Italy vs Scotland thread... bring it on!!

Must applaud Donadoni for selcting a good squad & fielding a formation that worked well.

bluenine wrote:
Like I have been saying this year, Donadoni has been doing a remarkable job. It wasn't an easy comeback after the first 2 games, specially without Nesta and Totti, but Donadoni has made most of the right decisions. I think his Azzurri can win it all. Look forward to him giving the kids a chance against Faroe Islands in the last game...

Haha! This stopped me crying into my corn flakes this morning!



Ps The referee for the Scotland-Italy game on Saturday, Manuel Gonzalez, was treated to a lavish meal at Gattuso's father-in-law's restaurant after the game on Saturday night! Is that an innocuous action or is it fair to construe it as a potential conflict of interest? Probably for the former and probably not (verging on paranoia) for the latter of the two.

Not sure if the Italian squad joined him and the rest of the officiating team?

Apparently it was, as I thought, the linesman that awarded the FK to Italy anyway, not Manuel Gonzalez.

pps He is in competition with another Spanish ref for representing Spain at next year's Euro 2008. Is his place in jeopardy now?

rza wrote:I just want to comment on Spain and England being big guns.
We don't see South Africa being called a big gun in Africa even though they were African champs in '96, finalists in '98, bronze winners in '00, quaterfinalists in '02 and '04.

I know this is not what the Spanish and English want to hear, but they are nowhere near being big guns, they are merely overhyped teams. Now Portugal and Holland can be forgiven and be called 2-tier big guns.

Wrong thread dimbo

While most of us Italians applauded the Scottish for their brave and spirited fight on saturday, till all this moaning and the "we wuz robbed" headlines have left a verybad taste. I have lost all respect for McLeish since, he needs to learn what a dignified response is all about.

If anything, the refreeing decisions went in favour of the Scots. Di Natale had scored. The scottish goal was definately offisde. And yet you guys cry over a wrong free kick decision? That only resulted in a goal due to some poor defending by the scottish. But the Italian goal was "robbed" by the refree, who also scored for the Scots! If anything, the "right" scoreline should have been a more comfortable 2-0 for Italy. The scots were playing at home, with a great crowd behind you, in rainy conditions which suited you a lot, and were beaten DESPITE dodgy refreeing decisions in your favour. Not because of them. Italy were just more clinical on that day.

So please don't spoil what was a great spirited qualifying campaign with all these ridiculous conspiracy theories.

The Bulk wrote:Haha! This stopped me crying into my corn flakes this morning!

Ps The referee for the Scotland-Italy game on Saturday, Manuel Gonzalez, was treated to a lavish meal at Gattuso's father-in-law's restaurant after the game on Saturday night! Is that an innocuous action or is it fair to construe it as a potential conflict of interest? Probably for the former and probably not (verging on paranoia) for the latter of the two.

Not sure if the Italian squad joined him and the rest of the officiating team?

Apparently it was, as I thought, the linesman that awarded the FK to Italy anyway, not Manuel Gonzalez.

pps He is in competition with another Spanish ref for representing Spain at next year's Euro 2008. Is his place in jeopardy now?

Not really conspiracy thoeries mate just pointing out a strange situation.
I think any team that had been knocked out in the final minute of a campaign where they had done so well would react with some diapointment at the way we lost.

Losing respect for McLeish ???? Don't see why. the free kick wasn't a free kick that's all he said.

Offside goal etc have been mentioned by the Scottish fans and press as well so no need to go back into that, however the number of 50/50 decisions big teams get against 'lesser' sides in important games from League,Champions League to International football is hardly ever stated.
Italy benefited from this on saturday of that there is no doubt

Gigliati wrote:While most of us Italians applauded the Scottish for their brave and spirited fight on saturday, till all this moaning and the "we wuz robbed" headlines have left a verybad taste. I have lost all respect for McLeish since, he needs to learn what a dignified response is all about.

If anything, the refreeing decisions went in favour of the Scots. Di Natale had scored. The scottish goal was definately offisde. And yet you guys cry over a wrong free kick decision? That only resulted in a goal due to some poor defending by the scottish. But the Italian goal was "robbed" by the refree, who also scored for the Scots! If anything, the "right" scoreline should have been a more comfortable 2-0 for Italy. The scots were playing at home, with a great crowd behind you, in rainy conditions which suited you a lot, and were beaten DESPITE dodgy refreeing decisions in your favour. Not because of them. Italy were just more clinical on that day.

So please don't spoil what was a great spirited qualifying campaign with all these ridiculous conspiracy theories.

The Bulk wrote:Haha! This stopped me crying into my corn flakes this morning!

Ps The referee for the Scotland-Italy game on Saturday, Manuel Gonzalez, was treated to a lavish meal at Gattuso's father-in-law's restaurant after the game on Saturday night! Is that an innocuous action or is it fair to construe it as a potential conflict of interest? Probably for the former and probably not (verging on paranoia) for the latter of the two.

Not sure if the Italian squad joined him and the rest of the officiating team?

Apparently it was, as I thought, the linesman that awarded the FK to Italy anyway, not Manuel Gonzalez.

pps He is in competition with another Spanish ref for representing Spain at next year's Euro 2008. Is his place in jeopardy now?

Gigliatai,

Have you had the opportunity to read Chick Young's (Scottish columnist on the Beeb) response to the game? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/7101842.stm

Extract:

Italy have good footballers, but they are not a great football team. They don't play with the flair of real world champions of the past, of Brazil and Argentina of the seventies, of France of '98.

Perhaps there is too much rotten about their domestic game.

A kiss blown in Luca Toni's direction would lay him horizontal if he thought his team would gain advantage from it. Shame really, because he can play all right.

For all that, they are time-served assassins in killing off the dreams of the little guys.

Scotland lost a goal in jig time. It was as if the Italians, school-playground style, had started the game before we were ready.

We were victims of the multi-ball system. Italy won a throw-in and our back line and midfield reacted as if there was one ball which had been booted into the stand.

It was almost all over before it started.

But there was much of which to be proud about the Scottish team - passion and heart, blood and sweat and actually much much more than that.

When we moved the ball with one touch and movement, on a surface which was treacherously wet, we outplayed the champions of the world.

This is a team going places and and the final destination will be South Africa in the summer of 2010.

Of course there was an injustice at the end.

How the Spanish referee and his assistant could come to the conclusion that the challenge on Alan Hutton was a free kick to Italy which in turn led to the bullet to our Euro 2008 heart will remain a mystery for all time.

At times like that you do wonder about conspiracy theories. But then who was conspiring against whom when the Italians were denied what should have been a legitimate goal?

The most amusing this is, after this long rant, he then goes onto add, in a small afterthought:

But then who was conspiring against whom when the Italians were denied what should have been a legitimate goal?

And now we have the witchhunt against the Spanish officials by a tabloid press who lost the plot in the build-up with over-hype and not a thought that this could go horribly wrong. It was all too too 1978-esque.

Live with it. It's over and I suspect that before the World Cup campaign begins we may lose our manager too.

It made me laugh big time.

I feel for Scotland, however I also DESPISE the hypocrisy of its journos and supporters, who are always claiming that the English are always guilty of making excuses and blaming others for their failure.

And they are often correct. But this defeat also shows the Scots are in no position to take the high ground. Blaming the ref when they should have been 2-0 down, not 1-0 down, is just ludicrous

Scotland have covered themselves in total shame.

The truth is that they should have lost that game 2-0, and taking that decision in isolation is nothing but myopia. By that argument, had Gonzalez waved away 9 legitimate Italian goals, it would not have mattered to the Scots because the game turned on that free-kick (which by the way the Scots forgot to defend, presumably still reeling from the gross injustice meted out to the heroic warriors in the Glasgow rain).

Also, Scotland are forgetting that even a draw would have pretty much knocked them out. Everyone bleats about Italians crying and moaning, but Scotland have provided a masterclass in that. Chick Young's jihad against all things Italian is really heart-warming.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Scotland have covered themselves in total shame.
The truth is that they should have lost that game 2-0, and taking that decision in isolation is nothing but myopia. By that argument, had Gonzalez waved away 9 legitimate Italian goals, it would not have mattered to the Scots because the game turned on that free-kick (which by the way the Scots forgot to defend, presumably still reeling from the gross injustice meted out to the heroic warriors in the Glasgow rain).

Also, Scotland are forgetting that even a draw would have pretty much knocked them out. Everyone bleats about Italians crying and moaning, but Scotland have provided a masterclass in that. Chick Young's jihad against all things Italian is really heart-warming.

Because of one man's article?

Gigliati wrote:While most of us Italians applauded the Scottish for their brave and spirited fight on saturday, till all this moaning and the "we wuz robbed" headlines have left a verybad taste. I have lost all respect for McLeish since, he needs to learn what a dignified response is all about.

If anything, the refreeing decisions went in favour of the Scots. Di Natale had scored. The scottish goal was definately offisde. And yet you guys cry over a wrong free kick decision? That only resulted in a goal due to some poor defending by the scottish. But the Italian goal was "robbed" by the refree, who also scored for the Scots! If anything, the "right" scoreline should have been a more comfortable 2-0 for Italy. The scots were playing at home, with a great crowd behind you, in rainy conditions which suited you a lot, and were beaten DESPITE dodgy refreeing decisions in your favour. Not because of them. Italy were just more clinical on that day.

So please don't spoil what was a great spirited qualifying campaign with all these ridiculous conspiracy theories.

The Bulk wrote:Haha! This stopped me crying into my corn flakes this morning!

Ps The referee for the Scotland-Italy game on Saturday, Manuel Gonzalez, was treated to a lavish meal at Gattuso's father-in-law's restaurant after the game on Saturday night! Is that an innocuous action or is it fair to construe it as a potential conflict of interest? Probably for the former and probably not (verging on paranoia) for the latter of the two.

Not sure if the Italian squad joined him and the rest of the officiating team?

Apparently it was, as I thought, the linesman that awarded the FK to Italy anyway, not Manuel Gonzalez.

pps He is in competition with another Spanish ref for representing Spain at next year's Euro 2008. Is his place in jeopardy now?

Hi,

Firstly, my apologies if I have offended you.

Secondly, on reflection – as I’ve said elsewhere in this thread – I don’t think Scotland were robbed either.

I still think that, on the face of it, it is a legitimate question to ask whether the referee’s attendance at a restaurant owned by the father-in-law of a player who ended up on the winning team – owing to a contentious decision in the last moments of the match – could be construed as conflicting with his interests.

Personally, I don’t think the outcome of the game was contingent upon the referee’s attendance at Bar Milano – but I’ll still ask the question.

Anyway, I’ve since found out that the meal was arranged in advance by the Scottish Football Association.

Perhaps the SFA conspired with the officiating team to prohibit Scotland’s progress?

Perhaps no one did and the events in the match unfolded without sinister outside intervention.

I choose the last option (Thumbs up!)

Ps I remember seeing Chick Young singing Tina Turner’s Simply the Best on the Karaoke at a Chinese restaurant!

Pirlo wrote:Ciao Ciao, BoBo, Forza, Blue



We struggled intensely from set-pieces, our positioning was poor, a good example of this was Fabio caught square on McFadden and being forced to concede the tactical foul through poor positioning. Plus from Ferguson's corner we had problems fighting for the second ball, only a block from Zambro and Pirlo clearing from the goal-line prevented more problems for ourselves. Hutton i felt had a great match, full of directness which sure caused Zambro problems, and he should have scored a mis-placed header.


Great night for celebrations, and i do like our new shirt

Ciao Pirlo!

We did struggle from set-pieces, and that seems to be a huge problem. With Nesta gone, we're missing height in our defence. Chiellini would be great on set-pieces.

I like the shirt too .

Spankeltoe wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Scotland have covered themselves in total shame.
The truth is that they should have lost that game 2-0, and taking that decision in isolation is nothing but myopia. By that argument, had Gonzalez waved away 9 legitimate Italian goals, it would not have mattered to the Scots because the game turned on that free-kick (which by the way the Scots forgot to defend, presumably still reeling from the gross injustice meted out to the heroic warriors in the Glasgow rain).

Also, Scotland are forgetting that even a draw would have pretty much knocked them out. Everyone bleats about Italians crying and moaning, but Scotland have provided a masterclass in that. Chick Young's jihad against all things Italian is really heart-warming.

Because of one man's article?

McFadden, McLeish, my Scottish friends...maybe it's just me, but it seems Bulk has a monopoly on Scottish magnanimousness.

McFadden and McLeish were obviously going to be upset after the final whistle.

It's not like they get to see the endless replays of the incidents whilst being wrapped up in the game.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Scotland have covered themselves in total shame.

The truth is that they should have lost that game 2-0, and taking that decision in isolation is nothing but myopia. By that argument, had Gonzalez waved away 9 legitimate Italian goals, it would not have mattered to the Scots because the game turned on that free-kick (which by the way the Scots forgot to defend, presumably still reeling from the gross injustice meted out to the heroic warriors in the Glasgow rain).

Also, Scotland are forgetting that even a draw would have pretty much knocked them out. Everyone bleats about Italians crying and moaning, but Scotland have provided a masterclass in that. Chick Young's jihad against all things Italian is really heart-warming.

I tend to agree with you. I started the game cheering on the Scots, because everyone likes an underdog, and as our neighbours most English fans want to see Scotland doing well, despite the feeling not reciprocating the other way.

Watching the Italians have a legitimate second ruled offside, then the Scots miss an open goal when it was 1-1, then Italy winning it in the final minute, I was in awe at what a great game it was.

then it soured- there was what looked like an Italian family in the pub I was watching it in. When what looked like the GRANDAD started cheering the winner, an angry Scot sat opposite him stodd up and started hurling abuse at him. I know this isnt indicative of all Scottish fans or anything, but at that point I stopped supporting Scotland and felt for the Italian family.

Then, listening to the whingeing backlash in the media ever since, marshalled by Alex Mcleish and emphasised by Chick Fucking Young (is this man verging on the racist?), I've lost admiration for plucky Scotland for the moment.

I have no doubt were England in Scotland's shoes, the Scottish media and fans alike would be delighting in the loss and the excuses and the moaning, taking the moral highground. This game highlights the fact that we are all just as bad losers as each other

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Spankeltoe wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Scotland have covered themselves in total shame.
The truth is that they should have lost that game 2-0, and taking that decision in isolation is nothing but myopia. By that argument, had Gonzalez waved away 9 legitimate Italian goals, it would not have mattered to the Scots because the game turned on that free-kick (which by the way the Scots forgot to defend, presumably still reeling from the gross injustice meted out to the heroic warriors in the Glasgow rain).

Also, Scotland are forgetting that even a draw would have pretty much knocked them out. Everyone bleats about Italians crying and moaning, but Scotland have provided a masterclass in that. Chick Young's jihad against all things Italian is really heart-warming.

Because of one man's article?

McFadden, McCleish, my Scottish friends...maybe it's just me, but it seems Bulk has a monopoly on Scottish magnanimousness.

Thank you for the kind compliment.

ps I should add that I think I would probably raise the same points irrespective of what teams were playing. Could be Jamaica vs Vanuatu...

Chick Young's an imbecile. Don't take anything he says seriously. And yes, he's racist.

In about two months, Italy will solve all their problems from set pieces...

Welcome to THE MATRIX

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Pirlo wrote:Ciao Ciao, BoBo, Forza, Blue

We struggled intensely from set-pieces, our positioning was poor, a good example of this was Fabio caught square on McFadden and being forced to concede the tactical foul through poor positioning. Plus from Ferguson's corner we had problems fighting for the second ball, only a block from Zambro and Pirlo clearing from the goal-line prevented more problems for ourselves. Hutton i felt had a great match, full of directness which sure caused Zambro problems, and he should have scored a mis-placed header.

Great night for celebrations, and i do like our new shirt

Ciao Pirlo!

We did struggle from set-pieces, and that seems to be a huge problem. With Nesta gone, we're missing height in our defence. Chiellini would be great on set-pieces.

I like the shirt too .

No issues pal. I just found the cartoon as offensive as I found some of the articles written post the game. The few scots I know are a fun crowd so I assume its a minority of nutcases who are writing this $h!t.

The Bulk wrote:

Gigliati wrote:While most of us Italians applauded the Scottish for their brave and spirited fight on saturday, till all this moaning and the "we wuz robbed" headlines have left a verybad taste. I have lost all respect for McLeish since, he needs to learn what a dignified response is all about.

If anything, the refreeing decisions went in favour of the Scots. Di Natale had scored. The scottish goal was definately offisde. And yet you guys cry over a wrong free kick decision? That only resulted in a goal due to some poor defending by the scottish. But the Italian goal was "robbed" by the refree, who also scored for the Scots! If anything, the "right" scoreline should have been a more comfortable 2-0 for Italy. The scots were playing at home, with a great crowd behind you, in rainy conditions which suited you a lot, and were beaten DESPITE dodgy refreeing decisions in your favour. Not because of them. Italy were just more clinical on that day.

So please don't spoil what was a great spirited qualifying campaign with all these ridiculous conspiracy theories.

The Bulk wrote:Haha! This stopped me crying into my corn flakes this morning!

Ps The referee for the Scotland-Italy game on Saturday, Manuel Gonzalez, was treated to a lavish meal at Gattuso's father-in-law's restaurant after the game on Saturday night! Is that an innocuous action or is it fair to construe it as a potential conflict of interest? Probably for the former and probably not (verging on paranoia) for the latter of the two.

Not sure if the Italian squad joined him and the rest of the officiating team?

Apparently it was, as I thought, the linesman that awarded the FK to Italy anyway, not Manuel Gonzalez.

pps He is in competition with another Spanish ref for representing Spain at next year's Euro 2008. Is his place in jeopardy now?

Hi,

Firstly, my apologies if I have offended you.

Secondly, on reflection – as I’ve said elsewhere in this thread – I don’t think Scotland were robbed either.

I still think that, on the face of it, it is a legitimate question to ask whether the referee’s attendance at a restaurant owned by the father-in-law of a player who ended up on the winning team – owing to a contentious decision in the last moments of the match – could be construed as conflicting with his interests.

Personally, I don’t think the outcome of the game was contingent upon the referee’s attendance at Bar Milano – but I’ll still ask the question.

Anyway, I’ve since found out that the meal was arranged in advance by the Scottish Football Association.

Perhaps the SFA conspired with the officiating team to prohibit Scotland’s progress?

Perhaps no one did and the events in the match unfolded without sinister outside intervention.

I choose the last option (Thumbs up!)

Ps I remember seeing Chick Young singing Tina Turner’s Simply the Best on the Karaoke at a Chinese restaurant!

Don't think it's fair to generalise the whole of Scotland based on one guy in the pub or the wanker that is Chick Young.

I'm now over the result but I think it's pretty cheap of Italians slating people for conspiracy theories (which I think is no nonscence anyway) after their outcries of conspiracies after World Cup 2002 and Euro 2004.