Milan's transfer campaign... whats wrong??

Pirlo/Forza/Kaka/RnB/others,

What do you guys think of Milan's transfer strategy?? Do you agree with Galliani that with Pato eligible, Milan do not need any players this season??

Personally, I think Milan missed a great opportunity to cover some of the apparent gaps in their squad. Perhaps their starting XI is as good any (Tho I still think they are a top quality defender short, and a GK!!), however its their squad which is far from complete. They need quality back-ups for Seedorf, Gattuso, & Jankulovski at the minimum, apart from the above 2 mentioned roles. I was expecting Milan to invest big time in a defender and a midfielder this winter, very surprised that it didn't happen.

You know how injury prone the San Siro pitch is... if some of Milan's key players like Gattuso, Pirlo, Kaka, Nesta or Seedorf get injured, they risk a CL spot next season. Very silly risk IMO.

uh-oh!!

There was another serious injury blow for Milan today as it was confirmed that key midfielder Gattuso will be out of action for around 50 days with a serious muscle strain.

bluenine wrote:Pirlo/Forza/Kaka/RnB/others,

What do you guys think of Milan's transfer strategy?? Do you agree with Galliani that with Pato eligible, Milan do not need any players this season??

Personally, I think Milan missed a great opportunity to cover some of the apparent gaps in their squad. Perhaps their starting XI is as good any (Tho I still think they are a top quality defender short, and a GK!!), however its their squad which is far from complete. They need quality back-ups for Seedorf, Gattuso, & Jankulovski at the minimum, apart from the above 2 mentioned roles. I was expecting Milan to invest big time in a defender and a midfielder this winter, very surprised that it didn't happen.

You know how injury prone the San Siro pitch is... if some of Milan's key players like Gattuso, Pirlo, Kaka, Nesta or Seedorf get injured, they risk a CL spot next season. Very silly risk IMO.

The management has been too frugal. This summer it's almost certain they will pick up Zambrotta. I think in the forward department we need to get rid of Ronaldo this summer, and buy a striker like Amauri or Drogba (strong, can hold the ball up).

Zambrotta will be a great buy because he can play on either side, as you well know. Trap even used him in midfield during World Cup 2002 as did Lippi at Juve.

See Zambrotta really opens up the defensive options due to his versatility. Oddo, Janku, Serginho, and Favalli ( ) could be used in rotation.

We then need a central defender. Well Bonera could then exclusively be used as one (I think he is better there anyway). Kaladze, though prone to the odd gaffe, is still very solid.

The biggest mistake Milan made was not to get a striker like Di Natale. He would have totally given them options and is rarely injured.

Dida remains unreliable. Kalac is doing alright for now. I really hope we get a new goalkeeper. As for Gattuso's injury, no one can predict that--he is rarely injured.

With all that said, Galliani's mantra that "European champions don't need reinforcements" is risible some days, and sensible on others. Berlu and Galliani know that the CL booty dwarfs Serie A's. As such, their philosophy is to get as far as possible in the CL. Our current squad is honed for that type of format. We are a big game team. No one prepares better for the marquee match-ups than Milan.

Finally, we don't spend like, say, Inter does. To be honest, Inter's ROI before 2007 was laughable (you must concur, unless you think the UEFA Cup justified the outlay). Certainly, pouring money in blithely is not the answer, but neither is tightening the purse strings. We were one of the few teams that made a profit last year and our attendance is the strongest in Serie A. I think Milan will make three purchases this summer.

So you are basically agreeing with Galliani? Coz I am sure Galliani is lining up 2-3 big transfers in te summer, with Zambrotta/Drogba/Frey likely to be the players.

But what they are risking, by ignoring their immediate issues, is the chance of CL football next season. At the mo, I expect Milan to make the top 4.... but a few injuries could easily change all that.

And then, players like Drogna will have second thoughts about a summer move...

And btw, in response to your sly shot at Inter, you will be surprised to know that the current Milan squad is MORE expensive than the current Inter squad!! Inter used to be silly in the market, but is history for a while now... In the last 3 years under Mancio, Inter have been very astute in the market. We spent very little to assemble a squad of good quality. Pre-2004, we used to spend much more, and have a poor squad compared to this one.

bluenine wrote:uh-oh!!

There was another serious injury blow for Milan today as it was confirmed that key midfielder Gattuso will be out of action for around 50 days with a serious muscle strain.

bluenine wrote:So you are basically agreeing with Galliani? Coz I am sure Galliani is lining up 2-3 big transfers in te summer, with Zambrotta/Drogba/Frey likely to be the players.

But what they are risking, by ignoring their immediate issues, is the chance of CL football next season. At the mo, I expect Milan to make the top 4.... but a few injuries could easily change all that.

And then, players like Drogna will have second thoughts about a summer move...

And btw, in response to your sly shot at Inter, you will be surprised to know that the current Milan squad is MORE expensive than the current Inter squad!! Inter used to be silly in the market, but is history for a while now... In the last 3 years under Mancio, Inter have been very astute in the market. We spent very little to assemble a squad of good quality. Pre-2004, we used to spend much more, and have a poor squad compared to this one.

So I don't understand...Inter did not spend blithely in the years prior to 2007? You are taking the current squad, and I know the fact that you point out. But between 1998 and 2007, did Inter spend more than Milan or not? I thought they did, but I may be wrong.

Of course, the more apposite point is this: if spending brings success then it is justified. In the last 9 years, Milan have won 2 CLs, 2 Scudetti, a Supercup, a World Club Cup etc.

Inter have won 1 Scudetto (paper wars don't count) and a UEFA Cup.

As for agreeing with Gallaini--like I said, some days I do, others I don't. I think we need to find a happy medium between spending tons (Inter) and spending nothing (Milan). We hate Moggi, but he was a very smart man on the market.

So, in summary, I agree with you that we should have bought a player or two in this window.

Big blow for Milan to lose Gattuso, though it couldve been worse. Still it means Emerson will play v Arsenal and he will probably struggle. Either that or Ancelotti goes with the 4-3-1-2 if Ronaldo is fit.

Milan reshuffle Champions list
Friday 1 February, 2008

Milan have unveiled their new Champions League squad list, including youngsters Alexandre Pato and Alberto Paloschi.

Brazilian Pato was unavailable for the competition until January because he only turned 18 in September, after the deadline to hand in the list.

In order to make way for Pato, fellow Brazilian Serginho has been removed from the line-up and will take no further part in the Champions League this season.

Young midfielder Paloschi has replaced striker Willy Aubameyang in the B list of youth team players after his fine performances and two goals in the Coppa Italia.

The Rossoneri will face Arsenal in the second round later this month.

Milan Champions League squad: Dida, Kalac, Fiori; Cafu, Maldini, Kaladze, Nesta, Simic, Jankulovski, Favalli, Bonera, Darmian, Oddo; Emerson, Gattuso, Seedorf, Gourcuff, Pirlo, Ambrosini, Brocchi, Paloschi; Inzaghi, Gilardino, Kakà, Ronaldo, Pato

---

channel4

Allez les rouges wrote:

bluenine wrote:uh-oh!!

There was another serious injury blow for Milan today as it was confirmed that key midfielder Gattuso will be out of action for around 50 days with a serious muscle strain.

Gattuso out for three weeks
Friday 1 February, 2008

Gennaro Gattuso’s thigh strain will only keep him out for three weeks rather than the feared two months.

It had originally been reported the Milan midfielder would be out of action for at least 50 days after he limped off against Reggina on Wednesday evening.

Today the Rossoneri conducted further tests and announced that Gattuso could return in around three weeks.

He has suffered a strain to the femoral bicep in his right leg.

This means the World Cup winner will miss out on Sunday’s trip to Fiorentina, the first leg of the Champions League clash with Arsenal on February 20 and Italy’s friendly against Portugal.

There is also the real risk Gattuso will not be able to recover in time for the second leg against the Gunners on March 4 at San Siro.

--

channel4

bluenine wrote: I was expecting Milan to invest big time in a defender and a midfielder this winter, very surprised that it didn't happen.

I am not surprised at all to be honest. I would have been shocked if we had actually signed someone in January.

The thing with Galliani is this: I know he annoys A LOT of Milan fans(myself included) with his statements like "we don't need anyone, our squad is fine bla bla bla." But when you think about it, he is not really the one to blame. He sure as hell isn't dumb, he knows everything isn't rosy(far from it). I'm 100% sure he cares, he probably is the biggest Milan fan out there (see the way he reacts in the matches). And I am convinced he knows that we need signings. But what can he do? Milan is a club run by one man, and that is Berlusconi. And it seems like the man doesn't really wanna spend anymore.

It's not as if he lacks the money, he is one of the richest people in the world, worth around like 11 billion. It's just a matter of ambition(or lack of). Berlusconi practically saved Milan two decades ago. He brought the best players in the world and he won everything, many many times. He's been there, done that, again and again. The motivation just isn't the same. So, what can Galliani really do? He can't just come out and say: "Look, I know we need players but the boss doesn't wanna spend. I actually had Luca Toni lined-up but Berlusca pulled the plug". He can't just bite the hand that feeds him.

You got the years mixed up... 1995-2004, I completely agree... Moratti ran the club like a crazy fan with no patience and loads of money. The result was disaster, Cr@p ROI, and 13-14 different coaches in 10 seasons!!

From 2004 to now, Inter is a completely different club.... Mancio brought a lot of sanity to our transfer campaign, we spent less money to end up with a better squad, silverware, awesome ROI, and most improtantly the consistancy and continuity we lacked.

And this is clearly evident from the fact that at the mo, Inter's squad is less expensive than Milan's!! While even you would agree, our squad is more quality.... and we are on track for our 3rd consecutive scudetto. These are two very different and distinct era's, you can compare more objectively if you look at them separetely...

Anyways, this is about Milan. You guys have just left yourself very exposed to injury risk. One or two injuries you will easily manage, but as we know in San Siro teams end up with much larger numbers on the treatment table (we had about 11-12 injuries so fart this season) and if that happens to Milan in the next 6 months, you have only yourselves to blame. And this had happened only 18 months ago, remember?

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:So you are basically agreeing with Galliani? Coz I am sure Galliani is lining up 2-3 big transfers in te summer, with Zambrotta/Drogba/Frey likely to be the players.

But what they are risking, by ignoring their immediate issues, is the chance of CL football next season. At the mo, I expect Milan to make the top 4.... but a few injuries could easily change all that.

And then, players like Drogna will have second thoughts about a summer move...

And btw, in response to your sly shot at Inter, you will be surprised to know that the current Milan squad is MORE expensive than the current Inter squad!! Inter used to be silly in the market, but is history for a while now... In the last 3 years under Mancio, Inter have been very astute in the market. We spent very little to assemble a squad of good quality. Pre-2004, we used to spend much more, and have a poor squad compared to this one.

So I don't understand...Inter did not spend blithely in the years prior to 2007? You are taking the current squad, and I know the fact that you point out. But between 1998 and 2007, did Inter spend more than Milan or not? I thought they did, but I may be wrong.

Of course, the more apposite point is this: if spending brings success then it is justified. In the last 9 years, Milan have won 2 CLs, 2 Scudetti, a Supercup, a World Club Cup etc.

Inter have won 1 Scudetto (paper wars don't count) and a UEFA Cup.

As for agreeing with Gallaini--like I said, some days I do, others I don't. I think we need to find a happy medium between spending tons (Inter) and spending nothing (Milan). We hate Moggi, but he was a very smart man on the market.

So, in summary, I agree with you that we should have bought a player or two in this window.

bluenine wrote:You got the years mixed up... 1995-2004, I completely agree... Moratti ran the club like a crazy fan with no patience and loads of money. The result was disaster, Cr@p ROI, and 13-14 different coaches in 10 seasons!!

From 2004 to now, Inter is a completely different club.... Mancio brought a lot of sanity to our transfer campaign, we spent less money to end up with a better squad, silverware, awesome ROI, and most improtantly the consistancy and continuity we lacked.

And this is clearly evident from the fact that at the mo, Inter's squad is less expensive than Milan's!! While even you would agree, our squad is more quality.... and we are on track for our 3rd consecutive scudetto. These are two very different and distinct era's, you can compare more objectively if you look at them separetely...

Anyways, this is about Milan. You guys have just left yourself very exposed to injury risk. One or two injuries you will easily manage, but as we know in San Siro teams end up with much larger numbers on the treatment table (we had about 11-12 injuries so fart this season) and if that happens to Milan in the next 6 months, you have only yourselves to blame. And this had happened only 18 months ago, remember?

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:So you are basically agreeing with Galliani? Coz I am sure Galliani is lining up 2-3 big transfers in te summer, with Zambrotta/Drogba/Frey likely to be the players.

But what they are risking, by ignoring their immediate issues, is the chance of CL football next season. At the mo, I expect Milan to make the top 4.... but a few injuries could easily change all that.

And then, players like Drogna will have second thoughts about a summer move...

And btw, in response to your sly shot at Inter, you will be surprised to know that the current Milan squad is MORE expensive than the current Inter squad!! Inter used to be silly in the market, but is history for a while now... In the last 3 years under Mancio, Inter have been very astute in the market. We spent very little to assemble a squad of good quality. Pre-2004, we used to spend much more, and have a poor squad compared to this one.

So I don't understand...Inter did not spend blithely in the years prior to 2007? You are taking the current squad, and I know the fact that you point out. But between 1998 and 2007, did Inter spend more than Milan or not? I thought they did, but I may be wrong.

Of course, the more apposite point is this: if spending brings success then it is justified. In the last 9 years, Milan have won 2 CLs, 2 Scudetti, a Supercup, a World Club Cup etc.

Inter have won 1 Scudetto (paper wars don't count) and a UEFA Cup.

As for agreeing with Gallaini--like I said, some days I do, others I don't. I think we need to find a happy medium between spending tons (Inter) and spending nothing (Milan). We hate Moggi, but he was a very smart man on the market.

So, in summary, I agree with you that we should have bought a player or two in this window.

Ok I was looking at everything from 1998 till now. Form 2004 onwards you have won one Scudetto on the field. Come on man, the 2006 one doesn't count. Let it go.

Milan won the Scudetto in 2004, a CL in 2007 and have played 2 finals of the CL. On top of that they have won international trophies. I defy anyone to tell me that Inter's achievements are more impressive in the last 4 years. Furthermore, we have done that with relatively little spending. Gilardino and Pato stand out as huge investments.

HOWEVER, yes, Inter have a better squad than we do. Also, your team looks like it is going to win more domestically.

I agree with the rest with just minor qualifications. Emerson has started to find his feet. We have Ambro also. It's not as if we are woefully ill-equipped to cope with even a spate of injuries. You make it seem like we are a hodge podge of a team, with almost no semblance of parity in the squad. It's not the case. Players like Favalli and Brocchi are conspicuously out of their depth alongside Nesta and Ambrosini, but that does not mean they don't do a decent job when called upon. Favalli (I know ) has put in some good performances for us.

Even Pancaro in his final year was playing as if he was a man possessed. What I am trying to get at here is that Milan certainly don't have the better squad, but we don't have a horrible one. Furthermore, only Chelsea and Inter can boast a healthy squad that is virtually immune to the rigours of a season. Not all of us have that luxury, and to tell you the truth, a club that can leave the likes of Crespo on the bench is probably functioning superbly well as a football team--but as a business it probably needs to get players off its wage book. And, sorry to say, Inter's dismal financial results bear that out.

So, in summary, some time in 2004 your management had an epiphany, and Moratti smartened up (let's go with that). But you still haven't won as much as Milan. I don't even think Inter take the 2006 Scudetto seriously.

I disagree. Since Mancio has taken over as the Inter coach (2004), Inter have been the better side.

Milan - 1 CL, 1 WCC
Inter - 2 Scudetto, 2 Coppa's, 2 Supercups

Now I know they are very different competitions and its hard to compare, but in my mind Inter's haul is more impressive. Specially if you add this season, where Milan are only alive in the CL, while Inter are still competing in all 3 competitions. And final point, of course will will count the 2006 scudetto... we have discussed it many times here, but that has been awared to Inter in liew of the seasons we were cheated out of... its official, by the hell would we not count it??

As for the final point on wage bill, let me remind you again that Milan's wage bill is shockingly BIGGER than Inter's inspite of us having the likes of Crespo on the bench and Adriano in exile. So if we have the "luxurious" squad, we still play them less than you do to your rather incomplete squad. So who is doing worse financially??

Don't go by the financial results posted - that just financial jugglery, both the milan clubs are bankrolled by rich businessmen, and how they prefer to show profits/loss is immaterial. What we should compare is the wage+transfer bill vs the performance.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:You got the years mixed up... 1995-2004, I completely agree... Moratti ran the club like a crazy fan with no patience and loads of money. The result was disaster, Cr@p ROI, and 13-14 different coaches in 10 seasons!!

From 2004 to now, Inter is a completely different club.... Mancio brought a lot of sanity to our transfer campaign, we spent less money to end up with a better squad, silverware, awesome ROI, and most improtantly the consistancy and continuity we lacked.

And this is clearly evident from the fact that at the mo, Inter's squad is less expensive than Milan's!! While even you would agree, our squad is more quality.... and we are on track for our 3rd consecutive scudetto. These are two very different and distinct era's, you can compare more objectively if you look at them separetely...

Anyways, this is about Milan. You guys have just left yourself very exposed to injury risk. One or two injuries you will easily manage, but as we know in San Siro teams end up with much larger numbers on the treatment table (we had about 11-12 injuries so fart this season) and if that happens to Milan in the next 6 months, you have only yourselves to blame. And this had happened only 18 months ago, remember?

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:So you are basically agreeing with Galliani? Coz I am sure Galliani is lining up 2-3 big transfers in te summer, with Zambrotta/Drogba/Frey likely to be the players.

But what they are risking, by ignoring their immediate issues, is the chance of CL football next season. At the mo, I expect Milan to make the top 4.... but a few injuries could easily change all that.

And then, players like Drogna will have second thoughts about a summer move...

And btw, in response to your sly shot at Inter, you will be surprised to know that the current Milan squad is MORE expensive than the current Inter squad!! Inter used to be silly in the market, but is history for a while now... In the last 3 years under Mancio, Inter have been very astute in the market. We spent very little to assemble a squad of good quality. Pre-2004, we used to spend much more, and have a poor squad compared to this one.

So I don't understand...Inter did not spend blithely in the years prior to 2007? You are taking the current squad, and I know the fact that you point out. But between 1998 and 2007, did Inter spend more than Milan or not? I thought they did, but I may be wrong.

Of course, the more apposite point is this: if spending brings success then it is justified. In the last 9 years, Milan have won 2 CLs, 2 Scudetti, a Supercup, a World Club Cup etc.

Inter have won 1 Scudetto (paper wars don't count) and a UEFA Cup.

As for agreeing with Gallaini--like I said, some days I do, others I don't. I think we need to find a happy medium between spending tons (Inter) and spending nothing (Milan). We hate Moggi, but he was a very smart man on the market.

So, in summary, I agree with you that we should have bought a player or two in this window.

Ok I was looking at everything from 1998 till now. Form 2004 onwards you have won one Scudetto on the field. Come on man, the 2006 one doesn't count. Let it go.

Milan won the Scudetto in 2004, a CL in 2007 and have played 2 finals of the CL. On top of that they have won international trophies. I defy anyone to tell me that Inter's achievements are more impressive in the last 4 years. Furthermore, we have done that with relatively little spending. Gilardino and Pato stand out as huge investments.

HOWEVER, yes, Inter have a better squad than we do. Also, your team looks like it is going to win more domestically.

I agree with the rest with just minor qualifications. Emerson has started to find his feet. We have Ambro also. It's not as if we are woefully ill-equipped to cope with even a spate of injuries. You make it seem like we are a hodge podge of a team, with almost no semblance of parity in the squad. It's not the case. Players like Favalli and Brocchi are conspicuously out of their depth alongside Nesta and Ambrosini, but that does not mean they don't do a decent job when called upon. Favalli (I know ) has put in some good performances for us.

Even Pancaro in his final year was playing as if he was a man possessed. What I am trying to get at here is that Milan certainly don't have the better squad, but we don't have a horrible one. Furthermore, only Chelsea and Inter can boast a healthy squad that is virtually immune to the rigours of a season. Not all of us have that luxury, and to tell you the truth, a club that can leave the likes of Crespo on the bench is probably functioning superbly well as a football team--but as a business it probably needs to get players off its wage book. And, sorry to say, Inter's dismal financial results bear that out.

So, in summary, some time in 2004 your management had an epiphany, and Moratti smartened up (let's go with that). But you still haven't won as much as Milan. I don't even think Inter take the 2006 Scudetto seriously.

bluenine wrote:I disagree. Since Mancio has taken over as the Inter coach (2004), Inter have been the better side.

Milan - 1 CL, 1 WCC
Inter - 2 Scudetto, 2 Coppa's, 2 Supercups

Now I know they are very different competitions and its hard to compare, but in my mind Inter's haul is more impressive. Specially if you add this season, where Milan are only alive in the CL, while Inter are still competing in all 3 competitions. And final point, of course will will count the 2006 scudetto... we have discussed it many times here, but that has been awared to Inter in liew of the seasons we were cheated out of... its official, by the hell would we not count it??

As for the final point on wage bill, let me remind you again that Milan's wage bill is shockingly BIGGER than Inter's inspite of us having the likes of Crespo on the bench and Adriano in exile. So if we have the "luxurious" squad, we still play them less than you do to your rather incomplete squad. So who is doing worse financially??

Don't go by the financial results posted - that just financial jugglery, both the milan clubs are bankrolled by rich businessmen, and how they prefer to show profits/loss is immaterial. What we should compare is the wage+transfer bill vs the performance.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:You got the years mixed up... 1995-2004, I completely agree... Moratti ran the club like a crazy fan with no patience and loads of money. The result was disaster, Cr@p ROI, and 13-14 different coaches in 10 seasons!!

From 2004 to now, Inter is a completely different club.... Mancio brought a lot of sanity to our transfer campaign, we spent less money to end up with a better squad, silverware, awesome ROI, and most improtantly the consistancy and continuity we lacked.

And this is clearly evident from the fact that at the mo, Inter's squad is less expensive than Milan's!! While even you would agree, our squad is more quality.... and we are on track for our 3rd consecutive scudetto. These are two very different and distinct era's, you can compare more objectively if you look at them separetely...

Anyways, this is about Milan. You guys have just left yourself very exposed to injury risk. One or two injuries you will easily manage, but as we know in San Siro teams end up with much larger numbers on the treatment table (we had about 11-12 injuries so fart this season) and if that happens to Milan in the next 6 months, you have only yourselves to blame. And this had happened only 18 months ago, remember?

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:So you are basically agreeing with Galliani? Coz I am sure Galliani is lining up 2-3 big transfers in te summer, with Zambrotta/Drogba/Frey likely to be the players.

But what they are risking, by ignoring their immediate issues, is the chance of CL football next season. At the mo, I expect Milan to make the top 4.... but a few injuries could easily change all that.

And then, players like Drogna will have second thoughts about a summer move...

And btw, in response to your sly shot at Inter, you will be surprised to know that the current Milan squad is MORE expensive than the current Inter squad!! Inter used to be silly in the market, but is history for a while now... In the last 3 years under Mancio, Inter have been very astute in the market. We spent very little to assemble a squad of good quality. Pre-2004, we used to spend much more, and have a poor squad compared to this one.

So I don't understand...Inter did not spend blithely in the years prior to 2007? You are taking the current squad, and I know the fact that you point out. But between 1998 and 2007, did Inter spend more than Milan or not? I thought they did, but I may be wrong.

Of course, the more apposite point is this: if spending brings success then it is justified. In the last 9 years, Milan have won 2 CLs, 2 Scudetti, a Supercup, a World Club Cup etc.

Inter have won 1 Scudetto (paper wars don't count) and a UEFA Cup.

As for agreeing with Gallaini--like I said, some days I do, others I don't. I think we need to find a happy medium between spending tons (Inter) and spending nothing (Milan). We hate Moggi, but he was a very smart man on the market.

So, in summary, I agree with you that we should have bought a player or two in this window.

Ok I was looking at everything from 1998 till now. Form 2004 onwards you have won one Scudetto on the field. Come on man, the 2006 one doesn't count. Let it go.

Milan won the Scudetto in 2004, a CL in 2007 and have played 2 finals of the CL. On top of that they have won international trophies. I defy anyone to tell me that Inter's achievements are more impressive in the last 4 years. Furthermore, we have done that with relatively little spending. Gilardino and Pato stand out as huge investments.

HOWEVER, yes, Inter have a better squad than we do. Also, your team looks like it is going to win more domestically.

I agree with the rest with just minor qualifications. Emerson has started to find his feet. We have Ambro also. It's not as if we are woefully ill-equipped to cope with even a spate of injuries. You make it seem like we are a hodge podge of a team, with almost no semblance of parity in the squad. It's not the case. Players like Favalli and Brocchi are conspicuously out of their depth alongside Nesta and Ambrosini, but that does not mean they don't do a decent job when called upon. Favalli (I know ) has put in some good performances for us.

Even Pancaro in his final year was playing as if he was a man possessed. What I am trying to get at here is that Milan certainly don't have the better squad, but we don't have a horrible one. Furthermore, only Chelsea and Inter can boast a healthy squad that is virtually immune to the rigours of a season. Not all of us have that luxury, and to tell you the truth, a club that can leave the likes of Crespo on the bench is probably functioning superbly well as a football team--but as a business it probably needs to get players off its wage book. And, sorry to say, Inter's dismal financial results bear that out.

So, in summary, some time in 2004 your management had an epiphany, and Moratti smartened up (let's go with that). But you still haven't won as much as Milan. I don't even think Inter take the 2006 Scudetto seriously.

So I shouldn't go by the fact that Milan made a profit and are more self-sufficient than Inter?

No one takes the 2006 Scudetto seriously. It's a joke.

We pay our squad more, but our squad has done better, and the CL has guaranteed us more income.

By the way, Milan have also won a Supercup in this time period (a slightly more prestigious one).

We have played 2 CL Finals. Inter, well, you know what they have done in Europe.

Domestically you have been more successful, yes. You also hugely benefited from Calciopoli, while Milan could not. Not exactly a masterstroke by your management. Moggi gave you gems like Ibra.

So, since 2004 (I am sorry, I cannot count the Scudetto in 2006):

Inter- 1 Scudetto *, 1 Italian Supercup
Milan- 1 CL, 1 WCC, and 1 Supercup (plus they also played in a European Final and a semi-final).

*- Blue, let's not forget I am being generous. The Scudetto you won was without Juve in the mix. Milan, Lazio, and Fiorentina all started with a points deduction. Yeah you played amazingly, but it was not an EVEN contest!

so let me understand this. Milan/Juve cheat and they are ahead of Inter and they get punished, so shouldnt it be next in line?
also in the history books it does say Inter in 2006 so it is a fact not something to be disputed. Also Inter did get something out of the Calciopoli but Juve/Milan got help in the years before it broke out. Inter are currently winning on the field without any help and they did so in 2007 aswell. Milan havent done great this year in serie a or the last couple of years.
also in my opinion the titles that should be counted should be the big ones like Cl or League because those are the only ones that can save a season.
Allthough i agree with you regarding being selfsufficient where milan seems to be doing better.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
Inter- 1 Scudetto *, 1 Italian Supercup
Milan- 1 CL, 1 WCC, and 1 Supercup (plus they also played in a European Final and a semi-final).

*- Blue, let's not forget I am being generous. The Scudetto you won was without Juve in the mix. Milan, Lazio, and Fiorentina all started with a points deduction. Yeah you played amazingly, but it was not an EVEN contest!

What have you been smoking?? Inter have won 2 supercups, and 2 coppas in this period, apart from the 2 scudetti.... and who the hell are you to decide anything?? We won the 2005-06 scudetto coz Juve and Milan CHEATED. So get out of denial, and learn to live with reality, my friend. If you are punished for cheating, it does not mean that the winner's achievement does not count... It can be counter argued that Inter were cheated out of more than 1 scudetto in the last decade of Moggi rule - but then unlike you, I don't live in denial. Inter won the scudetto in 2005-06, and thats that.

As for 2006-07, thank you so much for your "genrosity"... I am sure if Milan did not have the 8 points deduction, they would have easily won the scudetto

And of course, this season Milan are again just being generous. Thank you again. I hope you guys remain so generous for many more seasons to come!

Spot on, Supermadrid... apparently for some Milan and Juve fans, its is fine if teams cheat and win, but if they get disqualified coz of cheating and the best fair team wins, that should not be counted. Its a seriously and morally warped sense of logic!

Next what, Carl Lewis did not deserve the Gold medal in 1988 Olympics coz Ben Johnson took drugs??

Some people just need to come out of denial.

supermadrid wrote:so let me understand this. Milan/Juve cheat and they are ahead of Inter and they get punished, so shouldnt it be next in line?
also in the history books it does say Inter in 2006 so it is a fact not something to be disputed. Also Inter did get something out of the Calciopoli but Juve/Milan got help in the years before it broke out. Inter are currently winning on the field without any help and they did so in 2007 aswell. Milan havent done great this year in serie a or the last couple of years.
also in my opinion the titles that should be counted should be the big ones like Cl or League because those are the only ones that can save a season.
Allthough i agree with you regarding being selfsufficient where milan seems to be doing better.

bluenine wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
Inter- 1 Scudetto *, 1 Italian Supercup
Milan- 1 CL, 1 WCC, and 1 Supercup (plus they also played in a European Final and a semi-final).

*- Blue, let's not forget I am being generous. The Scudetto you won was without Juve in the mix. Milan, Lazio, and Fiorentina all started with a points deduction. Yeah you played amazingly, but it was not an EVEN contest!

What have you been smoking?? Inter have won 2 supercups, and 2 coppas in this period, apart from the 2 scudetti.... and who the hell are you to decide anything?? We won the 2005-06 scudetto coz Juve and Milan CHEATED. So get out of denial, and learn to live with reality, my friend. If you are punished for cheating, it does not mean that the winner's achievement does not count... It can be counter argued that Inter were cheated out of more than 1 scudetto in the last decade of Moggi rule - but then unlike you, I don't live in denial. Inter won the scudetto in 2005-06, and thats that.

As for 2006-07, thank you so much for your "genrosity"... I am sure if Milan did not have the 8 points deduction, they would have easily won the scudetto

And of course, this season Milan are again just being generous. Thank you again. I hope you guys remain so generous for many more seasons to come!

Sorry 2 Italian Supercups .

Inter won with a headstart --Fact
Inter won the Scudetto in 2006 in court--Fact

These may be great victories for you, but for most neutrals (please, even the non-Berlusconi owned media), they weren't real victories.

This season your (probable) triumph will be real.

Forgive me if I don't count Coppa Italias.

As for me living in denial etc. fascinating stuff, but irrelevant. I am just giving you my point of view. I even conceded you have a better squad and are playing better. What else do you want? To recognize two farcical Scudetti? They may be acceptable to you, but, sorry, they aren't to me--or to a lot of people.

Finally, I wouldn't start getting too cocky yet. The season isn't over.

So coppa's and supercup's aren't "real trophies", but the "Club World Cup" is?? That must have been what you call a "real victory"! The "World Champions", yeah right!

Anyways, we just agree to disagree on this one then. And lets see how this and the next season turns out.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
Sorry 2 Italian Supercups .

Inter won with a headstart --Fact
Inter won the Scudetto in 2006 in court--Fact

These may be great victories for you, but for most neutrals (please, even the non-Berlusconi owned media), they weren't real victories.

This season your (probable) triumph will be real.

Forgive me if I don't count Coppa Italias.

As for me living in denial etc. fascinating stuff, but irrelevant. I am just giving you my point of view. I even conceded you have a better squad and are playing better. What else do you want? To recognize two farcical Scudetti? They may be acceptable to you, but, sorry, they aren't to me--or to a lot of people.

Finally, I wouldn't start getting too cocky yet. The season isn't over.

The 2006 Scudetto shouldn't have been given to anyone like the 2005 one.

bluenine wrote:So coppa's and supercup's aren't "real trophies", but the "Club World Cup" is?? That must have been what you call a "real victory"! The "World Champions", yeah right!

Anyways, we just agree to disagree on this one then. And lets see how this and the next season turns out.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
Sorry 2 Italian Supercups .

Inter won with a headstart --Fact
Inter won the Scudetto in 2006 in court--Fact

These may be great victories for you, but for most neutrals (please, even the non-Berlusconi owned media), they weren't real victories.

This season your (probable) triumph will be real.

Forgive me if I don't count Coppa Italias.

As for me living in denial etc. fascinating stuff, but irrelevant. I am just giving you my point of view. I even conceded you have a better squad and are playing better. What else do you want? To recognize two farcical Scudetti? They may be acceptable to you, but, sorry, they aren't to me--or to a lot of people.

Finally, I wouldn't start getting too cocky yet. The season isn't over.

Well for starters teams were full strength for the CWC. South Americans take it very seriously and so did Milan.

Anyway, it was fun.

first of all i dont even think that these supers cops both domestic/europe/world counts for much because it is 1 or 2 games so it shows very little. at least the copa is for a longer time and it doesnt exclude anybody.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan!
Regarding trophies that count i dont how milans league title from 2004 can count but not inters in 2006. Do you agree that milan cheated or not? if you dont then i understand your point because you feel cheated but if you do then you are in no position to decide what titles count or not because reality is that the league titles of the last 10 years should be looked at because i highly doubt that these systems of cheating suddenly appeard in two seasons between 2004-2006.

supermadrid wrote:first of all i dont even think that these supers cops both domestic/europe/world counts for much because it is 1 or 2 games so it shows very little. at least the copa is for a longer time and it doesnt exclude anybody.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan!
Regarding trophies that count i dont how milans league title from 2004 can count but not inters in 2006. Do you agree that milan cheated or not? if you dont then i understand your point because you feel cheated but if you do then you are in no position to decide what titles count or not because reality is that the league titles of the last 10 years should be looked at because i highly doubt that these systems of cheating suddenly appeard in two seasons between 2004-2006.

Without getting too involved in it (because it never gets anywhere), Milan had a very peripheral involvement in the whole thing. Also, there are pages and pages of evidence that Moratti's cronies were had a hand in bringing the scandal to light (one can at least speculate as to the nature of their omissions). I generally think conspiracies can get out of hand, but I am talking about mainstream Italian sources (I can give you the links, if you can understand Italian. I'd just have to dig them up.). Bluenine will play the Berlu owned media card, and there is an element of truth to that. But, Corriere dello sport is a Rome based newspaper that is none too kind to Inter and Milan.

Anyway, I am willing to go with bluenine's position that Milan cheated. Fair enough. I still don't think the 2006 Scudetto should have been assigned. Even when Inter won last year, some of their players acknowledged that "it felt like a real triumph" and the last one didn't. As for 2004, Milan won the Scudetto. Bluenine is taking everything from the 2004-05 season and onwards because Mancini was at the helm. Even in that framework, Milan have won a CL and played two Finals. Inter have won a Scudetto in which not all teams started from the same spot. Of course they were simply unstoppable when they won it. A machine. But those are the facts.

Here we go again.

1. Milan may have had a "peripheral" involvement in calciopoli, thats why their punishment was so light. Even most Milan fans agreed that they got away lightly.

2. People who say that the 2006 scudetto should not have been reassigned to Inter, they have a point. But to be fair, its not like Moggi only started cheating after the investigation started... They should have nulled all Juve's scudetti since Moggi took over... I think everyone who followed Serie A saw how Inter were cheated out of the scudetto in 1998 - and now when you realise how Moggi ran the business, I don't think anyone doubts that the numerous "wrong decisions" in 1998 were "influenced"... of course the 2006 scudetto did not feel like a real win for Inter... but did we deserve it, hell yeah we more than deserved it - in liew of the few we were cheated out of.

Anyways, what is past is past... we beat ya in the last 3 derby's, thats what usually settles the arguement in Milan!!

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
Without getting too involved in it (because it never gets anywhere), Milan had a very peripheral involvement in the whole thing. Also, there are pages and pages of evidence that Moratti's cronies were had a hand in bringing the scandal to light (one can at least speculate as to the nature of their omissions). I generally think conspiracies can get out of hand, but I am talking about mainstream Italian sources (I can give you the links, if you can understand Italian. I'd just have to dig them up.). Bluenine will play the Berlu owned media card, and there is an element of truth to that. But, Corriere dello sport is a Rome based newspaper that is none too kind to Inter and Milan.

Anyway, I am willing to go with bluenine's position that Milan cheated. Fair enough. I still don't think the 2006 Scudetto should have been assigned. Even when Inter won last year, some of their players acknowledged that "it felt like a real triumph" and the last one didn't. As for 2004, Milan won the Scudetto. Bluenine is taking everything from the 2004-05 season and onwards because Mancini was at the helm. Even in that framework, Milan have won a CL and played two Finals. Inter have won a Scudetto in which not all teams started from the same spot. Of course they were simply unstoppable when they won it. A machine. But those are the facts.

That is more interesting part to investigate. how long did this system happen for juve and milan. imo they have just skimmed over it and they dont really want to make any change because if they did all league titles since moggi entered should put under the scope.

1. Where did you get that from?

2. What has Moggi to do with Milan? The same why Milan was cheated out of the 2005 scudetto. Remember Colina and game in Torino.

bluenine wrote:Here we go again.

1. Milan may have had a "peripheral" involvement in calciopoli, thats why their punishment was so light. Even most Milan fans agreed that they got away lightly.

2. People who say that the 2006 scudetto should not have been reassigned to Inter, they have a point. But to be fair, its not like Moggi only started cheating after the investigation started... They should have nulled all Juve's scudetti since Moggi took over... I think everyone who followed Serie A saw how Inter were cheated out of the scudetto in 1998 - and now when you realise how Moggi ran the business, I don't think anyone doubts that the numerous "wrong decisions" in 1998 were "influenced"... of course the 2006 scudetto did not feel like a real win for Inter... but did we deserve it, hell yeah we more than deserved it - in liew of the few we were cheated out of.

Anyways, what is past is past... we beat ya in the last 3 derby's, thats what usually settles the arguement in Milan!!

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
Without getting too involved in it (because it never gets anywhere), Milan had a very peripheral involvement in the whole thing. Also, there are pages and pages of evidence that Moratti's cronies were had a hand in bringing the scandal to light (one can at least speculate as to the nature of their omissions). I generally think conspiracies can get out of hand, but I am talking about mainstream Italian sources (I can give you the links, if you can understand Italian. I'd just have to dig them up.). Bluenine will play the Berlu owned media card, and there is an element of truth to that. But, Corriere dello sport is a Rome based newspaper that is none too kind to Inter and Milan.

Anyway, I am willing to go with bluenine's position that Milan cheated. Fair enough. I still don't think the 2006 Scudetto should have been assigned. Even when Inter won last year, some of their players acknowledged that "it felt like a real triumph" and the last one didn't. As for 2004, Milan won the Scudetto. Bluenine is taking everything from the 2004-05 season and onwards because Mancini was at the helm. Even in that framework, Milan have won a CL and played two Finals. Inter have won a Scudetto in which not all teams started from the same spot. Of course they were simply unstoppable when they won it. A machine. But those are the facts.