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Since 1888
Machiavel
Pierre Littbarski
EMP
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    Rotterdam Trip

    EMP
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    Post by EMP Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:56 pm

    Well I've just got back and wanderlust hs hit again! I'm off to Rotterdam next week for the rest of the year. I plan to take in plenty of football while there including a Rotterdam derby. Will be seeing Feyenoord v Sparta for definite and most likely Sparta v NAc and Sparta v Groningen as well. Hoping to see Excelsior v Ajax and another Excelsior match that escapes me for the moment, so I would appreciate any tips from Dutch posters in particular on who to look out for.

    I heard that Gio van Bronckhorst is South Molluccan. Is that true and if so, are there any others playing in Holland?
    Pierre Littbarski
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:01 pm

    EMP wrote:I heard that Gio van Bronckhorst is South Molluccan. Is that true and if so, are there any others playing in Holland?

    Dutch/Italian/Thai I thought scratch
    Machiavel
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:06 pm

    Before Fey, watch out for Bruins (if he plays)
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    Post by Since 1888 Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:45 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    EMP wrote:I heard that Gio van Bronckhorst is South Molluccan. Is that true and if so, are there any others playing in Holland?

    Dutch/Italian/Thai I thought scratch

    Naah, he is South Molluccan, ex-colony of Holland. First Molluccan ever to captain the Dutch side.
    EMP
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    Post by EMP Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:49 pm

    Have any other South Molluccans played for Holland? If so who? Also, who scouted him? Wouldn't have thought it would be the first place to look, or was he based in Holland already?
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    Post by Since 1888 Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:52 pm

    Pretty sure he was based in Holland already, lots of history around it but to summarise, lots of Moluccan people live in Holland, think we have some other ones also but that was before my time.
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    Post by EMP Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:53 pm

    Okay thanks.
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    Post by Fey Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:27 am

    Bruins is out for the rest of the year most likely. But you will see De Guzman, Sahin, Gio, Makaay and all the others..and its a home game..which means we will win Very Happy
    forza_rossi
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    Post by forza_rossi Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:56 am

    Watch out for fey ok
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:25 am

    EMP wrote:Have any other South Molluccans played for Holland? If so who? Also, who scouted him? Wouldn't have thought it would be the first place to look, or was he based in Holland already?
    Gio started playing for Feyenord aged 7. Most Moluccans came to Holland after Indonesia became indepent in 1948. So did Gio's family.

    Gio isn't the only Moluccan who played for Holland. Simon Tahamata, a winger, who played for Ajax & Feyenoord was the first Moluccan to play for Holland (22 caps 2 goals). Tahamata was a joy to watch a real old skool dribbler.

    A very young Tahamata scoring for Ajax:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7DZPdpJ1ys

    At Feyenoord Tahamata once pwned Gullit in a way he has never been... PSV were very irritating that season, they celebrated goals by pretending to be Aussie Rule footbaal 'goal judges' (making the same gesture). Gullit had just betrayed Feyenoord by going to PSV. Simon robbed Gullit of the ball in front of the Curva Nord, put his foot on the ball & bent forward to the crowd like an actor after a play. Feyenoord trashed PSv that match.


    By the way The Chairman/Boss or whatever they call him of the Hell's Angels in Holland is a Moluccan too.
    Fey
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    Post by Fey Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:50 am

    forza_rossi wrote:Watch out for fey ok

    It's our first tourist in years...we won't be mugging him..at least not immediately. <Ale>
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    Post by Machiavel Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:57 am

    I visited Rotterdam for the first time last year; the air is difficult to breathe. The shopping area is real nice.
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    Post by Since 1888 Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:07 pm

    johan the baptist wrote:I visited Rotterdam for the first time last year; the air is difficult to breathe. The shopping area is real nice.

    Not any worse than Amsterdam though.
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    Post by Machiavel Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:09 pm

    Since 1888 wrote:
    johan the baptist wrote:I visited Rotterdam for the first time last year; the air is difficult to breathe. The shopping area is real nice.

    Not any worse than Amsterdam though.

    The air or the Shopping area?

    (the air was a Subtle joke, Simpson humour)
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:16 pm

    Can truly recommend the watertaxi to tourists.

    Rotterdam Trip Wt_1

    If I have friends coming over to watch a Feyenoord game, I always go to the stadium by watertaxi. You'll need to reserve (+31-(0)104030303) for a matchday (and make sure you allow for a little delay)

    http://www.watertaxirotterdam.nl/english/index.html

    Great trip across the river (wonderful view of the city) & they bring you very close to the stadium.
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:25 pm

    EMP wrote:Have any other South Molluccans played for Holland? If so who? Also, who scouted him? Wouldn't have thought it would be the first place to look, or was he based in Holland already?

    It's one of the darkest pages in our history and we are hardly taught anything about it in our schools : the colonisation of Indonesia, their war for indepedence and our "politionele aktie" (going to war, trying to beat the insurrection down....calling it a "policing activity"). The part of the Moluccans in all of that has been completely overlooked... Embarassed

    I don't know exactly what happened (because no one talks about this giant of a skeleton in our closet), but I have been told (by my parents) that we made a deal with the Moluccans : they would join in our army in exchange for the promise that the Netherlands would actively support the forming of an independant Moluccan state.

    A lot of them died fighting for the Dutch cause in Indonesia and when it was time for the Dutch government to repay that debt we reneged on it...

    That's why a lot of them live in the Netherlands, they're refugees who'll probably never be able to return to the country they still think of has home (3 generations later).

    Scouring the web I can't find much information about it, this is the closest I got :

    http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cove/4232/9911/INA-maluku-9910.html

    The Dutch are hugely indebted to Moluccan soldiers, whom they recruited as the core of their colonial army a century ago. Moluccan soldiers fought alongside the Dutch against Indonesia during a 1945-1949 battle for independence, which Indonesia eventually won. In 1950, the Moluccans rose against the new Jakarta-based government in a failed attempt to proclaim the Republic of the South Moluccas. They were an independent state for nearly nine months. Thousands of RMS soldiers fled to the Netherlands for fear of repercussions, and the Dutch now stand accused of abandoning them.

    "The soldiers and their families were taken to former concentration camps by the Dutch government under the promise they would return to a free Molucca after six months," said the BP's Tuparia. But Indonesia'a annexation of the spice islands was already a fact and many Moluccans settled in Dutch villages outside the camps in the Netherlands. Most of them live there to this day.

    In 1975, in a dramatic attempt to draw attention to their separatist cause, six young RMS activists ambushed a train in the Netherlands on December 2 and took hostages. Three hijackers were killed and three have completed their jail sentences for the incident, which lasted nearly two weeks. The tragedy highlighted the need for dialogue and so the Moluccans in the Netherlands set up the IWM, a body representing the various parties involved in the Moluccas. Their hopes for the islands' future are modest.

    "There's zero chance RMS will gain power (on the Moluccas). We are just asking for a clear standpoint from the Dutch government out of courtesy for the first generation," said IWM's Christine Nanlohy. The group's priority is the welfare and safety of the people on the Moluccas, and it is trying to help the people there by lobbying for economic and humanitarian aid, she said.

    "So far the Dutch role regarding the situation on the Moluccas has been rather timid," she said.
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    Post by SuperMario Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:31 pm

    My bro-in-law is Moluccan.
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    Post by Since 1888 Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:42 pm

    Axe, you are right, black chapter. But it's bullshit it isn't been teached, it was a graduation subject last year, and this year also. Where you go really into depth about the whole colonisation history of Holland.
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    Post by Axeslammer Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:46 pm

    Since 1888 wrote:Axe, you are right, black chapter. But it's bullshit it isn't been teached, it was a graduation subject last year, and this year also. Where you go really into depth about the whole colonisation history of Holland.

    Most people get just 4 years of history, they only graduate in serious subjects Wink

    The entire "politionele aktie" was covered in 15 minutes in my time. I didn't graduate in history (maths, science, chem, dutch, english, economics and latin) as did (didn't ?) a majority.
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    Post by Since 1888 Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:09 pm

    Angelslammer wrote:
    Since 1888 wrote:Axe, you are right, black chapter. But it's bullshit it isn't been teached, it was a graduation subject last year, and this year also. Where you go really into depth about the whole colonisation history of Holland.

    Most people get just 4 years of history, they only graduate in serious subjects Wink

    The entire "politionele aktie" was covered in 15 minutes in my time. I didn't graduate in history (maths, science, chem, dutch, english, economics and latin) as did (didn't ?) a majority.

    I don't know Axe old man what they did in your time. But the majority takes history mostly because nature science is a pain in the ass. ok Or, because I'm to lazy to make an effort in it. But the main reason is that I suck in these subjects.
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    Post by EMP Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:05 am

    If any Euroboard posters are in Rotterdam from 21st onwards and fancy meeting up for a drink let me know. Will be there until New Years Day. And thanks for history lesson Most interesting. Was the Moluccan saga round the time of Bung Karno?
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    Post by Since 1888 Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:27 am

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_National_Revolution For extra info on that saga.

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