Premier League 16/17/18 January 2016

I think we should follow a Spurs blueprint when they do something of note. No trophies and two top 4 finishes in how many years? Take Kane away and they're probably 6th. I'd rather follow the blueprint of Arsenal - attractive football and young, exciting players but backing it up slowly with world class talent now (Sanchez, Ozil, Cech).

Luis wrote:I think we should follow a Spurs blueprint when they do something of note. No trophies and two top 4 finishes in how many years? Take Kane away and they're probably 6th. I'd rather follow the blueprint of Arsenal - attractive football and young, exciting players but backing it up slowly with world class talent now (Sanchez, Ozil, Cech).

Sure, but Arsenal has the same manager for many years, when you (and Tottenham) are changing yours every year or two. Arsenal has also a new stadium, decent Academy/U18/U21 teams and good enough scouting to have a talent here and there among dozens of young players they steal from all over the world every year.

I undeerstand your pain when've been told "follow Tottenham blueprint", as you think Liverpool is much bigger/better club, but that's where realistically you should start.

Last summer Liverpool had a chance to show that you learned a valuable lesson following Suarez sale. But your club choosed to make the same mistake for 2nd time and spent big money on not so fantastic players after Sterling sale. So before following Arsenal doing it a Tottenham way (based on last 12 months at WHL) would be a good starting point. Especially now when you have a World Class manager, so he will have more chances to finish his work despite making mistakes down the road (like all managers do).

And your repetitive "take away" specific players (Kane, De Gea) and their teams will suck is kind of boring.

Luis really doesn't get it does he? Lol.

Firstly, you don't just buy a Bale or Suarez - they are rarities, and with both of those examples neither came as world class players, they both still required developing and thus relied on clever scouting and investment in patience, as opposed to just chucking money around for a quick solution in the way Luis is claiming would definitely get them top 4. Secondly, both Spurs and Liverpool became too reliant on each of those players and failed to develop a proper team that could succeed when they were inevitably sold to bigger clubs, another reason to avoid relying on that kind of approach.

Finally, Kane's goals this season have actually contributed just 1 point (vs Arsenal). Kane injury would be a blow, but it's clear we aren't a one man team anymore. Pochettino is obviously trying to build something with a bit more substance than expecting to rely on one star player who will magically drag the team into top 4 and then leave as soon as someone offers them more money. Stinger is right - you have to walk before you can run. You'd think Liverpool fans would remember how they tried to sign Sanchez - they aren't going to be able to copy Arsenal's model until they become a more attractive prospect, so yeah taking a leaf out of little old Spurs' book for now might not be a bad idea. who knows, they might end up with a really competitive squad with what they already have without pissing a whole bunch more money away and just a few tweaks.

Luis wrote:I think we should follow a Spurs blueprint when they do something of note. No trophies and two top 4 finishes in how many years? .

Spurs are indeed feckin losers!

Liverpool have a better squad as well!

Fey wrote:

Luis wrote:I think we should follow a Spurs blueprint when they do something of note. No trophies and two top 4 finishes in how many years? .

Spurs are indeed feckin losers!

Liverpool have a better squad as well!

In the last 5 years we have finished top 4 twice (possibly 3 times if we do it this year), as the only club making a profit in transfers during that time and with the 6th highest wage bill. Chuck in Cup 2 semi finals (League Cup and FA Cup), 1 final (League Cup) and qualification for Europe every year, I'd say we've been batting above our expected average even if we haven't won silverware in that time.

Liverpool in that same period of time are absolutely underachieving - they have top 4 revenues, top 4 spend, top 4 wage bill, and yet have qualified for the top 4 once in 6 years. and won a League Cup against Cardiff. They could do worse than learn from Spurs how to start hitting par, let alone over achieve.

You're right - I'd definitely rather not win a cup then win one in those years. Explain to me how we have a top 4 spend? Before you get all excited and name Benteke, Lallana etc just remember:

Torres - 50 mil
Suarez - 50 mil
Sterling - 50 mil
Agger - 6 mil

When we can go and spend 50 million on a De Bruyne or Sterling without selling first then maybe you can say we have top 4 expenditure.

Also imagine Kane and Delli Alli are injured and literally all your centre backs are injured at once. Add to that a new manager coming in to find Mignolet and Bogdan as his keeper choices.

Yeah they are excuses - but Spurs have been fucking lucky with injuries let's be honest. Put Sturridge in our team since Klopp arrived and we'd be top 4 - I have absolutely no doubt about that.

My case still stands that if we sign one world class forward we'd finish top 4. Suarez, Bale and to some extent Sanchez have proved this is the case. Why do you think Chelsea have just gone and got Pato?

Pato ain't quite at the world class level for me. Clearly talented but too many injuries and not really got the goal rate to be considered among the very top forwards. Can't really see him being a hit in Premier League

Luis wrote:You're right - I'd definitely rather not win a cup then win one in those years. Explain to me how we have a top 4 spend? Before you get all excited and name Benteke, Lallana etc just remember:

Torres - 50 mil
Suarez - 50 mil
Sterling - 50 mil
Agger - 6 mil

When we can go and spend 50 million on a De Bruyne or Sterling without selling first then maybe you can say we have top 4 expenditure.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons

Pato could so easily turn out to be another Falcao.

It does amaze me that Luis continues to spout off about lack of spend. Rather than just wasted spend.

Why the f**k are teams after Pato? Why is there talk of Chelsea replacing Remy with him? Is this shit down to dodgy agent deals or are there people in charge of huge budgets at the worlds biggest clubs that genuinely know nothing about the sport? Falcao and Pato were good on FIFA 2011, lets get them and f**k off Remy and Ba, I mean wtf!

Kimbo wrote:Why the f**k are teams after Pato? Why is there talk of Chelsea replacing Remy with him? Is this shit down to dodgy agent deals or are there people in charge of huge budgets at the worlds biggest clubs that genuinely know nothing about the sport? Falcao and Pato were good on FIFA 2011, lets get them and f**k off Remy and Ba, I mean wtf!

I see what you're saying but as good as Falcao was before his injury I think it was worth the shot to see if he still had something left. Now it is clear he didn't. Pato was a huge talent and shined initially and didn't mature and burned out instead. Haven't followed but I hear he has been rejuvenated a bit in Brazil and for 7M it might be worth it. He does have the sort of qualities that fit in England.
I can see why Demba ba might not be attractive because he is too slow but Remy I can't grasp.

They could just give one of their rated academy players a promotion instead. Imagine that.

Btw while I was writing that it occurred to me that I was right about Pedro. It's nice to point these things out.

Kimbo wrote:They could just give one of their rated academy players a promotion instead. Imagine that.

Btw while I was writing that it occurred to me that I was right about Pedro. It's nice to point these things out.

True, but no one could predict that Chelsea will implode like this. Things could look differently for Pedro if Chelsea would play like last season.

stinger wrote:

Kimbo wrote:They could just give one of their rated academy players a promotion instead. Imagine that.

Btw while I was writing that it occurred to me that I was right about Pedro. It's nice to point these things out.

True, but no one could predict that Chelsea will implode like this. Things could look differently for Pedro if Chelsea would play like last season.

True and Pedro was always going to be a toss up because nobody knew if he had what it took outside Barcelona to be the main man. I generally doubted that but don't think he has been given a fair shake this season and if he is playing second fiddle to another star(like Hazard) he could deliver. Could easily see him thriving in last year's Chelsea with Matic and Cesc delivering through balls for him.

Luis wrote:Also imagine Kane and Delli Alli are injured and literally all your centre backs are injured at once. Add to that a new manager coming in to find Mignolet and Bogdan as his keeper choices.

Yeah they are excuses - but Spurs have been fucking lucky with injuries let's be honest. Put Sturridge in our team since Klopp arrived and we'd be top 4 - I have absolutely no doubt about that.

My case still stands that if we sign one world class forward we'd finish top 4. Suarez, Bale and to some extent Sanchez have proved this is the case. Why do you think Chelsea have just gone and got Pato?

Arsenal have had Sanchez injured for virtually this entire season and are top/joint top. They've been criticized every transfer window for years for not spending enough. Sounds familiar .... Difference is they've been wise for the most part in their spending for the sake of the balance of the squad.

The point is if you're convinced Liverpool's troubles would be solved by magically signing another forward player like Suarez when they've signed 6 forwards already including a 32million pound player (Benteke) who hasn't been injured and yet you're deeming the owners haven't shown ambition and that more money in the same hands of those who bought all said players but cannot seem to find a way to negate the injury to Sturridge , then good luck with that. Seems misplaced and fanciful at best.

In my opinion, first thing Liverpool should be doing before spending another penny is making the scouting / transfer team of the last 2 years accountable for their misspending. Ideally sack the lot of them and restructure. They missed out on signing Dele Alli for 4million and signed Markovic for 20plus. That alone is not a good sign. Then allow Klopp remainder of this season to weed through his current squad and keep those who fit his system and get rid of those who dont. A good transfer window for Liverpool this summer would be one where they sign no more than 2-3 players and move on 7-10 or more. Squad is clearly bloated. If Klopp gets Liverpool to overachieve even slightly, they would be top 4 regulars and winning trophies every couple of seasons.