whats got to happen?

after the very strange display last night im just left thinking what the hell has got to happen to clear this mess up?..this is a very dark day for the english national side..

i actually find myself agreeing with a lot of people i would normally think are just england bashing...id suggest..now we have almost a year to have a look around...throwing the entire midfield out...all of them...they have been given numerous chances...havnt performed and dont deserve their place anymore..if they want their place back...let them fight for them.

bring in some of the young players who seem to be performing but do not spoil them as it would seem we have spoiled the current players..

The next manager should have 'don't play Gerrard and Lampard in the same squad' emblazened on his forehead.

Seriously though, we now have to start building for WC2010, so its probably about time to start blooding a few of the next generation. Players like Lennon, Young, Carson.

I know Carson made a huge mistake with the first goal, but aside from that he did pretty well, and I have no confidence whatsoever in Robbo, so I'd be happy enough to see someone else given a chance.

We also need to start playing ball retainers in midfield. I'd almost be inclined to drop both Gerrard and Lampard altogether from the squad, or maybe play Gerrard on the right and two CMs from Barry, Hargreaves and Carrick.

Tweesus of Nazareth wrote:The next manager should have 'don't play Gerrard and Lampard in the same squad' emblazened on his forehead.

Seriously though, we now have to start building for WC2010, so its probably about time to start blooding a few of the next generation. Players like Lennon, Young, Carson.

I know Carson made a huge mistake with the first goal, but aside from that he did pretty well, and I have no confidence whatsoever in Robbo, so I'd be happy enough to see someone else given a chance.

We also need to start playing ball retainers in midfield. I'd almost be inclined to drop both Gerrard and Lampard altogether from the squad, or maybe play Gerrard on the right and two CMs from Barry, Hargreaves and Carrick.

i honestly wouldnt play gerrard or lampard for the next few friendlies..im not sure who is more at fault.

Tweesus of Nazareth wrote:The next manager should have 'don't play Gerrard and Lampard'

Build an academy for young players and coaches, import coaching techniques from technically and tactically superior countries like Brazil, Germany, Holland, Argentina, halve the prices at Wembley to enable proper fans to get there and support the team, sack the entire FA except Brooking, change the transfer regulations to enable smaller clubs to hang onto their promising youngsters so they don't all end up at 8 clubs from which only half a dozen will actually get the games they need to develop.

Quotas are the thickest idea I've ever heard of. It's just positive discrimination by another name...

Christ the Redeemer wrote:Build an academy for young players and coaches, import coaching techniques from technically and tactically superior countries like Brazil, Germany, Holland, Argentina, halve the prices at Wembley to enable proper fans to get there and support the team, sack the entire FA except Brooking, change the transfer regulations to enable smaller clubs to hang onto their promising youngsters so they don't all end up at 8 clubs from which only half a dozen will actually get the games they need to develop.

Quotas are the thickest idea I've ever heard of. It's just positive discrimination by another name...

plus get 10 year olds playing on smaller pitches

Completely change English football culture. Or just English culture in general, perhaps by somehow moving the island 2000 miles to the south.

The-Frankinsense-Tavern wrote:

Christ the Redeemer wrote:Build an academy for young players and coaches, import coaching techniques from technically and tactically superior countries like Brazil, Germany, Holland, Argentina, halve the prices at Wembley to enable proper fans to get there and support the team, sack the entire FA except Brooking, change the transfer regulations to enable smaller clubs to hang onto their promising youngsters so they don't all end up at 8 clubs from which only half a dozen will actually get the games they need to develop.

Quotas are the thickest idea I've ever heard of. It's just positive discrimination by another name...

plus get 10 year olds playing on smaller pitches

That'd be a start.

Also, sack any coaches who focuses entirely on athletic ability or slags off the players who can actually run with and pass the ball.

Christ the Redeemer wrote:

The-Frankinsense-Tavern wrote:

Christ the Redeemer wrote:Build an academy for young players and coaches, import coaching techniques from technically and tactically superior countries like Brazil, Germany, Holland, Argentina, halve the prices at Wembley to enable proper fans to get there and support the team, sack the entire FA except Brooking, change the transfer regulations to enable smaller clubs to hang onto their promising youngsters so they don't all end up at 8 clubs from which only half a dozen will actually get the games they need to develop.

Quotas are the thickest idea I've ever heard of. It's just positive discrimination by another name...

plus get 10 year olds playing on smaller pitches

That'd be a start.

Also, sack any coaches who focuses entirely on athletic ability or slags off the players who can actually run with and pass the ball.

I said that last night. I'm gonna make it my mission to personally slate every team which plays hoof football in this country. It needs to be stamped out root and branch for god sake. Any manager playing it should be sacked.

the result of this changes would you see in 10-15 years, do you have so many time

have to start somewhere deisler, can't put it off cos it'll take 10-15 years which it surely will if not longer

I think most people here are over reacting. I can totally understand these reactions after a debacle, I feel for you guys.

There is no crisis in English football, and you do not need to overhaul the system. You just have a tactically inept coach, who got out-thought in some critical games. England have better individual quality than Russia, and as good if not better than Croatia. I can bet if it were a Lippi/Mourinho/Scolari at helm, England would have qualified for Euro2008, and probably comfortably from this group.

Thats it, thats all you need to change. FA has made the first step by sacking Steve, now for the key decision of hiring a top coach. You need a top top coach.

PS: Also sack the FA officials who selected Mclaren.

bluenine wrote: England have better individual quality than Russia, and as good if not better than Croatia.

bullsh¡t, they are made to look good in anverage league, ffs blue9 you are better than these comments

bluenine wrote:I think most people here are over reacting. I can totally understand these reactions after a debacle, I feel for you guys.

There is no crisis in English football, and you do not need to overhaul the system. You just have a tactically inept coach, who got out-thought in some critical games. England have better individual quality than Russia, and as good if not better than Croatia. I can bet if it were a Lippi/Mourinho/Scolari at helm, England would have qualified for Euro2008, and probably comfortably from this group.

Thats it, thats all you need to change. FA has made the first step by sacking Steve, now for the key decision of hiring a top coach. You need a top top coach.

PS: Also sack the FA officials who selected Mclaren.

I agree, but we would have qualified even if Croatia just werent so intent on beating us. However, we are never going to win anything playing like this, who cares if we can get to quarter finals?
We need to adapt to the continental style from the grassroots up, we are stuck in the past culturally with all this working class grafter bullshit. Theres loads of kids in the park with tonnes of skill and flair, but they hate playing in proper matches because they just get kicked off the pitch.

Yup, England does not have better individual players than Russia or Croatia.
It's the system. That's all.

I think maybe what England needs, it's a mission to acomplish. Or call it Chelsea, MU thing.
They got the funds, they got the players (some of them), change the system, get a world class coach (Mourinho) who will get you the result, no matter how you play. Make that a 5, 10 year plan.

I agree with blue9. We have a tactically inept coach who didn't understand the concept of 'team'. He seemed set on picking the big names and then trying to force them into a formation and position they weren't comfortable in.

With a good coach whose willing to make decisons that may raise eyebrows, we could go pretty far.

Tweesus of Nazareth wrote:I agree with blue9. We have a tactically inept coach who didn't understand the concept of 'team'.

but nor do the players too many selfish fookers in there who need to be dropped for good, regardless of club form.

Christ the Redeemer wrote:

The-Frankinsense-Tavern wrote:

Christ the Redeemer wrote:Build an academy for young players and coaches, import coaching techniques from technically and tactically superior countries like Brazil, Germany, Holland, Argentina, halve the prices at Wembley to enable proper fans to get there and support the team, sack the entire FA except Brooking, change the transfer regulations to enable smaller clubs to hang onto their promising youngsters so they don't all end up at 8 clubs from which only half a dozen will actually get the games they need to develop.

Quotas are the thickest idea I've ever heard of. It's just positive discrimination by another name...

plus get 10 year olds playing on smaller pitches

That'd be a start.

Also, sack any coaches who focuses entirely on athletic ability or slags off the players who can actually run with and pass the ball.

All the above already happens with academies, and has been for a decade or so.

FG i seriously think the quality of coaching is way off, and its not just about academies ALL kids shouldn't be playing on full size pitches

You kidding me?

Rio, A Cole, Beckham, Rooney, SWP, Owen - they are all quality players. From a individual players perspective, England are a top 10 side in the world. There is no reason for England to get knocked out of qualifiers, a team with this much quality should always qualify!!

Its the tactics. Blame Sven all you want, but he is tactically very astute and has proved that repeatedly for over 20 years. People easily forget hoiw close England were to winning the WC in 2002. Sven had built England into a fantastic unit in that world cup, the defeat of Argentina and that close loss to Brazil were brilliant. That was not par for the course for England, that was overachievement. Even his biggest "failure" - the last world cup - he made the quarters... and if it weren't for Rooney loosing his head and getting red carded, anything could have happened. Its a big blow to be down to 10 men in the quarters against a quality team like Portugal, FOR ANY TEAM. Many people here say that England were playing Cr@p (true) but they were doing the business and their defense was working well which is critical for winning a WC. Hell, Argentina almost won the world cup playing like that in 1990.

Sven was sacked at a good time, I don't deny that... IMO the optimal life of a national coach is ideally between 3-4 years, after that they start going downhill... Sven looked like he was running out of ideas in his last 2 years, but he had done well and built a good unit... 3 consecutive QFs are an overachievement, its like if Brazil makes 3 consecutive finals... what England needed was another top coach who could pick it from there and take it to the next level. Instead the FA went for a tactically inept coach and destroyed it all.

The players england have currently, give them to a top tactician and see the difference it makes. Don't expect to win the WC (very few countries can afford such expectations), but as long as you are challenging (like England did in 2002 with Sven) its a good thing. After that, anything can happen.... if you are challenging for 4-5 consecutive cups, you might end up winning one. Thats how it usually works.

TITO wrote:Yup, England does not have better individual players than Russia or Croatia.
It's the system. That's all.

Football Genius wrote:

Christ the Redeemer wrote:

The-Frankinsense-Tavern wrote:

Christ the Redeemer wrote:Build an academy for young players and coaches, import coaching techniques from technically and tactically superior countries like Brazil, Germany, Holland, Argentina, halve the prices at Wembley to enable proper fans to get there and support the team, sack the entire FA except Brooking, change the transfer regulations to enable smaller clubs to hang onto their promising youngsters so they don't all end up at 8 clubs from which only half a dozen will actually get the games they need to develop.

Quotas are the thickest idea I've ever heard of. It's just positive discrimination by another name...

plus get 10 year olds playing on smaller pitches

That'd be a start.

Also, sack any coaches who focuses entirely on athletic ability or slags off the players who can actually run with and pass the ball.

All the above already happens with academies, and has been for a decade or so.

I don't believe you, because if anything the technical quality of English players has degraded over that period.

Christ the Redeemer wrote:I don't believe you, because if anything the technical quality of English players has degraded over that period.

i was tempted to say the same saints but as id didn't know i decided not to, but i certainly have my doubts

Christ the Redeemer wrote:

Football Genius wrote:

Christ the Redeemer wrote:

The-Frankinsense-Tavern wrote:

Christ the Redeemer wrote:Build an academy for young players and coaches, import coaching techniques from technically and tactically superior countries like Brazil, Germany, Holland, Argentina, halve the prices at Wembley to enable proper fans to get there and support the team, sack the entire FA except Brooking, change the transfer regulations to enable smaller clubs to hang onto their promising youngsters so they don't all end up at 8 clubs from which only half a dozen will actually get the games they need to develop.

Quotas are the thickest idea I've ever heard of. It's just positive discrimination by another name...

plus get 10 year olds playing on smaller pitches

That'd be a start.

Also, sack any coaches who focuses entirely on athletic ability or slags off the players who can actually run with and pass the ball.

All the above already happens with academies, and has been for a decade or so.

I don't believe you, because if anything the technical quality of English players has degraded over that period.

The 1990s team was probably the best we've had technically.

really?
Parker average at best
Walker - technically average
Butcher - typical british CD
Wright - good by english standards but not great
Pearce - not too bad but not great
Platt - just above average
Gazza - superb technically (what a wasted talent)
Linekar average
Beardsley good
Barnes - good by english standards but not great
McMahon- typical english CM

The-Frankinsense-Tavern wrote:really?
Parker average at best
Walker - technically average
Butcher - typical british CD
Wright - good by english standards but not great
Pearce - not too bad but not great
Platt - just above average
Gazza - superb technically (what a wasted talent)
Linekar average
Beardsley good
Barnes - good by english standards but not great
McMahon- typical english CM

Beardsley was above good.

You missed out Waddle as well.

The-Frankinsense-Tavern wrote:really?
Parker average at best
Walker - technically average
Butcher - typical british CD
Wright - good by english standards but not great
Pearce - not too bad but not great
Platt - just above average
Gazza - superb technically (what a wasted talent)
Linekar average
Beardsley good
Barnes - good by english standards but not great
McMahon- typical english CM

I'd say Barnes was good technically by anyones standars.
Also, you've forgotten Waddle whowas extremely giften technically.
Then compare this to the england team last night...

Frank, the prem isnt an average league, the players arent that bad.

A big problem is that there are a handful of big name players (Lampard & Gerrard) who are pretty much guaranteed a game no matter how badly they play. The new coach needs to pick players on merit, he needs to gell some ball retainers in midfield and build the team around Rooney.

there's only one real difference between that 1990 side and the current one - Gazza. Ok two linekar was nealry always fit, owen hardly ever is.

Have to think about the established players of the team (if we are talking about how to improve the team).
Starting with gk to the strikers are they good enough or consistent enough to be mainstays if not they can stay at home.
Dont think the defence is the problem ,
Micah -Rio-Terry-Cole
is good enough but what if any of these get injured , the immediate replacement are all injury prone
Gary--Woodgate--King---Bridge

So comes the 3rd choice
P. Neville---Lescott--Campbell(he is finished after last night though)---Shorey

Is that good enough backup(leaving Shorey aside) sorry but England have a good first team defence but a very weak backup.

The problems in midfield and attack are for all to see ,
Has J Cole , Gerrard , Lampard , SWP done enough(or anything ) to be given a place , no is the answer never minding their individual quality so change it with who ,
Bentley---Barry----Hargy----Young and perhaps Carrick(who has done anything at the world stage either but people like me would argue that England never played to his strengths) , now the question arises is that good enough , destructive enough , creative enough?

Attack
Its high time to pick Agbonlahor I think what has Defoe done to even warrant his selection , Crouch should be there in the squad or starter , Rooney perhaps but he has been poor for England as well , then who who's the fourth striker Bent ? Andy? they all look a bit hopeless.

Coming to GK I think Carson maded two errors last night one was the goal ofcourse the other was turning the ball straight to a Croat rather clearing it out which was a weakish shot.
He looks a great shot stopper but sorry he got all the fragilites of Robbo or James.
Green time perhaps.
Big issues for a new man coming in.