Kill off the League Cup

I don't get the point of this second cup in England, and with all clubs always complaining about the number games to be played, why not just disband it?

100% Yes.

Or at least don't let the teams in Europe (CL or UEFA) play in it.

Yes.

nah keep it going

its potential for more upsets + gives more money to the lower league clubs. I like it.

I say keep it, gives smaller clubs chance for silverware. It's been awful in recent times how the big 4 have been taking it seriously.

robert wrote:I say keep it, gives smaller clubs chance for silverware. It's been awful in recent times how the big 4 have been taking it seriously.

Then why not have a dozen titles.. then everybody wins something

I get the money argument, but you could do it in a more elegant way than this cup that none of the big clubs take seriousely anyway and the football is usually horrendous.

Keep it - we need a path back into Europe

robert wrote:I say keep it, gives smaller clubs chance for meaningless silverware. It's been awful in recent times how the big 4 have been taking it seriously.

In recent times the "big 4" have merely used it to prove their reserves are better than everyone elses first teams. Well, Arsenal and Chelsea have.

Kimbo wrote:

robert wrote:I say keep it, gives smaller clubs chance for meaningless silverware. It's been awful in recent times how the big 4 have been taking it seriously.

In recent times the "big 4" have merely used it to prove their reserves are better than everyone elses first teams. Well, Arsenal and Chelsea have.

Well when have Arsenal won it? we did

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

robert wrote:I say keep it, gives smaller clubs chance for silverware. It's been awful in recent times how the big 4 have been taking it seriously.

Then why not have a dozen titles.. then everybody wins something

I get the money argument, but you could do it in a more elegant way than this cup that none of the big clubs take seriousely anyway and the football is usually horrendous.

A dozen titles dilutes everything and promote mediocrity. Having 3 tophies on offer in the country doesn't, particularly when 2 realistically only have 4 clubs in the running for them.

L r d wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

robert wrote:I say keep it, gives smaller clubs chance for meaningless silverware. It's been awful in recent times how the big 4 have been taking it seriously.

In recent times the "big 4" have merely used it to prove their reserves are better than everyone elses first teams. Well, Arsenal and Chelsea have.

Well when have Arsenal won it? we did

Did you? That's how $h!t it is, i don't even keep track of it. Arsenals reserves are the 5th best team in England though, sad, but a true story.

Little clubs need it for money for a start...a couple of wins in a cup and that's very important to them...

Keep it.

Carlton Cole wrote:Little clubs need it for money for a start...a couple of wins in a cup and that's very important to them...

Keep it.

Don't think you'd be saying that if Cole hadn't done the business!

Luis wrote:

Carlton Cole wrote:Little clubs need it for money for a start...a couple of wins in a cup and that's very important to them...

Keep it.

Don't think you'd be saying that if Cole hadn't done the business!

Why? I like both cups...no matter what the competition is, I like to see us play.

Besides...there are too many small clubs in $h!t financial situations these days...

Watching Arsenal's youngsters is the only thing that makes Carling Cup interesting. Ask Arsenal fans and they will tell u that they look forward to League Cup.

Well it meant so much to Alex and Man U fans not long ago.

No. As Deano mentioned it is a good financial incentive for the smaller clubs to make a bit of money. Doncaster reached the Quarter Finals two years ago and Wycombe even made the Semi Final. It would have helped them alot.

Bigger clubs may not take it as seriously, but thats there decision. I look forward to seeing Arsenal in any fixture in every competition.

smaller clubs like us (Cardiff City) who used a reserve team in the early rounds, the cost of travelling to away matches outweighs the majority of financial gain, unless you draw a top 4 club, even then cos they only come in late on the chances are minimal. it's a complete waste of time.

Keep it. For the reasons Deano and Cesc gave plus even if we (Man United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal) don't take it ultra seriously, it's still good for the younger players to be given chances.

Cesc wrote:No. As Deano mentioned it is a good financial incentive for the smaller clubs to make a bit of money. Doncaster reached the Quarter Finals two years ago and Wycombe even made the Semi Final. It would have helped them alot.
.

Not a reason for keeping it though. You can make another cup with big and small teams, and make the same argument doesnt mean we really should make one. How long until it isnt a good finiacial incentive for them anyway? The more clubs that don't care the less money the less anybody makes from it as the attendences will also be down.

the cup needs to be reformed not abolished.

This cup used to be a well thought of cup, when it was the Coca-Cola cup...since teams started resting players for it, the thing was devalued...

I can understand if you are playing a league two club, and you give oher players/youngsters a chance.

For me, I'd be very disappointed if it was got rid of. Cup matches are a tradition for me.

I can only echo rza and Cesc. As regards the "too much football" argument, something more far-reaching needs to be done, e.g. maybe introducing a winter break/cutting the EPL to 18 clubs. It's only six extra games (if you make the final) and either big teams get a chance to give their fringe players a run-out, or often smaller ones get to have a big tie against a big club they have a decent chance of beating.

How not to do it: Manure owners forcing all season-ticket holders to pay up for League Cup games and their "youngsters" then performing abysmally in a 2-0 home defeat to Coventry in front of 74,000.

How to do it: Sell all seats for £10 and £20, have a sellout with a big and vocal contingent of visiting fans and a quality game, as in Arsenal v Newcastle. Obviously not all teams have reserves good enough to make the same quality likely, but the less depth you have, the more likely you are to play a quality team and take the cup seriously...

Allez les rouges wrote:I can only echo rza and Cesc. As regards the "too much football" argument, something more far-reaching needs to be done, e.g. maybe introducing a winter break/cutting the EPL to 18 clubs. It's only six extra games (if you make the final) and either big teams get a chance to give their fringe players a run-out, or often smaller ones get to have a big tie against a big club they have a decent chance of beating.

How not to do it: Manure owners forcing all season-ticket holders to pay up for League Cup games and their "youngsters" then performing abysmally in a 2-0 home defeat to Coventry in front of 74,000.

How to do it: Sell all seats for £10 and £20, have a sellout with a big and vocal contingent of visiting fans and a quality game, as in Arsenal v Newcastle. Obviously not all teams have reserves good enough to make the same quality likely, but the less depth you have, the more likely you are to play a quality team and take the cup seriously...

It's a bit rich trying to match a reason to suit your agenda's.

The reality is Wenger was the first person to undermine the competition by playing a whole team of youngsters. If people wanted to see Arsenal's youngsters then they would go watch the Arsenal reserves.

From then on others teams followed, and now you have the situation where teams like Cardiff are resting players for the competition. But in your mind they should keep the cup alive so you can watch arsenal's youngsters against other clubs B teams?

I would rather get rid of the league cup than cut the premiership down to 18 teams. A winter break basically breaks tradition of the big christmas/new year schedule.

As for Man Utd, i think Fergie uses the competion to give fringe players a game and some youngsters, as it was this year a bunch of people who have never played together before. Arsenal's fringe players are probably all youngsters since he only buys kids, and they probably play together every week, which explains more the style and results.

its a pointless competition these days, name the last 5 winners, how many of these would be happy to scrap it 80% i'd say.

I haven't got stats but i wonder how many teams rested players outside the top 4 in the first rounds, plenty we played a lot of fringe players in the first couple of rounds, i'm sure this is replicated in many teams, even CCC teams who are striving for promotion, or avoiding relegation. IF they make it through to the later rounds fine, good draw some cash if they don't no big deal.

as for a winter break thats easy from Jan. 2nd for 3 weeks.

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:
as for a winter break thats easy from Jan. 2nd for 3 weeks.

I would agree to that. The thing is, english winter causes lots of games to be postponed some years. If there is a winter break, then the fixtures will just be relentless for some teams. Unless they can catch up during the winter break.

less so in the EPL i would have thought, with no CC Cup games and less league games, i'm sure they'll find more midweek options in the event that its necessary to play catch up

L r d wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:I can only echo rza and Cesc. As regards the "too much football" argument, something more far-reaching needs to be done, e.g. maybe introducing a winter break/cutting the EPL to 18 clubs. It's only six extra games (if you make the final) and either big teams get a chance to give their fringe players a run-out, or often smaller ones get to have a big tie against a big club they have a decent chance of beating.

How not to do it: Manure owners forcing all season-ticket holders to pay up for League Cup games and their "youngsters" then performing abysmally in a 2-0 home defeat to Coventry in front of 74,000.

How to do it: Sell all seats for £10 and £20, have a sellout with a big and vocal contingent of visiting fans and a quality game, as in Arsenal v Newcastle. Obviously not all teams have reserves good enough to make the same quality likely, but the less depth you have, the more likely you are to play a quality team and take the cup seriously...

It's a bit rich trying to match a reason to suit your agenda's.

The reality is Wenger was the first person to undermine the competition by playing a whole team of youngsters. If people wanted to see Arsenal's youngsters then they would go watch the Arsenal reserves.

From then on others teams followed, and now you have the situation where teams like Cardiff are resting players for the competition. But in your mind they should keep the cup alive so you can watch arsenal's youngsters against other clubs B teams?

I would rather get rid of the league cup than cut the premiership down to 18 teams. A winter break basically breaks tradition of the big christmas/new year schedule.

As for Man Utd, i think Fergie uses the competion to give fringe players a game and some youngsters, as it was this year a bunch of people who have never played together before. Arsenal's fringe players are probably all youngsters since he only buys kids, and they probably play together every week, which explains more the style and results.

Trivialize and belittle our "youngsters" if you like. Tonight's team will feature one of the best Polish goalkeepers; in all probability, Kolo Touré; Juston Hoyte, who's played plenty of top games and has played for England U21; Armand Traoré, one of the most exciting young full-backs around, who deserves a chance; probably Gilberto; Diarra and Diaby, French internationals both; Croatian international Eduardo and Theo Walcott, and others.

My attitude might suit my "agenda's", but I know that my club has a worthy attitude to this competition, as we saw last season. I wish I could say the same for yours. Maybe it is a case of us having better "youngsters" (last I checked Rooney, Tevez, Anderson, Nani and Ronaldo were pretty good), but I suggest it's a bit unfair to trivialize our teams for this competition in such terms. There are very few games to play if you don't make the final stages, and I think it's worth taking them seriously.

P.S. Newcastle played a clear "A" team against us last time, as I expect will Sheffield United tonight (like, say, Tottenham and Chelsea last season).

I think the difference is, our "youngsters" are not our back up players. Our back up players are players like Silvestre, Brown, O'Shea, Park & Saha and sometimes Fergie doesn't even play them.

In the League cup he plays the real youngsters and alot of them wouldn't even get in our second XI.

Fair enough, but the likes of Senderos, Clichy, Sagna, Cesc and Walcott, even Bendtner (you could even include the Emmanuels) all feature regularly in our first team – it's one set of youngsters with another lot banging on the door. (And of course some crucial experience holding it together...)

Thats what the problem with the Coventry game was. He put 11 youngsters together who haven't played together. Normally you need 3/4 old heads to keep it together.

A rare thing, a Fergie mistake.