How much longer before a Euro Super League?

With the ECL suffering from many of the same probs as the EPL for example where results are all too often v predictable. the gulf between the bigger clubs and the rest is also growing, imo i think that the ECL in its current format cannot continue for too much longer, so the next step will surely be a european super league.

will that allow promotion/relegation? or will the gulf become even bigger than the CCC and EPL gulf, hence making it pointless.

So can you foresee a situation where there is no option but a european super league?

How would these clubs be chosen, simply chosen by the federations, some qualification process or a franchise system like the NFL perhaps even creating new clubs (similar to the regional creations in welsh rugby)?

I doubt it.. .I would think a return to the multiple mini groups instead where the clubs played eachother more times rather than the knock out stages.

That would increase the revenue of the smaller/midsized clubs since they would be guaranteed 6 home games rather than the more realistic 4 at the moment.

With the G14 now defunct I don't think we'll see a move to this for a while. I thought it might happen 5-6 years ago but everyone seems happy enough with the current CL format (well, maybe not Platini) so I think it will continue as it is.

UEFA and FIFA are in breach of EU laws and regulations regarding the free movement of trade (or something like that) within the EU according to some lawyers who were commenting on this very topic on Radio 4, I think.

They used examples of other brands, goods, whatever, that trade within different EU markets.

FIFA and UEFA, of course, believe football is different and somehow exonerated from EU directives.

But the legal wonks pointed out that the Bosman ruling showed that football isn't above the law and that it is inevitable that some legal representatives of clubs interested in forming a new league outwith the jurisdiction of a national football association will bring their case for forming leagues without intervention from FIFA and UEFA, or any of their members, to the EU lawmakers and their courts in the near future.

They were also confident that the clubs would defeat UEFA and FIFA.

They actually mentioned that lawyers representing clubs were already looking into challenging FIFA and UEFA in the highest courts of the EU.

FIFA & UEFA have a monopoly on football which is almost certainly illegal, so if somebody does take them to court they would almost certainly win & then we could have a complete free for all with all sorts of new competitions being set up. It would also probably be the end of international football.

Jaime wrote:With the G14 now defunct I don't think we'll see a move to this for a while. I thought it might happen 5-6 years ago but everyone seems happy enough with the current CL format (well, maybe not Platini) so I think it will continue as it is.

Oh right, didn't the clubs *sign* no to go solo when they changed the G14 into G50 (or whatever it is now) ?

I remember something like that, I thought it was a real coup by UEFA at the time....

Murray, I agree. The capitalists out there with their weapons and ammo (i.e. lawyers and accountants) will, eventually, convince (i.e. bribe) enough bureaucrats, politicians, and lawmakers into allowing them to takeover and run football leagues.

There's a famous book about the dodgy fookers who run FIFA. I'll post a link in a minute.

Wherever there is money = dodgy and corrupt obese people who wear nice suits and...

The FIFA Bandits who rob the game for power and money.

Do you consider yourself to be the most powerful man in the world?

Most men asked such a question would demur, would dismiss it with a laugh. Dr João Havelenge, President of Fédération Internationale De Football Association (FIFA) did not demur and he certainly did not laugh.

"I've been to Russia twice, invited by President Yeltsin. I've been to Poland with their President. In the 1990 World Cup in Italy I saw Pope John Paul II three times. When I go to Saudi Arabia, King Fahd welcomes me in splendid fashion. In Belgium I had a one-and-a-half hour meeting with King Albert. Do you think a Head of State will spare that much time to just anyone? That's respect. That's the strength of FIFA. I can talk to any President, but they'll be talking to a President too on an equal basis. They've got their power, and I've got mine: the power of football, which is the greatest power there is."

That's the Havelenge version of "yes".

In this remarkable book David Yallop probes to the very heart of the ‘greatest power’.A unique two-day interview with Havelenge and interviews his successor Sepp Blatter, with his defeated rival Lennart Johansson, the legendary Pele and with many others would make this book unique, but his account of the life and times of Havelenge and the corruption that swirled around the man who was the Godfather of football for a quarter of a century is what ensured that How The Stole The Game has become a landmark in the evolution of world football - a religion to millions of fans but a multi-billion dollar business to those at the heart of the administration of the game.

From the book by David Yallop entitled How They Stole The Game

http://www.amazon.co.uk/They-Stole-Game-David-Yallop/dp/0953571009

From Andrew Jennings

Foul!: The Secret World of FIFA: Bribes, Vote Rigging and Ticket Scandals

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Foul-Secret-Bribes-Rigging-Scandals/dp/0007208111

FIFA and bribes, vote rigging, and ticket scandals

Andrew Jennings, the world's foremost investigative sports reporter, spent four years delving into the dark side of 'the beautiful game'.

The result is this explosive and damning expose of the officials that run football's world governing body FIFA - a story of how the 'men in suits' put personal ambition and money before the fans on the terraces. No individual has managed to penetrate the secret world of FIFA. Until now.

Andrew Jennings, the world's leading sports investigative reporter, has unearthed the stories that FIFA doesn't want told.

He blows the whistle on an international cash-for-contracts scandal and reveals how some football officials have been urged to secretly repay the sweeteners they received. He asks why FIFA President delayed acting against troubled marketing company ISL, who wrongly withheld GBP 45 million of FIFA's cash.

He exposes the vote-rigging that went on behind closed doors in the fight for control of FIFA. Jennings has researched in the Americas, Africa, Asia and Europe. He has uncovered damning evidence and persuaded FIFA insiders to talk to him about the questionable business practices they've witnessed. "Foul!'s" mix of world-class probing journalis

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Foul-Secret-Bribes-Rigging-Scandals/dp/0007208111

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:With the ECL suffering from many of the same probs as the EPL for example where results are all too often v predictable. the gulf between the bigger clubs and the rest is also growing

Disagree with that wholeheartedly. I mean, just four years ago the final was Monaco vs Porto and since then Liverpool, a team struggling against the 'big guns' in the league reach the final twice. Ac Millan finished 4th last year and won it. The best teams have always won the champions league, and if anything, recently it's been going in the other direction.

But I think Blatter has mentioned before that UEFA at least (not sure about FIFA) has special dispensation from the EU regarding certain laws, since it's a sport and has some different circumstances to normal everyday situations.

The Quiet Earth wrote:Murray, I agree. The capitalists out there with their weapons and ammo (i.e. lawyers and accountants) will, eventually, convince (i.e. bribe) enough bureaucrats, politicians, and lawmakers into allowing them to takeover and run football leagues.

There's a famous book about the dodgy fookers who run FIFA. I'll post a link in a minute.

Wherever there is money = dodgy and corrupt obese people who wear nice suits and...

They dont need to bribe or influence because legally under EU law and legislation ,they would win.

DS wrote:legally under EU law and legislation

But what about in legal terms?

While a single governing body in each country, and one in Europe, may be illegal, to see the structure fall apart would imo be disastrous. You'd end up with a ridiculous situation similar to boxing, with multiple concurrently running competitions, and endless arguments about who was best.

Roger Hunt wrote: While a single governing body in each country, and one in Europe, may be illegal, to see the structure fall apart would imo be disastrous. You'd end up with a ridiculous situation similar to boxing, with multiple concurrently running competitions, and endless arguments about who was best.

that is a major worry for me i can envisage this in the much longer term but agree it would be an absolute nightmare

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

Roger Hunt wrote: While a single governing body in each country, and one in Europe, may be illegal, to see the structure fall apart would imo be disastrous. You'd end up with a ridiculous situation similar to boxing, with multiple concurrently running competitions, and endless arguments about who was best.

that is a major worry for me i can envisage this in the much longer term but agree it would be an absolute nightmare

With 15 different trophies Athletico might stand a chance of winning something Frank.

wonders can happen in the current format, look at the FA Cup Final.

At least then the board would be more active.

It's gonna happen in the end, it wil also be then of football as we know it. But eh who cares, its gonna be a big hit in Singapore

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

Roger Hunt wrote: While a single governing body in each country, and one in Europe, may be illegal, to see the structure fall apart would imo be disastrous. You'd end up with a ridiculous situation similar to boxing, with multiple concurrently running competitions, and endless arguments about who was best.

that is a major worry for me i can envisage this in the much longer term but agree it would be an absolute nightmare

The differences would get hard to engulf at some point or another but at this moment they realize it is probably quite profitable being as part of the same group when this comes to end , divisions will start.

DS wrote:

The Quiet Earth wrote:Murray, I agree. The capitalists out there with their weapons and ammo (i.e. lawyers and accountants) will, eventually, convince (i.e. bribe) enough bureaucrats, politicians, and lawmakers into allowing them to takeover and run football leagues.

There's a famous book about the dodgy fookers who run FIFA. I'll post a link in a minute.

Wherever there is money = dodgy and corrupt obese people who wear nice suits and...

They dont need to bribe or influence because legally under EU law and legislation ,they would win.

Do you mean that the capitalists would win, or do you mean FIFA would? If you mean the capitalists don't need to bribe anyone then I'd reply with the following:

The reason they’d need to bribe politicians, etc, is due to the entwinement of football and politics.

If you read the extract and blurb, above, from David Yallop’s book on the power that the suits at FIFA hold you’re left with the notion that FIFAs power is sanctioned by the same politicians they cosy up to.

I think that, basically, FIFA ally themselves with strong political figures in order to shield themselves from capitalists who want to exploit the football market even further. Still, I’m sure that the same capitalists (The Murdoch clan, to name one of them) try to influence the same politicians towards their conception of how football should be run.

But they’ve been unsuccessful so far, I believe, because, as that excerpt informs us, FIFA cosy up to powerful politicians from different continents and regions, and, with FIFA possessing the power associated with football and also the access to its stars and the best match day corporate hospitality, it is in the politicians’ interests – for the moment – to allow the status quo to continue.

Eventually, however, the politicians may be influenced enough by the rich capitalists (i.e. bribes using money, land, oil, shares, food, girls, whichever) to sever their connections with FIFA and lend their considerable backing to a new, breakaway initiative called The Sky League of Champions, or something like that.

Football is also a good tool for averting the gaze of the majority (proles) away from all the dodgy nonsense that is inherent to the institutions that facilitate the governance of the same majority by the few.

kas wrote:But I think Blatter has mentioned before that UEFA at least (not sure about FIFA) has special dispensation from the EU regarding certain laws, since it's a sport and has some different circumstances to normal everyday situations.

UEFA think they have immunity from EU directives and laws because, during some important footballing fixture, they've probably whispered in the ear of the politician or EU lawmaker the following:

Blatter: [Thought bubble] Should I ask him now? No! Silly boy! Ask him when his team scores, because then he's more likely to say 'Yes! Anything for you my dear Sepp.' [/Thought bubble]

The politician's team scores an important goal. He's ecstatic and deliriously happy at this point. Blatter begins to make his move.

Blatter: Cooee! Say, do you think we should be ok from all of this talk about Sky starting a new European super league and the football clubs involved severing their legal connection with their FAs?

Bloated and ecstatic politician: [Stuffs his twenty-seventh canapes into his already full mouth] Anything for you my little Sepp.

Blatter: Phew!

2 Weeks Later...

Reporter: So, Mr Blatter, do you believe that FIFAs sovereignty is under threat from EU bureaucrats and their directives?

Blatter: [In a smug and arrogant fashion] No. FIFA is a family that unites the whole world, and we aim to keep that family together. We have nothing to fear from those princely bureaucrats in their ivory towers.

Cheers

ITs already happened. Its called the EPL

Tweedle wrote:ITs already happened. Its called the EPL

We could end up with different kinds of football with all sorts of strange rules, like bigger goals, the game split into 4 quarters or 3 thirds or even 9 or 10 a side.

Berlusconi wants 'super' League
Wednesday 23 April, 2008

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi would like Serie A to become a League for big clubs only.

The 71-year-old, who today stepped down as Milan President, believes a smaller championship would make Italian teams more competitive in Europe.

“The great sides should make their own championship. When you invest a lot in a team it's unthinkable to make them play against a team from the provinces whose stadium, usually with a capacity for 20,000 people, is inevitably half-empty.”

Speaking to Radio Radio, Il Cavaliere explained that teams with fewer spectators should have their own Division, separate from those with large grounds and huge fan bases.

Attendances at Italian football matches have been dropping, despite a recent resurgence, over the last 10 years. Violence, irregular kick-off times and ticket prices have all contributed to the decline.

“When there are great teams playing the stadiums are always full and TV audiences are massive. Only with great teams can we become protagonists in Europe again.”

Aside from owning the Rossoneri, Berlusconi presides over Mediaset, a private television company which has the rights to show Milan, Juventus, Roma and Inter.

---

Terrible idea.

I know why I always loathed that wannabe Mussolini...

Berlusconi is going to step down as Milan president, so he won't be in football anymore.

Turning a Cup Competition in a League will not make the results less predictable me thinks.

kas wrote:Berlusconi is going to step down as Milan president, so he won't be in football anymore.

Yeah, once he steps down, that's it. The most corrupt man in Italy can surely find a way around that.

kas wrote:Berlusconi is going to step down as Milan president, so he won't be in football anymore.

He has stepped down before as well (when he held office), but as long as he owns the club, not much changes.... he still takes the important calls.