What's wrong with Sevilla?

And Koné is?

Juego de la Okkas wrote:And Koné is?

better.

Great top 4 record against Prem teams - only at Highbury on a pitch that was smaller than UEFA would like pitches to be.

What's his record away to 'pool, Chelsea and Man U in 8 years of Prem football - is it 1 goal in open play ?

Its easy to look at stats but he's never even performed away from home against these teams regardless of goals - its disgraceful.

You go on about his great record (hat-trick v midtable Roma and a brace against managerless Inter who had just lost 3-0 to Lokomotiv Moscow) but can you explain his poor performnces in KO stages ?

Shevchenko has been playing more a of a creative role for the Ukraine in the last couple of years - you'd know that if you watched football - and still has a very good Intl record.

Agooner wrote:henry's got 1 in 2 versus italy. only played a game vs scotland and could have scored a hattrick against scotland if he played in the return leg considering the number of chances France created

Could have ?

You could say that for anyone and the chances are they wouldn't have created so many chances if that over-elaborate, self-obsessed ponce had been on the pitch.

He didn't score against Italy - he hit a shot at the corner flag that was put in by an Italian defender.

Mind you, I'm not suprised he claimed it when I think back to the one he claimed v South africa in '98.

Kluivert didn't flop at Newcastle.

"Shitvanton"

Yes, very good - tell that to Juve, Milan, Roma, Lyon, Lille, Real Madrid, Espanyol.

His record in Serie A, Ligue 1, La Liga and European club competition speaks for itself.

you can't just not count great goals like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF5wGOi0rps

because the pitch is one metre smaller than other pitches pierre


that is totally preposterous

henry is the one player I have feared the most as a liverpool fan over the years. he destroyed us on numerous occasions

but this thread is not about henry or liverpool so back to sevilla

The complete lack of any challenge helps - is it Carragher who does a little dance before taking himself and his partner out of the game ?




This is much better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va7K6YtzwhY

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Great top 4 record against Prem teams - only at Highbury on a pitch that was smaller than UEFA would like pitches to be.

What's his record away to 'pool, Chelsea and Man U in 8 years of Prem football - is it 1 goal in open play ?

Its easy to look at stats but he's never even performed away from home against these teams regardless of goals - its disgraceful.

Your best friend sheva only managed a goal away to juve in all his time in Itlay.

Henry only scored one at old trafford, but when was the last time he really started a match there? it won't surprise me if he didn't start more than 4 times at old trafford during his time in england.

oh stop making things up pierre. never performed away at stamford bridge? ask Mr Desailly. never performed at anfield? ask steve finnan. I remember henry running the whole liverpool backfour ragged in 2003 i think, check out this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fENEMCP5lfc&mode=related&search=

You know i like the way u sometimes make things up and treats them as facts Pierre eg.'henry never uses the outside of his foot' - check out his goal vs spurs. 'henry is all about pace and power' everyone knows henry places his shot most of the times etc

Pierre Littbarski wrote:You go on about his great record (hat-trick v midtable Roma and a brace against managerless Inter who had just lost 3-0 to Lokomotiv Moscow) but can you explain his poor performnces in KO stages ?

poor record in the ko stages u say? u must rate him very higly then coz his record in ko stages of euro competitions is sligtly better than 1 in 2.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Shevchenko has been playing more a of a creative role for the Ukraine in the last couple of years - you'd know that if you watched football - and still has a very good Intl record.

so 35 goals in 75 starts is very good intl record for a striker, but 41 in 95 is poor for someone who played a lot in midfield and upfront?

also worth noting sheva only started ONCE as a sub for ukraine which is far far less than henry did for France.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:He didn't score against Italy

France: Coupet, Sagnol, Gallas, Thuram, Abidal, Ribery (Saha 88), Vieira, Makelele, Malouda, Govou (Wiltord 75), Henry.
Subs Not Used: Landreau, Boumsong, Clerc, Givet, Diarra.

Booked: Henry.

Goals: Govou 2, Henry 18, Govou 55.

Italy: Buffon, Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Barzagli, Grosso, Semioli (Di Michele 54), Pirlo, Gattuso, Perrotta, Cassano (Inzaghi 73), Gilardino (De Rossi 87).
Subs Not Used: Abbiati, Oddo, Dainelli, Delvecchio.

Booked: Cannavaro, Perrotta, Gilardino, Grosso.

Goals: Gilardino 20.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Kluivert didn't flop at Newcastle.

He did. same at Milan, valencia etc

Pierre Littbarski wrote:"Shitvanton"

Yes, very good - tell that to Juve, Milan, Roma, Lyon, Lille, Real Madrid, Espanyol.
.

Carew has destroyed arsenal, real madrid( and made a fool of the world player of the year) etc but that doesn't make him something special.

Agooner wrote:Your best friend sheva only managed a goal away to juve in all his time in Itlay

As many as Henry at United but Sheva's was a goal that put them well on the way to the title rather than just a mere irrelevance in a 6-1 mauling.

Juve was a hard place to go anyway - you'll know that from Henry's inept perfomances there in teh CL for Arsenal.

I would point out that a Juventus defender stopped Sheva scoring gwith his hand last time he went there and we all know what was going on at that time.

Agooner wrote:Henry only scored one at old trafford, but when was the last time he really started a match there? it won't surprise me if he didn't start more than 4 times at old trafford during his time in england

Really ?

I thought it was just Di Canio that did that

He must have had "injuries" like the one he suddenly developed in the Champions League QF v Chelsea once he knew that he had failed and that they were going out.

Come to think of it - he missed OT last season with an injury didn't he ?

Yes, of course he did - you won !

Agooner wrote:oh stop making things up pierre. never performed away at stamford bridge? ask Mr Desailly. never performed at anfield? ask steve finnan. I remember henry running the whole liverpool backfour ragged in 2003 i think, check out this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fENEMCP5lfc&mode=related&search=

Not really the best clip to show when trying to argue that he's more than a pace merchant is it now ?

Classic Push 'n' Run

Agooner wrote: You know i like the way u sometimes make things up and treats them as facts Pierre eg.'henry never uses the outside of his foot' - check out his goal vs spurs. 'henry is all about pace and power' everyone knows henry places his shot most of the times etc

...and places them very badly too judging by his goals to shot ratio in the Champions League !

I meant he isn't able to manipulate the ball and put swerve on it with the outside of the boot.

Agooner wrote:poor record in the ko stages u say? u must rate him very higly then coz his record in ko stages of euro competitions is sligtly better than 1 in 2

[sigh] you've tried this one before - I was clearly talking about THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE knockout stages - he can't even manage a goal every 2 starts at this level.

Agooner wrote:so 35 goals in 75 starts is very good intl record for a striker, but 41 in 95 is poor for someone who played a lot in midfield and upfront?

...in the same team as Zidane & Djorkaeff.

Agooner wrote:

France: Coupet, Sagnol, Gallas, Thuram, Abidal, Ribery (Saha 88), Vieira, Makelele, Malouda, Govou (Wiltord 75), Henry.
Subs Not Used: Landreau, Boumsong, Clerc, Givet, Diarra.

Booked: Henry.

Goals: Govou 2, Henry 18, Govou 55.

Italy: Buffon, Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Barzagli, Grosso, Semioli (Di Michele 54), Pirlo, Gattuso, Perrotta, Cassano (Inzaghi 73), Gilardino (De Rossi 87).
Subs Not Used: Abbiati, Oddo, Dainelli, Delvecchio.

Booked: Cannavaro, Perrotta, Gilardino, Grosso.

Goals: Gilardino 20.

I was well aware that he was credited with a goal against Italy but he didn't score one.

ESPN still have him credited with a goal away to Georgia when he never even touched the ball !

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Kluivert didn't flop at Newcastle.

Agooner wrote:He did

13 goals in 37 (don't know how many starts) isn't too bad for his 1st season over here especially as he knocked Mourinho's Chelsea out of the F.A. Cup.

As for Valencia he was still able to produce a goal displaying skill that Henry can only dream of:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1cyk8_kluivert-valence-vs-genk-2005_sport


Look when all is said and done the difference is that Kluivert, Sheva and Henry all had career defining moments when they could win the European cup - Kluivert and Shevchenko took their chances and won the biggest trophy in club football - Henry completely fucked it up and hit shots straight at the keeper.

His arse went, that's all.

this video explains everything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvmWUZtUDak

Now that Henry is a Barca player and i dont like Barca at all, couldnt care less how he does but at his peak, he was the best player in the world. No one can deny that.

His record is there for all to see

Messiah wrote:this video explains everything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvmWUZtUDak

Excellent


A very short one but the skill before the assist for PSV's no 20 towards the end is amazing !

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x34cth_fan-van-patrick-kluivert

Cripps wrote:Now that Henry is a Barca player and i dont like Barca at all, couldnt care less how he does but at his peak, he was the best player in the world. No one can deny that.

Oh - ok then.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

L r d wrote:Everyone pierre likes or rates goes to $h!t

Like who ?

L r d wrote:I thought he couldn't go wrong picking a 30 goal a season cl winner. Then he turned out to be the biggest flop in football history, that after missing the crucial pen in the cl final

...after scoring the crucial pen in a CL final, taking an average to poor Dynamo side to within seconds of a CL final, scoring more European goals than any other player, being the 1st foreigner to be top scorer in a Serie A debut season, scoring the goals that brought Milan their 1st title in 5 years, getting them to their 1st CL final in 9, consistently outscoring Ruud, Henry in the big games, being Chelsea's most effective player in KO stages of CL, winning the Ballon D'or and, currently, making a much bigger impact on the big games in ECQ group B than Henry.

Biggest flop in Football History

30 mill, scored as many league goals as o shea last year. This year got one manager sacked because he refused to pick him. Then the next guy who was brought in to help this one particular player, took one game to realise hes $h!t and dropped him also.

Biggest flop ever, you said it pal

L r d wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

L r d wrote:Everyone pierre likes or rates goes to $h!t

Like who ?

L r d wrote:I thought he couldn't go wrong picking a 30 goal a season cl winner. Then he turned out to be the biggest flop in football history, that after missing the crucial pen in the cl final

...after scoring the crucial pen in a CL final, taking an average to poor Dynamo side to within seconds of a CL final, scoring more European goals than any other player, being the 1st foreigner to be top scorer in a Serie A debut season, scoring the goals that brought Milan their 1st title in 5 years, getting them to their 1st CL final in 9, consistently outscoring Ruud, Henry in the big games, being Chelsea's most effective player in KO stages of CL, winning the Ballon D'or and, currently, making a much bigger impact on the big games in ECQ group B than Henry.

Biggest flop in Football History

30 mill, scored as many league goals as o shea last year. This year got one manager sacked because he refused to pick him. Then the next guy who was brought in to help this one particular player, took one game to realise hes $h!t and dropped him also.

Biggest flop ever, you said it pal

He can't help it if his legs have gone and he'd still do ok now if he was in a passing team.

I wouldn't take the piss too much - you never know Man U might draw Chelsea in The Knockout Phases !

it is rumoured they have stopped taking aC0cktail of goodies after Puerta's death. What has always been apparent has been the extreme physical fitness shown by this Sevilla team, with which they frequently overpowered their opponents and there has been some talk of doping.

I will leave it that at for your discussion.

that wouldn't surprise me tbh

what does seem clear is that they aren't as overpowering physically as they have been...

precisely both body strength wise and fitness level wise they seem much worse off, although i do wonder about their pre-season preps which seemed rather short

It's an interesting issue, but for me the explanation is straightforward - Sevilla haven't had a proper pre-season, just like us last year. They had to play 5 competitive matches in August (European Super cup, Spanish Super Cup, CL qualifiers). Tiredness and fatigue is bound to show up, made worse by the poor form.

but kas they didn't play hardly any other pre season matches, we've played earlier matches and more and its not affecting us as much as them