Weakest Champions League in years?

I found this article on the guardian website and I totally agree, although Barcelona were the first really good team to win it since Real in 2002. Since then Porto and Liverpool won it, so maybe its only rarely ever good.

There for the taking

This season's Champions League is weaker than it has ever been. Can an English side take advantage?

Sean Ingle

November 21, 2006 10:23 PM

Zip back to a chilly mid-April night in 2000. Manchester United are champions of Europe, runaway Premiership leaders and overwhelming favourites to win the Champions League again. Then Real Madrid come to Old Trafford, withstand a first-half barrage and, inspired by Redondo's classy flicks and Henning Berg-confusing tricks, proceed to rip them apart.

The fallout from that defeat has long lingered, like radiation in the soil. Ever since, Sir Alex Ferguson has rarely risked the high-energy blueprint of 1999, especially away from home. Solidity has been the watchword. And what's it brought United? A single two-legged knockout victory in Europe in six years. Six years? Last night, however, Ferguson reverted back to a basic formula every Sunday League manager would identify with: pick your best team and tell them to outplay the opposition.

It worked, despite Celtic's stirring, if unlikely, dogs of war victory. And, providing Ferguson resists the urge to flip-flop again by bringing back John O'Shea or Darren Fletcher, it could yet take United very close to winning the Champions League. Partly because in Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo and Louis Saha they have the most exciting front three in Europe - but, more important still, because this is possibly the weakest Champions League competition ever.

That last sentence sounds counter-intuitive: after all, when the draw for the knockout stages is made in two weeks time, most of European football's biggest names will be there. But don't be fooled. Right now, very few of them - Lyon and, er? - are anywhere near the top of their game.

Let's take each major league in turn (because, Ajax and Porto apart, the big teams from the big leagues have usually won the European Cup ever since it swelled into a Champions League behemoth).

First, Italy. No Juventus. The worst AC Milan side for at least two decades. Inter, scudetto leaders true, but an ageing team who always seem to find a way to choke and fail. And while Roma's football is currently as giddy as a holiday romance, it's probably just as fragile.

The Spanish sides don't completely convince either. Barcelona are certainly the best team in Europe, but with Samuel Eto'o and Lionel Messi out until the new year, they may not even qualify. Real Madrid, despite slowly being Capelloised, look as fitful and fragile as ever. And Valencia are in free-fall.

In Germany it's the same story. Bayern Munich, normally solid quarter-final contenders, have made their worst start to a Bundesliga season in 13 years and, despite breezing into the knockout stages, don't look the same team without Michael Ballack and the injured Owen Hargreaves.

That leaves Lyon, who have been spectacular so far, and the four English teams. I'm not one for banging the Premiership drum - that league is hyped enough already - but considering what they're up against, Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal have a better chance than usual to win the Champions League this year (providing the latter two squeak through their final group games, the result of missed chances and managerial blunders in the earlier rounds). To these eyes Liverpool lack the quality or confidence to go all the way, but only a fool would write them off: they are a stronger team now than in 2005.

Perhaps it's too early for such pronouncements. European Cups are won in May, not on muddy November nights, after all. But this one, more than most, is surely there for the taking.

Favorites once the knockout stages start:

Lyon, Barca (if they make it), Chelsea

Everybody else is far behind. (That includes ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool.)

But there may be some surprises come February/March.

As for my team, Bayern were fantastic at the beginning of last season, but then started fading around November. In the 2nd round they got slaughtered in Milan. Maybe this year they'll start playing better a little later. Not completely impossible with all those injured players slowly coming back (Lucio, Deisler, Hargreaves, Ismael, Podolski).

And, always remember it's a cup competition. That's the only reason the best team doesn't always win. One-offs are possible. If it were an actual league, I think the three teams I mentioned earlier would have dominated the league in the last 3-4 years.

Rez wrote:because in Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo and Louis Saha they have the most exciting front three in Europe

Your right about the favourates, But remeber between 1998-2002 there were about 6 teams who were awesome, who all had superstar players, now most of these teams have faded.

I first noticed this playing Pro Evo 6 (yes I know its a computer game) when I went to choose a team and every team I looked through (apart from Barca & Chelsea) didnt impress me. The rest have replaced the superstars with abova average players.

Barcelona have massive injuries and dont seem half as effective without Eto and the Gaucho hasnt reached the heights that were accustomed to. Chelsea apart from the Barcelona games havent been that impressive. Lyon have played well and like Holland they play fantastic football, the 'smart' pundits backs them and they crash out when it matters.

@Axe,

We have seen from your previous post that you base your football opinions on the t shirt a player wears. Is there a more exciting player in football than Ronaldo at the moment, only Ronaldinho on form is more exciting.

Rez wrote:@Axe,

We have seen from your previous post that you base your football opinions on the t shirt a player wears. Is there a more exciting player in football than Ronaldo at the moment, only Ronaldinho on form is more exciting.

You should not judge me on a little well deserved chain-janking

I'm not disagreeing with you on Ronaldo, although I think he still needs more of an endproduct to be a real legend.

I'm disagreeing with the statement that there is no other team with three forwards that are as exciting or more than those three from Man U. It's especially Saha and Rooney who are not really "exciting".

I'd say that :

Ronaldinho, Messi & Eto'o
Drogba, Robben, Sheva/Kalou
Van Persie, Henry, Walcott
Klose, Hunt, Klasnic
Carew, Fred, Benzema
Villa, Morientes, Joaquin

are as exciting as United's front three.

But I'm probably clouded in my judgement...

The best thing about the above article, and the most accurate thing, is what he says in the end... its november!!

The best teams will peak in feb to apr period.... Lyon are doing exactly what they did the last few seasons, and will be asked the same questions... can they sustain this kind of form till the end of the season?? Will they be able to cope when the other big teams up the gear a notch or two???

I think teams like Milan, Bayern, Inter, and Real, who look in poor form and have people writing them off, can become completely different propositions in that critical period.... IMO, all four of them have a higher chance of winning the CL than Lyon. If they make it to the next round, that is.

People tend to overhype chelsea around here... inspite of their millions, Inter can probably match their squad man to man. And while I could be biased for thinking so, the above 4 teams can beat Chelsea or Barca in Feb-Apr, at the mo we can only say that those games are going to be 50-50.

And no, I don't think this is the weakest CL in years... it could easily turn out to be one of the strongest CL depending on which teams make the quarterfinals... what I am trying to say is that we are judging way too soon.

I wouldn't say its weaker. His arguement seems to be purely based on the fact that English teams seem to have a better chance at it. Has it not occurred to him that this may be bacause English teams have just got better?

People weren't complaining about its weakness when Italian or Spanish teams were finding it easy to get to the final.

It is only November, Inter have lots of good players, but they always seem to shoot themselves in the foot, I dont know why, but they do. Milan seem to lack the edge without Sheva. Bayernarent the force they were at the turn of the century and as for Madrid, they seem to be as falliable as last year.

All the above can only improve, but no one apart from Lyon have really impressed me so far. Hopefuly by the knock out rounds all the big teams will play well, but there doesnt seem to be any genuine all conquering European heavyweights.

@Axe

The only trident that is comparable is barcelona's, who are not all fit, so at the moment Man Us is the most exciting. However when they are fit they are by far and away the best front 3 in the world.

@Tweeds

I think his argument was that in the past there were 4 good english sides; Arsenal, Chelsea, Pool and United. 4 good Italian sides; AC milan, Inter, Juve and Roma/lazio. 4 good spanish sides; Real, Barca, Valencia & Depor. 2 strong dutch teams Ajax & PSV. 2 strong German teams Bayern & Leverkusen. Now there is only Lyon playing really well.

But he is wrong! There has never been four good English sides until the last two/three years.

We look post 1992(?) - up until about 1999 there was usually only one team that had serious aspirations of getting to the final, then there were two, with Arsenal also adding some regularity to their game. Since then Chelsea and Liverpool have steadily improved as well - it is the renaissance of the EPL.

Sure, its meant that the Spanish, Italian and German leagues aren't as strong as they were but back in the 90s we were incredibly weak as a league, countries have their ebbs and flows and the EPL is slowly coming to the fore again.

i agree with him most of the teams have been poor so far and with the exception of barca(i know they are my team) and maybe Chelsea, Inter and RM and don't really see any of them improving that much come Feb and on words.

You think Inter have been good?!

Milan have been the best Italian team, they only lost last night as they had already qualified

If I understand correctly this story has 2 main thrusts:
1) attacking football is more likely to win Man U games in Europe
2) the current CL is weaker than previously because the top teams are playing poorly.

I don't really agree with 1. Everybody has complained (maybe last year is an exception) that the CL has been getting more defensive, and bemoaned the 'boring' victories of Porto and Liverpool.
Which in my mind calls 2) into question. Just because the big names aren't performing well doesn't mean there aren't good teams in the mix.

Finally I'd agree with the point that teams often peak too early.

So all in all I think the article is a load of tosh.

Spot on Roger

No, i think Inter if the avoid the usual choking is 1 of the few teams that could improve some what come feb>. andm milan was drawn in a shit group so what ever they do doesn't really count for anything up to this point

Why does everyone always rate Lyon so highly? They will do the same thing as they do every year.

I'd say Real Madrid could win it, as they look like a team that could put in good individual performances when it matters. A lot of players with points to prove and others great in tournaments, I hope they meet Man U again.

Then theres Barca, Chelsea and no reason to rule out Milan yet.

@Roger

The champions League is about watching the worlds best players battle it out, the idea being the higher the abilty of the players, the better the contest. The competition needs the best players, playing well, for the competition to survive, if the big teams arent playing well, what is the distinction between the champions league over domestic cups.

I guess Tweeds is right about the rise of the english game and seasonal perfomance fluctuations in domestic leagues. However has the EPL really improved that much or has the competition got weaker. Chelsea won the last 2 league titles with record points yet, during the same period 2 english sides got to the final of champions league. This can only mean one thing, the competition is getting weaker.

Inglorious_B wrote:Why does everyone always rate Lyon so highly? They will do the same thing as they do every year.

Thank God someone else sees it.


From the little I've seen of Bayern they seem to be very strong this year, spectacular but efficient. I don't think they've lost a home game in Europe yet either.

Seems odd to use the word "surprise" with relation to Bayern Munich but they could spring one. ... Then again they could just as easily crash out if they face a good team next round.

I don't really get the author's point in this article...I see this year's tournament as more open due to the big sides' poor form, not weaker. Surely having just one overwhelming favourite to win the tournament would actually mean it's weaker, since no one else is expected to compete?

And then while he analyses the "big" continental teams, he completely ignores the problems that Man. utd. and Arsenal have...you could easily spin this from a Spanish perspective and say "well, look at the English teams, they're not doing well, so a Spanish team has a very good chance of winning it", and do the same for Italian teams, or German teams, etc.

Rather confusing article.

Articles like this are constant bollocks from big team fans... It's not our fault that a world class manager can make the likes of Traore and Biscan out perform Nedved and Lampard, is it? That just shows that maybe the "big name" teams are perhaps more than a little overrated.

As for the Porto jibes... well, you only have to look at where their key players from that year have ended up...

Deco has another CL medal and a couple of La Liga's with Barcelona.

Ferreira and Carvalho have been in another Semi-Final and have 2 premiership medals...

Even the likes of McCarthy who stayed in Portugal have another Portugese league title.

S'not like it was a team of amateurs that disappeared off the face of the earth

Obispo wrote:Articles like this are constant bollocks from big team fans... It's not our fault that a world class manager can make the likes of Traore and Biscan out perform Nedved and Lampard, is it? That just shows that maybe the "big name" teams are perhaps more than a little overrated.

As for the Porto jibes... well, you only have to look at where their key players from that year have ended up...

Deco has another CL medal and a couple of La Liga's with Barcelona.

Ferreira and Carvalho have been in another Semi-Final and have 2 premiership medals...

Even the likes of McCarthy who stayed in Portugal have another Portugese league title.

S'not like it was a team of amateurs that disappeared off the face of the earth

I'll let Rai handle the Ajax jibe (shouldn't be too hard, since they were in the final the next year and the players from that team have done fairly well)

Obispo wrote:Articles like this are constant bollocks from big team fans... It's not our fault that a world class manager can make the likes of Traore and Biscan out perform Nedved and Lampard, is it? That just shows that maybe the "big name" teams are perhaps more than a little overrated.

As for the Porto jibes... well, you only have to look at where their key players from that year have ended up...

Deco has another CL medal and a couple of La Liga's with Barcelona.

Ferreira and Carvalho have been in another Semi-Final and have 2 premiership medals...

Even the likes of McCarthy who stayed in Portugal have another Portugese league title.

S'not like it was a team of amateurs that disappeared off the face of the earth

So we can officially conclude that Mourinho's influence on that team is lessened because of the players he had...I like

this years competition is not as strong on names. the last couple of years has been all about not concedeing and you see it in every winner since they changed the cl.
porto were all about good organisation and hitting teams with effect
liverpool the same as with porto
barca changed they style as the comp went on defended more then normal allthough not to the exctint of the other two.

even though it means more matches i would prefer a 2 group stage since that means you have to be a better team to go far.its hard to sit back hit on the counter and hope for luck in 6 games but it is very possible in two games.
the change has meant there is a chance for small teams but it has also meant that all teams change their styles towards more safety when they play CL.

kasnani wrote:

Obispo wrote:Articles like this are constant bollocks from big team fans... It's not our fault that a world class manager can make the likes of Traore and Biscan out perform Nedved and Lampard, is it? That just shows that maybe the "big name" teams are perhaps more than a little overrated.

As for the Porto jibes... well, you only have to look at where their key players from that year have ended up...

Deco has another CL medal and a couple of La Liga's with Barcelona.

Ferreira and Carvalho have been in another Semi-Final and have 2 premiership medals...

Even the likes of McCarthy who stayed in Portugal have another Portugese league title.

S'not like it was a team of amateurs that disappeared off the face of the earth

So we can officially conclude that Mourinho's influence on that team is lessened because of the players he had...I like

Mourinho brought out the best in those players. Be grateful he made Deco the player he is today

There is something about the article that doesn't ring true. Something like this...

Partly because in Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo and Louis Saha they have the most exciting front three in Europe - but, more important still, because this is possibly the weakest Champions League competition ever.


The worst AC Milan side for at least two decades.

Weren't AC a worse team under Terim, Tabarez and Sacchi?

Written by a Man U fan to ensure that any failure is put down to form and luck rather then other factors (such as a lack of quality).

I don't particularly agree with the article, but I've said for some time that the CL has lost more of it's allure over each of the last 10 years. A once magnificent contest has become a bore, full of micky mouse clubs and fake big teams.

Tweedie, I am an Inter fan, and hence will be biased... so I will keep my arguement restricted to facts only:

- Inter have lost only 2 games this whole season - in one we were down to 10 men away, and in the other we were down to 9 at home. Inter are yet to lose a game 11 vs 11.
- Inter have WON their last 8 games in a row.
- Inter haven't lost in the last 26 games in Serie A
- Inter lead the Serie A and are the ONLY unbeaten side
- The "chokers" from Inter won all 3 of their games in the CL when dropping even a single game could have compromised qualification
- Inter have beaten the best sides in Serie A this season including Roma, Milan, and Fiorentina. Inter face Palermo this weekend.

I don't know about you, but the above does suggest to me that Inter are the best side from Serie A, and one of the best in europe.

Now lets keep the facts aside...

Milan, just look at the group they are in... If you saw any of Sporting's games in the CL this season, you will admit that they have done exceptionally well - Inter's group is far tougher than Milan's... that said, we have 9 points to their 10, and we have qualified as well with a game to spare. It takes character to get out of the mess Inter we in after losing the first two games.

This Inter will not be easy to beat, and they have shown great character so far...

I am hoping for a Milan derby in europe this season Its time we return some favours!!!

Tweedledum wrote:You think Inter have been good?!

Milan have been the best Italian team, they only lost last night as they had already qualified

Article was total rubbish, apart from what others have mentioned that it is too early to tell in Nov (so why bother writing it).

No team has won all their games, whereas in the past the tables used to read:

1. Team name Played 6 Won 6
2.
3
4. Team name Played 6 Lost 6

The CL is far more competitive than in the past and there are much less guaranteed points. I would say it is the strongest CL in years.