Return of the English dynasty in Europe ?

All the top leagues are the same, virtually the same 3 qualify every year: e.g. Juve, Milan, Inter + 1 other (usually Roma), Barca, Real, Valencia + 1 other (valencia has slipped up a couple of times but are usually there or thereabouts).

The difference is in the EPL where there used to be 3: manu, arsenal, liverpool. Then abramovich came along with his money and now they have 4 with chelsea.

The EPL is the strongest league in Europe. Even though people point to luck etc, the English teams are not lucky to be where they are, deservedly beating teams like barcelona, valencia, roma etc.

With puro talking crap about the money issue, real=chelsea=inter and the rest are all comparable.

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:as has been said its not good for english football if these teams keep on qualifing.of course currently the teams simply arent that good so they can justify that they should get a place from these teams.it could be a small thing that changes it like just a really bad season from arsenal which are the team most likely to fall out as i see it allthough they are still better then the teams below.

Who cares if it's the same 4 qualifying every season? you still have to do well to get to the semi's as United, Chelsea and you would think Liverpool have, it's not easy to make it this far, besides we saw what happened when a team that doesn't normally qualify i.e Everton qualified for the CL they couldn't handle it

You've just highlighted the problem there luis, the best teams outside the top 4 don't have enough quality to stay there.


And BTW, everyone that's not a top 4 fan cares.

If the teams are not able to stay there e.g. like everton that's not liverpool or arsenal's fault, it's everton's. Spurs did well last season only just missing out then became crap this season, again not the fault of the top 4. Also newcastle's failures are not the fault of the top 4 they are newcastle's fault. If bolton manage to stay close to the top 4 season after season, then newcastle and spurs are at fualt for not doing better than bolton with far more money.

Kimbo seems to think that the big 4 have som sort of moral duty to give all their money to the lower clubs by the sounds of things.

Aside from Chelsea, the other 3 teams have got to their position through a combination of good management both on and off the pitch

Congrats to the English dominance in the CL this year... (overall Spain did still better over the last 5 years)

But to be honest this is my worst nightmare. It is another example the Champions League is hugely failing. There is no European competition anymore which is bad for European football!

The scandal in Italy cost them strength this year. Spain is slowly losing their dominant position in Europe.

The worst European finals are finals between to clubs from the same country....

Milan - Juventus was ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Real Madrid - Valencia was also ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ An all England final is also a game between two (quite) similar styles and same kind of support! Half of the fun of football is two different cultures are fighting each other in their own way! That's international football....

From Now I support Bayern Munich to reach the finals for more than 110% to save international football a tiny bit!

On the other hand, if a club have to win it I hope Chelsea because they never had won this highly profiling trophy!

Ranking of my support to win it is:

1 Chelsea (never won it)
2 Bayern (to save European football)
..
4 Man Utd (always better than boring Liverpool)
..
..
^
\/
..
..
99 Liverpool (my worst nightmare if this average team wins it again)

I see you guys thinking..... but Milan....? But .... Who the F@ck are Milan! They are too old...

The calciopoli scandal hit Italys prospects in the CL this season.

Next season will be impacted too... the 15 point penalty to Fiorentina means that they will again not make it for the 2nd season inspite of getting enough points to finish in top 4. Juve will just make it to Serie A, so they won't be there either.

Italys representatives for next season are likely to be: Inter, Roma, Lazio, & Milan. I think they will be better than this season, but probably don't have as much of a chance as the english teams. Maybe the season after that, when Inter, Milan, Juve and Fiorentina make it with Roma and Lazio in the UEFA Cup (if they take it seriously, tho I doubt it). Then Italy will be back.

I guess the calciopoli cost Italy 2 under performing seasons in europe. So the EPL domination is temporary IMO.

While all football domination is temporary, Italy was already losing pace before the scandal. Milan are like Liverpool always good in Europe and the main reason for the Italians to be rated. Inter and Roma (or whoever was the 4th) have constantly underperformed, and Juve have been slipping away since the last time they reached the final in 2003. They lost in the quarterfinals in 2004 and didn't even make the quarter finals in 2005. This was before the scandal, which has obviously added to the slide.

You will find it surprising that in the last 5 years Inter have performed better than most english teams if not all. uefa rankings reflect that. Its just that Inter have under-performed at the later stages, and thats been very disappointing. But if this consistancy continues, one season Inter will go all the way in the very near future.

Stop putting Inter and Roma in the same bracket... Inter are ranking 3rd by uefa as per last 5 seasons performance in CL... higher than any english team, tho that might chnage after this season. Specially after the 02/03 season goes out of contention

110% wrote:While all football domination is temporary, Italy was already losing pace before the scandal. Milan are like Liverpool always good in Europe and the main reason for the Italians to be rated. Inter and Roma (or whoever was the 4th) have constantly underperformed, and Juve have been slipping away since the last time they reached the final in 2003. They lost in the quarterfinals in 2004 and didn't even make the quarter finals in 2005. This was before the scandal, which has obviously added to the slide.

Puro wrote:

SteveOoO wrote:

It is essentially the same for Spain and Italy, and Germany for that matter, its the same teams from every league that keep doing well in the CL.

No pal! La Liga almost always puts two different teams other than their giants Barcelona and Real Madrid. Last season it was Valencia and Osasuna. The season before that, Villarreal and Betis. Prior to that, Valencia and Deportivo. Before that, Real Sociedad and Celta. Before that Valencia and Deportivo again. Mallorca and Deportivo...Zaragoza and Deportivo....Mallorca and Valencia...Bilbao and Real Sociedad....and on and on and on.

Serie A is similar in this aspect.

I meant its always the same teams who are doing well, the lesser teams tend to go out early. England has had other teams in the Champs recently but they've been crap, similar with Italy, Spain and Germany (though Weder were a bit unlucky to be drawn with Barca and Chelsea).

A quick search shows that Inter made the semi final agianst Milan 5 years ago. The year after didn't get out of the group, then made 2 quarter finals in a row, then lost this year in a round of 16. They have done pretty well, but they got the furthest 5 years ago.

Liverpool have won it. Arsenal been to the final (but they also underperform). Chelsea I think have been the unluckiest, losing to Monaco after being ahead in a semi-final, losing to liverpool in the semi-final the year they won, losing to barcelona last year when barcelona won etc. Inter might be ranked higher than chelsea, but chelsea are in the semi-final again this year, which makes it 3 semis in 5 years or something.

I didn't put Inter and ROma in the same bracket, I put them in the same sentence. They both underperform in the CL.

bluenine wrote:You will find it surprising that in the last 5 years Inter have performed better than most english teams if not all. uefa rankings reflect that. Its just that Inter have under-performed at the later stages, and thats been very disappointing. But if this consistancy continues, one season Inter will go all the way in the very near future.

Stop putting Inter and Roma in the same bracket... Inter are ranking 3rd by uefa as per last 5 seasons performance in CL... higher than any english team, tho that might chnage after this season. Specially after the 02/03 season goes out of contention

110% wrote:While all football domination is temporary, Italy was already losing pace before the scandal. Milan are like Liverpool always good in Europe and the main reason for the Italians to be rated. Inter and Roma (or whoever was the 4th) have constantly underperformed, and Juve have been slipping away since the last time they reached the final in 2003. They lost in the quarterfinals in 2004 and didn't even make the quarter finals in 2005. This was before the scandal, which has obviously added to the slide.

110% wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:as has been said its not good for english football if these teams keep on qualifing.of course currently the teams simply arent that good so they can justify that they should get a place from these teams.it could be a small thing that changes it like just a really bad season from arsenal which are the team most likely to fall out as i see it allthough they are still better then the teams below.

Who cares if it's the same 4 qualifying every season? you still have to do well to get to the semi's as United, Chelsea and you would think Liverpool have, it's not easy to make it this far, besides we saw what happened when a team that doesn't normally qualify i.e Everton qualified for the CL they couldn't handle it

You've just highlighted the problem there luis, the best teams outside the top 4 don't have enough quality to stay there.


And BTW, everyone that's not a top 4 fan cares.

If the teams are not able to stay there e.g. like everton that's not liverpool or arsenal's fault, it's everton's. Spurs did well last season only just missing out then became crap this season, again not the fault of the top 4. Also newcastle's failures are not the fault of the top 4 they are newcastle's fault. If bolton manage to stay close to the top 4 season after season, then newcastle and spurs are at fualt for not doing better than bolton with far more money.

Who's saying it's the fault of the top 4? That's not what i'm saying at all.

I agree with Ricardo in the which team to support. Bayern because of fellow Inca Warrior Claudio Pizarro, and "to save football". Chelsea because they've never won it. Liverpool because of The Beatles. The Mancs because they're really an American team. Milan because of "to save football".

So whats your order Puro, 1-5.

Parks lives wrote:So whats your order Puro, 1-5.

Just like I wrote with Bayern getting most of my support.

If Pizarro starts their matches, I really like Bayern's chances to win it all. Hitzfeld benches the team's most prolific goalscorer in this season's CL. The game has passed the old guy. He's done everything to eliminate Bayern, but was lucky that Capello outcoached him in that department. And, Milan have no firepower.

So

1. Bayern
2. Man United
3. Milan
4. Chelsea
5. Liverpool

The champions league makes me really depressing. I was glad we got rid of the Italian dominance in the late 80's and 90's But in those days smaller teams would have had a chance to sneak through sometimes with good management!

Today with the big-leagues-cock-sucking-UEFA It is clearly impossible....

Ricardo Jol wrote:The champions league makes me really depressing. I was glad we got rid of the Italian dominance in the late 80's and 90's But in those days smaller teams would have had a chance to sneak through sometimes with good management!

Today with the big-leagues-cock-sucking-UEFA It is clearly impossible....

Surely it should be - UEFA-cock-sucking-big-leagues

Ricardo Jol wrote:The champions league makes me really depressing. I was glad we got rid of the Italian dominance in the late 80's and 90's But in those days smaller teams would have had a chance to sneak through sometimes with good management!

Today with the big-leagues-cock-sucking-UEFA It is clearly impossible....

What the hell are you on about?

Back then Italy had more money than the EPL does now - £30m transfers were commonplace

Tweedle wrote:

Ricardo Jol wrote:The champions league makes me really depressing. I was glad we got rid of the Italian dominance in the late 80's and 90's But in those days smaller teams would have had a chance to sneak through sometimes with good management!

Today with the big-leagues-cock-sucking-UEFA It is clearly impossible....

What the hell are you on about?

Back then Italy had more money than the EPL does now - £30m transfers were commonplace

What are you on about...?

Well ok, in the 80s for a start, the competition was pretty weak -at least compared to today. And what teams made it through and won it? Redstar is the only one I can think of.

And only two years ago Porto won it...

Ajax... Marseille..., Dortmund....Red Star Are all non top three league clubs who won it....

Porto, PSV Steaua etc... in the 80's....

That was largely coz it was a KO competition with only 1 representative from each league.

Ricardo Jol wrote:Ajax... Marseille..., Dortmund....Red Star Are all non top three league clubs who won it....

Porto, PSV Steaua etc... in the 80's....

Let's hop the English arrogance will turn them down (again) the next
year so teams from another than the big three can win it again....

But that's just wishful thinking!

bluenine wrote:That was largely coz it was a KO competition with only 1 representative from each league.

Ricardo Jol wrote:Ajax... Marseille..., Dortmund....Red Star Are all non top three league clubs who won it....

Porto, PSV Steaua etc... in the 80's....

It was a harder competition to get into because only the champions could get in. However once you were in it was an easier competition to win than it is now since there were less competititve teams.

Ricardo Jol wrote:Let's hop the English arrogance will turn them down (again) the next
year so teams from another than the big three can win it again....

But that's just wishful thinking!

And you claim not to be anti-English!

Jesus wept, no-one in England complained when we only had three spots and Germany had four but now england has four and are doing well you act like its all our fault!

Ricardo Jol wrote:Let's hop the English arrogance will turn them down (again) the next
year so teams from another than the big three can win it again....

Kind of ironic. That you are against money but support the team which dominates its domestic league with its money.

You should be for liverpool (if PSV go out) as the ones who have spent the least to get into the CL semi-finals.

fc den haag don't dominate the eredivisie..(yet)

Tweedle wrote:

Ricardo Jol wrote:Let's hop the English arrogance will turn them down (again) the next
year so teams from another than the big three can win it again....

But that's just wishful thinking!

And you claim not to be anti-English!

Jesus wept, no-one in England complained when we only had three spots and Germany had four but now england has four and are doing well you act like its all our fault!

Ow gosh..., Here we go again...

no comeback then?

If holland had four teams I guarantee you'd be keeping schtum over all of this

Tweedle wrote:no comeback then?

If holland had four teams I guarantee you'd be keeping schtum over all of this

No, If the Netherlands would have had 3 teams in the semis I wouldn't like that either.... We are lucky because that will never happen!!!!!!!!!

A country that is too dominant makes international football look like local football.....

ONE year later.