winner mentality?

Talking about games and players here. Germany sitting on top of the group back in 2001. Were put up against a team that had to win. The rivalry no matter how it was played down ment everything to both teams...Germany played scared because the players believed so much they could beat England at there own game open footy...... true story

Germany played Cr@p because they had a Cr@p team (what reason did that team have to be 'confident' after the disastrous EC in 2000?). Still, we qualified for the WC in the end, and that's the whole point I explained earlier.

If you need to add some "they tried to make us fear" folklore to make you feel better about it, so be it. You should rather ask yourself why Portugal knocked you out twice in the last few years. Did they cause "fear"? Did they bully also, and "took advantage of their pedigree"?

Cheap excuses, nothing else.

have to agree that past pedigree can work against you more then it helps. Real had mounted many problems on them because they couldnt live up their reputation.

Nope. you were beaten by a side that played well because they had too. The gloves were off and Germany crumbled... Why is this so hard to see.....The Big boys choked....I see you do not like the term "Bully"...

The side that went out in EC 2000 without winning a single match, that got spanked by Portugal's B-team. "Big boys"? Yeah, right.

Brian, it's time to smell the coffee. You beat a Cr@p team that still went further in the tournament a year later than you guys.

blut - you were knocked out of that tournament by the same team as England - we just had the misfortune to play them in the QF, you had a soft draw to the finals. We'd already beaten Argentina to get to Brazil.

England did not deserve to win the tournament, Brazil were the best team there - but only reaching the QF was a result of a tough draw, not Germany being any better than England.

Roger Hunt wrote:blut - you were knocked out of that tournament by the same team as England - we just had the misfortune to play them in the QF, you had a soft draw to the finals. We'd already beaten Argentina to get to Brazil.

England did not deserve to win the tournament, Brazil were the best team there - but only reaching the QF was a result of a tough draw, not Germany being any better than England.

England finished 2nd in their group while Germany topped their group, hence Germany earned the easier draw.

England may have had the harder group but Nigeria were there for the taking and they really shouldve beaten them.

First of all, you can only beat the teams you actually play against, so it's not Germany's fault that they had an easier draw in comparison. Second, I remember that after the Italy and Spain incident, and the fanatic support that pushed the home team forward, quite a few 'pundits' expected us to lose against South Korea in the semis, and fans of other countries were actually glad that they had avoided them.

Third, I never claimed that the German team was "better", on the contrary, I clearly and repeatedly said that it was a Cr@p team. However, even this Cr@p team performed when it really counted, after getting spanked by England earlier in the qualification, after having a disastrous tournament in 2000. And that actually speaks for us, and not against us.

blutgraetsche wrote:First of all, you can only beat the teams you actually play against, so it's not Germany's fault that they had an easier draw in comparison.

I quite agree. But you suggested that Germany's reaching the final was 'performing when it really counted', while England choked. My point is that if you'd played Brazil in the QFs and we'd played them in the final the result might well have been the other way around. And yes, you won your group, but ours was a lot tougher.

German performance in WC 2002 was more about luck of the draw than 'winning mentality'.

Easy to say a Cr@p team.......The only good German team was the early seventies side as far as I'm concerned. The rest have lived off that past team reputation....Everything since that date was boring 10 men behind the ball defensive football.
2006 was an about turn for germany and I like that style of play. But the past 20 years your national never had the skill or ability to play any other football other than defensively......This is not an England fan being sore rather someone seeing a team play for what they have, and Germany continually over achieved lacking individual ability they made up for it playing very strong defensive tactics using a hard workmanlike game plan to pull it off.

So you see it is easy for German teams, Manager, and players of the past to believe they can win. After all past history shows they have done this WC 90 and WC final 2002. Crappy teams yes but hey so what!!!!.. We can do it....................Until that game against Engerland...So this Crappy word comes off the tongue to easily there is no excuse..... yes you lost but you were also beaten because a real team went toe to toe with you and they knocked Germany for six........The mighty was beaten

1990 and 1996 were not crappy German teams. Not up to the standards of the 1970-74 side but deserved winners nonetheless.

Oh dear Brian, can you be more biased than that? The only good German team was in the 1970s? What about the 1980 EC winning team? What about the 1990 WC winning team? 10 men behind the ball? Dear God.

You wish that England produced a team like that "crappy" 1990 WC winning side in the last 40 years. Enough time wasted really, no point in arguing anymore.

Roger.... thats your opinion they were not great teams or teams you look back and say this is how football should be played. This is how I rate football. Any top team in the world can play defensive football they put there minds to it Germany made it there easy way out years ago..IMO

If you took all the WC finals...into consideration...then yes Germany of 90 and 2002.....were crappy teams..........True Story....

I watched these world cups.....Argies and Germany final killed me from watching soccer. Both only had one idea DEFEND

Well saying that some countries have a winning mentality and others dont is a bit racist imo. I think it has more to do with the individual then the country they are born in.

Allthough Germany is an exception to this rule, they just seem to be born with that "Kampfen und Siegen" mentality. I guess this is what you get when you fight against the entire world, and even when all the armies are at your gates...never surrender.

Your memory sucks then, because it was the Argentinians who were playing very defensively in a generally more defensive tournament. Germany actually was one of the few exceptions. The best example for this is the 4-1 thrashing of a very good Yugoslavia side in the group stages.

You basically have no clue about German football Brian, and you are extremely biased. I'll take your future comments on this subject as seriously as otto's on English football. Have a nice day.

Fey wrote:Well saying that some countries have a winning mentality and others dont is a bit racist imo. I think it has more to do with the individual then the country they are born in.

Allthough Germany is an exception to this rule, they just seem to be born with that "Kampfen und Siegen" mentality. I guess this is what you get when you fight against the entire world, and even when all the armies are at your gates...never surrender.

Obviously it is a generalisation to say that everyone from a nation has a winning mentality or everyone from another country is a bottler but I think some countries are more conducive towards a winning mentality. Maybe there are cultural factors at play that shape people and their approach to competition and their ability to handle pressure. The Australians are probably the most prominant example of this as can be seen in a number of sports.

blutgraetsche wrote:Oh dear Brian, can you be more biased than that? The only good German team was in the 1970s? What about the 1980 EC winning team? What about the 1990 WC winning team? 10 men behind the ball? Dear God.

You wish that England produced a team like that "crappy" 1990 WC winning side in the last 40 years. Enough time wasted really, no point in arguing anymore.

England do not come into the arguement they Suck more than a hooker on double paided overtime....

Germany were still good in the seventies as there players aged they became less of a force in world football from my point of view thats all........ Growing up in England many people were brainwashed and thought Germany were still that great.... ......Remember....myself being a Derby county fan (Cloughie fan) new better ...


Blut I'm not biased against Germany...... biased against total defensive football.....Italy also did this for a while and its a major part of there game......

blutgraetsche wrote:Your memory sucks then, because it was the Argentinians who were playing very defensively in a generally more defensive tournament. Germany actually was one of the few exceptions. The best example for this is the 4-1 thrashing of a very good Yugoslavia side in the group stages.

You basically have no clue about German football Brian, and you are extremely biased. I'll take your future comments on this subject as seriously as otto's on English football. Have a nice day.

ouuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!! please do not take life that serious....

I new what happened in the final..Argentina were doing a Germany...It was a boring final......

blutgraetsche wrote:Oh dear. Now you actually sound like those deluded England fans who are still going on about a win against us, because there basically is nothing else to celebrate. Exactly the people you love to criticise and ridicule on a regular basis. Oh the irony and hyprocrisy.

Thank God that other teams don't try to "cause fear in their opponents" then Puro. It's only the 'bullying' Germans and Argies who use the psychological aspect. Yeah right.

You may need to tell yourself that because Argentina spanked Peru once again in the Copa this year, but it won't help you at all I'm afraid. This is actually the loser mentality the Germans have not, as one of the few countries in the world. We don't look for excuses, and we always respect our opponents, no matter how 'small' they may be.

"...England deluded fans..."? Not about that game blut. I watched that game to dissect German psychology once and for all. For many years I watched how Germans are just bullies, but bullies are just that. As soon as they get punched, they get KO. I watched with special interest that Germany-England match where they gave you a good old can of whoop ass. I SAW the expression of FEAR in them German faces. They were found out, BUT I always knew they were bullies. A bully put 10+ goals on the San Marinos.

I only ridicule the English media (and some of them media guys were actually Scottish like dumbass Gray!), and the overrated players that these dumbasses hype like Lampard and Ashley Cole. I ain't got nothing against the English fans. I ain't got nothing against Pierre, COTR, Kimbo, Tweeds, S4P, Luis, etc etc.

I ain't got nothing against you darn good Germans either. Yes, Argentina spanked us, but it wasn't because we fear them. They were just better, we played without 5 starters (we can't afford that), AND most importantly we suck due to the football directors that we've had for over 20 years. We don't get scared when we get punched. We're Inca Warriors.

Well, Germany won in the past because they were better also, just like England were better when they spanked us 5:1. Simple as that. I know that can't be, because when the Krauts win, it always has to be some psychological mumbo jumbo involved. This ridiculous pseudo-psychological nonsense is what I call loser mentality. These bullshit excuses that are always brought up to explain your own shortcomings.

But who am I to complain really. 3 World Cups, 3 European Championships won just because others supposedly were shitting their pants playing us. May they continue to $h!t until it comes out of their ears.

blutgraetsche wrote:Well, Germany won in the past because they were better also, just like England were better when they spanked us 5:1. Simple as that. I know that can't be, because when the Krauts win, it always has to be some psychological mumbo jumbo involved. This ridiculous pseudo-psychological nonsense is what I call loser mentality. These bullshit excuses that are always brought up to explain your own shortcomings.

But who am I to complain really. 3 World Cups, 3 European Championships won because others supposedly were shitting their pants playing us. May they continue to $h!t until it comes out of their ears.

I'm not trying to defend the English. I'm just trying to be impartial with my observations blut. Perhaps the English have sussed you out like them Italians a long time ago. I think Germany are gonna have a hard time beating England from now on. Your U21 team were more talented than England's U21 team, but they looked you straight in the eye (for a change, with no fear), and it was them U21 Germans who panicked.

Now, I'm waiting to see what Germany are gonna do since them English like them Italians are going into the match "knowing" that you are just there to be had. Just observations blut.

If Germany keep playing attractive footy as in WC 2006 they will always get a positive reaction from me....But to play open footy and be sucessfull Germany will have to be a whole lot better than there past winning sides. Do they have the players to pull this off..right now I think not..

Not only have we got the players, we also got the coach to do it.

BoBo Vieri wrote:

Roger Hunt wrote:blut - you were knocked out of that tournament by the same team as England - we just had the misfortune to play them in the QF, you had a soft draw to the finals. We'd already beaten Argentina to get to Brazil.

England did not deserve to win the tournament, Brazil were the best team there - but only reaching the QF was a result of a tough draw, not Germany being any better than England.

England finished 2nd in their group while Germany topped their group, hence Germany earned the easier draw.

England may have had the harder group but Nigeria were there for the taking and they really shouldve beaten them.

But winning our qualifying group should have given us an easier group surely?

They got goddamn Saudi Arabia..