for a party - had a great time and all of them were really sound people ok

    Probably blokes thinking you were giving out.

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