are England a TOP 20 - team ?

an astonishing 18 people voted England into the TOP TEN only a few days ago

over the last few days we have seen them against Israel and Andorra; hardly giants of world football

as an example, Croatia recently went to Israel and scored 4 (away)

England merely got a 0:0

Andorra , meanwhile, have lost ALL of the their qualifying matches in the past; something like 22 out of 22

they concede an average of 4.75 goals per game

England scored merely 3

------------

flashback to the World Cup qualifying campaign

Poland scored 50% more goals than England against the same opponents

with players like Frankovski and Co; England had Rooeny, Owen, Gerrard, Lampard...

T&T were England's equal at the World Cup as well; only by pulling them rasta-locks did Crouch manage to score

-----------------

so let's change the question

are England a TOP TWENTY team ?

Croatia beat Israel

4-3 away


Wednesday, 15 November 2006

Israel 3 (Colautti 8, 89, Benayoun 68)
Croatia 4 (Srna 35(pen), Eduardo 39, 54, 72)

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:
Poland scored 50% more goals than England against the same opponents

*they* have a Dutch manager

@rai

I corrected it now; thanks

I meant to say Croatia have scored 4 in Isreal, whilst England could not breach their defence once

Otto - you are obsessed.

Northern Ireland beat Sweden
Serbia drew with Portugal
Holland narrowly beat Slovenia
Greece narrowly beat Malta
Germany lost to Denmark
Italy narrowly beat Scotland (ok, deservedly, but Scots should have had a pen)

No one is playing particularly well, so yes, England are and you know it

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:@rai

I corrected it now; thanks

I meant to say Croatia have scored 4 in Isreal, whilst England could not breach their defence once

I think Israel might have feared England more than they feared Croatia .. plus Israel were missing 3 key players (2 happen to score last night)

against Croatia .. Israel played 'football'

against England .. Israel (don't want to be disrespectful) did not play 'football'

Still .. England do have the players who can break the siege.

Axeslammer wrote:

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:
Poland scored 50% more goals than England against the same opponents

*they* have a Dutch manager

so does Oranje

I Am Weasel wrote: Otto - you are beautiful.

easy Tiger; not in front of the children

besides; you have not even seen me yet

I Am Weasel wrote:
Northern Ireland beat Sweden
Serbia drew with Portugal
Holland narrowly beat Slovenia
Greece narrowly beat Malta
Germany lost to Denmark
Italy narrowly beat Scotland (ok, deservedly, but Scots should have had a pen)

No one is playing particularly well, so yes, England are and you know it

Holland and even Italy struggling at the moment is not news; on current standing they are not amongst the top boys, I'm afraid

Greece are over the hill; they peaked in 2004 and are wilting; what else did you expect?

Serbia drawing Portugal: both teams are very good; nobody can dominate all the time

Sweden had their hiccup as well; we all do

Germany played a cross of a B-/C-Team mixed with our U-21; novices most of them who had never played together before; anything other than a loss would have been a surprise

-------------

England, meanwhile, have been producing games like those over the last 5 days for nearly 4 years now: CONSISTENTLY

name me ONE SINGLE top class game by England over the last 4 years against GOOD opposition

even if you could; it's the EXCEPTION

------------

when Puro says that England are somewhere between 27 th and 40th in the world , he is SPOT ON

Italy not one of the 'big boys' .. are you for real?

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:

I Am Weasel wrote: Otto - you are beautiful.

easy Tiger; not in front of the children

besides; you have not even seen me yet

I Am Weasel wrote:
Northern Ireland beat Sweden
Serbia drew with Portugal
Holland narrowly beat Slovenia
Greece narrowly beat Malta
Germany lost to Denmark
Italy narrowly beat Scotland (ok, deservedly, but Scots should have had a pen)

No one is playing particularly well, so yes, England are and you know it

Holland and even Italy struggling at the moment is not news; on current standing they are not amongst the top boys, I'm afraid

Greece are over the hill; they peaked in 2004 and are wilting; what else did you expect?

Serbia drawing Portugal: both teams are very good; nobody can dominate all the time

Sweden had their hiccup as well; we all do

Germany played a cross of a B-/C-Team mixed with our U-21; novices most of them who had never played together before; anything other than a loss would have been a surprise

-------------

England, meanwhile, have been producing games like those over the last 5 days for nearly 4 years now: CONSISTENTLY

name me ONE SINGLE top class game by England over the last 4 years against GOOD opposition

even if you could; it's the EXCEPTION

------------

when Puro says that England are somewhere between 27 th and 40th in the world , he is SPOT ON

Name me ONE SINGLE top class game by Chelsea over the last 2 years against GOOD opposition? A handful at most. Fact is they arent losing many.

England are the same. Fluidity wise they are poor and have been since the end of Euro2004, but equally in that time have lost 2 competitive games in that time.

Results at the end of the day are what count, and whilst I wholeheartedly agree England are a terrible side at the moment to watch, you cant argue with the results - Quarter finals in WC and Euro Cup - which ultimately makes them easily a top 20 side.

Italy are one of the PERMANENT TOP 3

Germany, Brazil, Italy: and can win any Cup they enter even if their form is shaky

still, on current form, Italy are hardly setting the world alight

ask Donadoni himself; had he lost yesterday ( a distinct possibility) , he could have been out of a job

hardly the status of a TOP TEAM manager

Rai Krol wrote:Italy not one of the 'big boys' .. are you for real?

He's on the wind up. Amazing how brazen and chirpy he's become since Germany started looking half decent through the World Cup and seemingly after it.

He who laughs last laughs loudest

I Am Weasel wrote:

Rai Krol wrote:Italy not one of the 'big boys' .. are you for real?

He's on the wind up. Amazing how brazen and chirpy he's become since Germany started looking half decent through the World Cup and seemingly after it.

He who laughs last laughs loudest

Most likely ..

england is a shit team, thats enough

and no and never top 20, they can be happy if they pricks qualify for the tournament

kroatia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>england
germany>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> england

Deisler, you give WUM a bad name.

Deisler wrote:england is a shit team, thats enough

and no and never top 20, they can be happy if they pricks qualify for the tournament

kroatia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>england
germany>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> england

I think you misplaced a ">" at two-thirds

Denmark > Germany

Deisler wrote:
kroatia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>england>>>>>>>germany

Deisler wrote:england is a shit team, thats enough

and no and never top 20, they can be happy if they pricks qualify for the tournament

kroatia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>england
germany>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> england

You sir, are a credit to your nation. Otto must be more proud of you than anything your footballers, athletes, artists or politicians could muster; and the reason why Germany is much loved by all nationalities around the World.

Cheers

Rai Krol wrote:Deisler, you give WUM a bad name.

Isnt that a Bon Jovi song?

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:
Poland scored 50% more goals than England against the same opponents

*they* have a Dutch manager

so does Oranje

Beg to differ.

He's a Dutchman, but no manager

@ pele

did you know that we call Bernd Schneider, the "white Brazilian"

considering your own "white pele" name of the olden days, I will rename you "BERND"

------------

your "CONSECUTIVE QUARTER FINAL" argument does not work really

it's popular on this board, but totally misguided

it lot has to do with the "luck of the draw" and "seedings"

take Germany 2006

England had a RIDICULOUS qualifying group; a complete farce with Poland being the only serious opponents; Austria, N.Ireland, Wales, Azerbaijan...

predictably, England topped the group; but would they have done the same in Denmark's group ???

next, Fifa decides to SEED them; where really they could have decided not to do so

then, England avoid the Czechs or Dutch in the World Cup groups and get Sweden, T&T, Paraguay... and Ecuador in the second round and struggle against all of them

by now, England are in the QUARTERS already , when really they are probably worse than Denmark who failed to qualify at all because of their ridiculously difficult group

GET IT ??

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:when Puro says that England are somewhere between 27 th and 40th in the world , he is SPOT ON

would you care to list your top 40 in the world, and back up the order you chose with something other than rhetoric or 'evidence' from one-off games? (i.e. saying croatia scored 4 against israel and england scored 0 would not be sufficient evidence to put croatia ahead of england)

*waits for the 'i haven't got time for that' response*

I Am Weasel wrote:

Rai Krol wrote:Deisler, you give WUM a bad name.

Isnt that a Bon Jovi song?

no ... that's " You Give Love a Bad Name"

Deisler shows no love ..

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:@ pele

did you know that we call Bernd Schneider, the "white Brazilian"

considering your own "white pele" name of the olden days, I will rename you "BERND"

------------

your "CONSECUTIVE QUARTER FINAL" argument does not work really

it's popular on this board, but totally misguided

it lot has to do with the "luck of the draw" and "seedings"

take Germany 2006

England had a RIDICULOUS qualifying group; a complete farce with Poland being the only serious opponents; Austria, N.Ireland, Wales, Azerbaijan...

predictably, England topped the group; but would they have done the same in Denmark's group ???

next, Fifa decides to SEED them; where really they could have decided not to do so

then, England avoid the Czechs or Dutch in the World Cup groups and get Sweden, T&T, Paraguay... and Ecuador in the second round and struggle against all of them

by now, England are in the QUARTERS already , when really they are probably worse than Denmark who failed to qualify at all because of their ridiculously difficult group

GET IT ??

So like Germany's run in WC 2002 you mean?

The stats say it all Otto, the very ones you dragged up. England have only ever lost 8 qualifiers, and are the closest nation to Germany's record. Pretty sizzling hot for a side not even top 20 I reckon!

I presume this whole top 20/40 business is you at you're stirring best, because an intelligent chap like you knows you cannot just bend the stats to suit your argument and then dismiss them when they dont

One thing we can agree on- England are p*ss poor to watch and have been for last 3 years. Still doesnt mean they cant beat teams who are more exciting to watch, club football should prove that on a weekly basis

PS - you must be proud of Deisler's constructive contributions to your thread. Typical humble friendly German eh?

debaser wrote:

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:when Puro says that England are somewhere between 27 th and 40th in the world , he is SPOT ON

would you care to list your top 40 in the world, and back up the order you chose with something other than rhetoric or 'evidence' from one-off games? (i.e. saying croatia scored 4 against israel and england scored 0 would not be sufficient evidence to put croatia ahead of england)

*waits for the 'i haven't got time for that' response*

a VERY time-consuming exercise indeed

if you wire a significant amount of Euros (of your chosing) onto my Zuerich bank account (0933958362947), I'll gladly let you have my top 40

information like that comes at a premium on the black market

I notice the credence you've now given to Denmark now they've beaten Das Wunderteam. Presumably they are top 10!

Denmark> Germany

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:

debaser wrote:

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:when Puro says that England are somewhere between 27 th and 40th in the world , he is SPOT ON

would you care to list your top 40 in the world, and back up the order you chose with something other than rhetoric or 'evidence' from one-off games? (i.e. saying croatia scored 4 against israel and england scored 0 would not be sufficient evidence to put croatia ahead of england)

*waits for the 'i haven't got time for that' response*

a VERY time-consuming exercise indeed

if you wire a significant amount of Euros (of your chosing) onto my Zuerich bank account (0933958362947), I'll gladly let you have my top 40

information like that comes at a premium on the black market

alas, i have not the money to spend on information. i am saving up for a glass of wine when i visit the new wembley

Denmark had their A-team

the one that defeated England 4:1

Loew, rather bizarrly, and to the fury of the Duisburg fans who whistled their teeth out, fielded a cross between the B-Team, C-Team and the U-21

most of them international novices, some of them Bundesliga subs, and Helmes only the 6th SECOND BUNDESLIGA player in the history of the Nationalmannschaft

it's a one-off Loew cannot and will not pull off again

reminded me of the bizarre decision to put Trochowski onto the Nationalmannschaft bench when really the U-21 was heading for THE crucial qualifier against England

Dotter und Blitzen wrote:Denmark had their A-team

the one that defeated England 4:1

Loew, rather bizarrly, and to the fury of the Duisburg fans who whistled their teeth out, fielded a cross between the B-Team, C-Team and the U-21

most of them international novices, some of them Bundesliga subs, and Helmes only the 6th SECOND BUNDESLIGA player in the history of the Nationalmannschaft

it's a one-off Loew cannot and will not pull off again

reminded me of the bizarre decision to put Trochowski onto the Nationalmannschaft bench when really the U-21 was heading for THE crucial qualifier against England

Denmark > Germany